Can two walk together unless they are agreed?

[Guest Butero]

Please understand, this is just my opinion.

It would never work. The United States as a whole is not as strong as it once was. For the most part we're riding on the coattails of our reputation. Our military as it is right now is stretched thin and to break that up would be suicide. We are at war with islam and to have a country broken up and scattered around in bits and pieces is just inviting them to have a go at us. China is another country that needs to be considered. It's only a matter of time before they start calling in their markers. Once the country is weakened by the break up, what's to stop them from just stepping in and taking over? I could go on but I'd only be repeating myself.

The economy is something else that needs to be considered.

We are in way over our heads and it is only by the grace of God that we are still a free nation. I think the Lord is slowly lifting His hand from this country and we should cherish the time we have left, because it will not always be like this.

Just my opinion.

That sounds like a go down with the ship mentality?

[Bold Believer]

With your comments regarding Islam, I would think that the red states (or Free States as Leonard calls them) would send Muslims packing. Likewise with illegal aliens. Against the Constitution? Not at all. There is nothing Constitutionally that says we must keep the members of a hostile religion dedicated to the destruction of our way of life within our borders, and the illegal thing speaks for itself. I L L E G A L. As in against the law. Out your hiney goes. OR...if you want to stay, you learn English, you assimilate into the culture and if you are eligible, you serve 4 years in the military to gain your citizenship.

I think everyone can agree that there are sleeper cells located all over this country. How would you stop one of your isolated pieces of the country from being infiltrated by terrorists? How long do you think people will put up with suicide bombers before they say enough is enough and want things back the way they were?

Just because you tell someone to leave doesn't mean they're going to leave. If you need an example, look at Mexico. And once the division of the country is complete, are you assuming that everyone will automatically become law abiding citizens?

What about the street gangs? Many of them are made up of illegal aliens. We can't handle them now, how are they going to be dealt with?

And what about...

Economically..no free rides. NO welfare. NO Social Security. A National Disability Insurance Plan, which would be optional (if you chose it, deductions would be made from your paycheck to the PRIVATE insurance carrier of your choice). Gold standard, no fiat money. No national income tax. Period. Only state taxes. No standing army. Just like the Constitution says. No prison system; commit a capital crime, you're executed. Commit a lesser crime, you pay restitution until the victim is satisfied. Don't have the money you say? It's automatically deducted from your paycheck, jack. Oh...no credit cards. You haven't the money, you don't buy it, or you make installment payments. And should you spend yourself into the poorhouse, a court-appointed bank would supervise your monies until you were out of debt, but for no longer than seven years. At the end of seven years, any remaining debt would be forgiven, just as Scripture says.

You're working under the assumption that every able bodied individual is going to be employed. Where are these jobs coming from? What happens to the people who are unable to work? With the no free ride policy, what happens to an individual when they become to old or sick to work? Are they just taken out into some field and shot?

No prisons. What happens to the thousands who are sitting behind bars at the time of the break up? Not everyone sitting in jail is there for a capital offense.

No standing army. How's that going to work? It would seem to me that if you're going to enforce all these laws, you're going to need an army. The only way your plan would work is if it became a military state. Rule with an iron fist. Eliminate the old, the weak, the disabled and put everyone else into forced labor....including the children.

And then there's....

The PEOPLE will make the jobs. How did we do it when the country was first formed? Jobs didn't just pop up out of nowhere. Needed things were eventually provided by those with the means to provide them. The disabled are not free riders. It would be the primary duty of their family to care for them. If they had no family, then the church would need to step in. Back to the way things used to be. Some things would have to be imported, but with manufacturing facilities already built in the Free States as well as the Former United States, it will be far simpler than it was in the 1700s.

There would need to be a judicial review of those currently incarcerated. Some whose offenses are relatively minor would be released. Violent death row offenders would be executed. Drug dealers executed or deported. No one said it would easy. There would still be police forces (local and state) operating to enforce laws on the book. The change would come at arraignment. Violent offenders would be held. All others would be arraigned and given restitution sentences for things like robbery, etc. IF they "have no money" (c'mon we all know criminals have money somewhere or can GET it) then it comes from their next of kin. If they have no next of kin, then they go to labor farms to perform vital services until the restitution is made from the pay they receive. They will be fed and housed, but no more stacking people in jails 24/7 for them to become better criminals. Likewise, the homeless can go to these same camps, so minor-offense crime and homelessness can be dealt with in one fell swoop. Ask your parents or grandparents about the CCC. It would be similar to that. A skill can be learned there.

The US Army and all of our standing military forces are technically unconstitutional. We were never supposed to have a standing army. We operated on the militia system. What we do is bring those people home from wherever, and once they've made their decision which country they want to live in, the Free States would take over the armories in the state and store all of the heavy weapons there. The former military men could then go back to civilian life. Some units would be needed to guard the armories and inventory weaponry and maintain aircraft and vehicles, but the majority of the units could be returned. Other units would be assigned to Border Security.

Street gangs are basically punks. Dealing with them is very simple: issue an order to police, military and armed citizens that any street gangs are to be disarmed and sent home. If they resist: SHOOT THEM. Anyone desiring to get out of a street gang may report to a labor camp for three hots and a cot and skills training.

I believe that it could be done. Furthermore, I believe that at least some Americans have the will to make it work. The current system is not working, that's for sure and we need to change it. What better way than letting liberalism go one way and freedom the other?

[other one]

some of you are getting plum scary to read.

[MorningGlory]

The PEOPLE will make the jobs. How did we do it when the country was first formed? Jobs didn't just pop up out of nowhere. Needed things were eventually provided by those with the means to provide them. The disabled are not free riders. It would be the primary duty of their family to care for them. If they had no family, then the church would need to step in. Back to the way things used to be. Some things would have to be imported, but with manufacturing facilities already built in the Free States as well as the Former United States, it will be far simpler than it was in the 1700s.

There would need to be a judicial review of those currently incarcerated. Some whose offenses are relatively minor would be released. Violent death row offenders would be executed. Drug dealers executed or deported. No one said it would easy. There would still be police forces (local and state) operating to enforce laws on the book. The change would come at arraignment. Violent offenders would be held. All others would be arraigned and given restitution sentences for things like robbery, etc. IF they "have no money" (c'mon we all know criminals have money somewhere or can GET it) then it comes from their next of kin. If they have no next of kin, then they go to labor farms to perform vital services until the restitution is made from the pay they receive. They will be fed and housed, but no more stacking people in jails 24/7 for them to become better criminals. Likewise, the homeless can go to these same camps, so minor-offense crime and homelessness can be dealt with in one fell swoop. Ask your parents or grandparents about the CCC. It would be similar to that. A skill can be learned there.

The US Army and all of our standing military forces are technically unconstitutional. We were never supposed to have a standing army. We operated on the militia system. What we do is bring those people home from wherever, and once they've made their decision which country they want to live in, the Free States would take over the armories in the state and store all of the heavy weapons there. The former military men could then go back to civilian life. Some units would be needed to guard the armories and inventory weaponry and maintain aircraft and vehicles, but the majority of the units could be returned. Other units would be assigned to Border Security.

Street gangs are basically punks. Dealing with them is very simple: issue an order to police, military and armed citizens that any street gangs are to be disarmed and sent home. If they resist: SHOOT THEM. Anyone desiring to get out of a street gang may report to a labor camp for three hots and a cot and skills training.

I believe that it could be done. Furthermore, I believe that at least some Americans have the will to make it work. The current system is not working, that's for sure and we need to change it. What better way than letting liberalism go one way and freedom the other?

Who did you study under, B.B., Lenin or Stalin?

[Guest man]

You're working under the assumption that every able bodied individual is going to be employed. Where are these jobs coming from? What happens to the people who are unable to work? With the no free ride policy, what happens to an individual when they become to old or sick to work? Are they just taken out into some field and shot?

The PEOPLE will make the jobs. How did we do it when the country was first formed? Jobs didn't just pop up out of nowhere. Needed things were eventually provided by those with the means to provide them. The disabled are not free riders. It would be the primary duty of their family to care for them. If they had no family, then the church would need to step in. Back to the way things used to be. Some things would have to be imported, but with manufacturing facilities already built in the Free States as well as the Former United States, it will be far simpler than it was in the 1700s.

When the country was first formed, they weren't working with a sitting population of 225 million people. Add to that a population of approx. 15 million illegal aliens. Let's assume the country will be split right down the middle. That's still 120 million people.

If it's so easy for the people to make jobs, why can't that be done right now? You do realize that these jobs will have to be available at the time of the break up or your new society will be thrown into chaos. Where's the money coming from to create these jobs?

Where's the church going to get the resources to care for those who can't care for themselves? There's alot of homeless people out there. Does the church care for them also? If so, where's the money coming from?

There are people who are receiving social security and disability payments. People who are living on their own and are not a burden to society. What happens to those people when their payments stop? What about retired military personnel? When their contracts are no longer honored, what do you suppose they're going to do?

Back to the way things used to be.

That would be nice if we didn't have to deal with reality.

[Guest man]

I could easily see this country split into three nations. From Maryland to Maine could be one country. I would simply call the entire nation New England. It could possibly include the top portion of Ohio and include Minnesota, Michigan and Wisconsin, should the people be more in line with socialism than freedom? Then there could be a nation that included California, Oregon, Washington state and Hawaii. I would simply call it Utopia, but they can call it whatever they like. Then the rest of the country could form the new Free America.

What happens to the people who don't want to live in the "New Free America" or the other 2 countries?

What happens to the people who have assets in one country and live in another when the break up occurs?

[Bold Believer]

If you don't think secession will work, as so many of you are saying, can we continue on the path we're currently on without a massive economic collapse? I certainly don't see it.

And Man, I am one of those on disability. If I didn't scrap aluminum and steel I'd never make it. I can't live on disability NOW unless I do this. The $100-200 extra dollars a month I make doing it helps get me through. There has not been an increase in two years (even though Congress has voted themselves raises). Were it not for friends who save aluminum for me, I wouldn't be able to gather enough to make it month to month on my own, I'd tire too quickly.

[MorningGlory]

If you don't think secession will work, as so many of you are saying, can we continue on the path we're currently on without a massive economic collapse? I certainly don't see it.

I don't see it either, B.B. You're right about the huge problems but why not fix the country we have instead of breaking it? As in getting rid of our government and starting over with a new one. Btw, I have been FOR secession until just recently.

And Man, I am one of those on disability. If I didn't scrap aluminum and steel I'd never make it. I can't live on disability NOW unless I do this. The $100-200 extra dollars a month I make doing it helps get me through. There has not been an increase in two years (even though Congress has voted themselves raises). Were it not for friends who save aluminum for me, I wouldn't be able to gather enough to make it month to month on my own, I'd tire too quickly.

Oh that just reeks! Those puffed up bags of hot air get a pay raise and the disabled don't? I'm sorry that our government is not doing it's job for you, B.B. I will pray that this situation is rectified.

[childeye]

It's as obvious as the nose on our collective faces that the red states and blue states agree on little or nothing. With the United States piling up a 14.5 trillion dollar PLUS deficit, is it time for the common sense states to tell Washington goodbye? It wouldn't be a bloody conflict as it was in 1861, I think it could be done peacefully. Question is: would it work? Could the seceding states work together to form a new country based upon the original pattern of our Founding Fathers? What would it take? Would Washington try to interfere again and turn something peacefully intended into a bloody war? Would it be a good idea?

Opinions please, and be serious.

With all due respect, I beseech your common sense. The answer of whether two can walk together having opposing faiths is no. To presume that red states and blue states can be applied to this is not sound use of scripture. No one wants to be in debt, to that we can all agree. Frivolous spending is unwise use of funds, to that we can agree. Corruption and greed exist even at state levels. We can all agree. There is a kingdom that will one day rule on earth that is the eternal government of God. Can we agree? There will be corruption and greed until His Kingdom comes on earth to reign. Can we agree? The good news is good news to the poor and oppressed but not to the rich. Agreed? The early church shared all things as common and you would not find a wealthy man breaking bread with a brother who had nothing. Agreed? God sees all and He will deliver proper judgment, meanwhile we must bear our crosses, pray for our enemies and return good for evil that our Godly love not die. One cannot serve money and God. So I submit that there are spiritual elements in this world acting through men that seek to mislead and cause division for ungodly purpose. We are not appointed to seperate the wheat from the tares lest in self righteousness we hurt the innocent. Was not Christ crucified by the self-righteous authority figures both secular and religious. Let us not be so proud to think we are the good guys whether you are red or blue, for this is in fact carnal mindedness. I'm sorry if this offends anybody, or be offended if you must for Christ was offensive to many.

[Guest man]

If you don't think secession will work, as so many of you are saying, can we continue on the path we're currently on without a massive economic collapse? I certainly don't see it.

Probably not. But I don't see how throwing a country into turmoil is going to make it any better either.

And Man, I am one of those on disability. If I didn't scrap aluminum and steel I'd never make it. I can't live on disability NOW unless I do this. The $100-200 extra dollars a month I make doing it helps get me through. There has not been an increase in two years (even though Congress has voted themselves raises). Were it not for friends who save aluminum for me, I wouldn't be able to gather enough to make it month to month on my own, I'd tire too quickly.

Ok, now take your case and multiply it by many thousands. Add to that the disabled who aren't receiving disability payments. (they do exist) Now add in the elderly and the mentally handicapped who have no one to care for them.

Where is the church going to receive the resources to care for these people if there are no free rides?