death: a sneak peak into the afterlife?

[Openly Curious]

1 John 3

2 Beloved, now we are children of God; and it has not yet been revealed what we shall be, but we know that when He is revealed, we shall be like Him, for we shall see Him as He is.

By the way you use this verse, one would think women will have beards.

The natural mind comprehendeth not the mind of the Spirit.

Spot on man we are the children of God right now on this earth but it hasn't been made known to us what we are going to be but whenever the Lord comes in the clouds and we are caught up to be with him we are going to be like him. Meaning that we will have a resurrected glorified body as this mortality shall put on immortality as we too shall be like Christ who made it possible for us also to triump over death hell and the grave and it is in this way we shall be like him resurrected in a glorified body that shall never see death again as death will be swallowed up in victory the last enemy we'll have to face.

The only way to get to the afterlife will be through death as it is appointed once for man to die after that the resurrection. Absolutely no returning back after death to tell what is in heaven or of the horrors of hell. The claim that God took them to heaven or hell and brought them back again is not scriptural. Everlasting life we shall live out forever in a glorified body with Christ in all of His glory.

Just a question for you OC. You state that God taking someone to heaven or hell and bringing them back is not scriptural. What do you say concerning the Apostle Paul? Is it your contention that it is just not Biblical when it comes to after death experiences?

Hey Butero, ( question # 1 ) According to the apostle Paul in 2 corinthians 12:2-5 he said, he once knew a man above fourteen years ago who was caught up to the third heaven whether "in" the body or "out" of the body "he couldn't tell." Again a second time Paul said while being caught up to paradise this man had "heard" things that were unlawful not possible for him to speak whether in or out of his body only God knew. This man being spoken of was "in Christ." the words "caught up" could mean to be taken, resurrected from the dead, changed from one state to another. I do believe personally this man was on the verge of death while having this experience. This man was in the Spirit caught up like the examples of Ezekiel and John on the isle of Patmos.

The Spirit came to Ezekiel and took him by the hair of his head and carried him away "in the Spirit" for he was not dead physically but was in the Spirit being shown visions and dreams that the Lord was making known to him. Then you had John banished to the isle of Patmos who was taken "in the Spirit" and shown things as the angel of the Lord then would make known to him the things he saw in the visions as instructed by God. Then John was instructed by God to write those things down in a book and send a copy out to the seven churches in Asia which is known as the book of Revelation. John was not dead in his body but was in the Spirit.

In 2 corinthians 11:16-33 you can read of apostle Paul telling of the things he suffered for the sake of the gospel, five different times the Jews gave him 39 strips, the Jews beat him with rods three times, once he was stoned and left for dead, shipwrecked three times, had to spend a night and a day in the deep, in perils of false brethren, perils of the city among other things as he had the cares of the churches upon him. Paul told the corinthians if he had needs to glory he then would glory in the things that concerned his infirmities. And he said unto me, "My grace is sufficent for thee: for my strenghth is made perfect in weakness" 2 cor.12:9

2 corinthians 12:1- 5 Paul said that he would go on to visions and revelations of the Lord and it was expedient for him to glory. Then the Apostle Paul says he knew a man "in Christ" fourteen years ago whether that man was in the Spirit or not he couldn't tell but only God did and says that two times back to back. The man had be caught up to the third heaven (vs. 2) the "third heaven" was "paradise" (vs. 4) Whenever this man was caught up he heard unspeakable words, which was not lawful or possible for a man to speak..

The apostle Paul said 2 cor 11:30 & 12:5 he would glory in such a one who had been caught up to paradise in the Spirit having heard unspeakable words that was not possible for a man to utter as it was not lawful. Yet for himself apostle Paul said if he had to glory he would glory only in the things concerning his infirmities. Because in the weakness of Paul the strength of Christ was strong made perfect mature in his weakness working in the Spirit but he himself would glory in his infirmities so that the power of God in Christ would work in his Spirit. We are not to glory in our flesh but are to give all the glory to God who set us free from the flesh to walk in the Spirit.

Evidence in the Word suggest things are revealed to us by the Spirit on this side of heaven and we only know in part and cannot go outside of that part given to us. When near death experience are foretold and are unscriptural going against the Word we have to wise up and turn away our ears. There is ample enough knowledge of heaven and hell in the Word where we do not have to add things into the message of the gospel to be affective in warning people of eternal damnation to the invitation to come to Christ and buy bread and wine without price as the Spirit calleth. come and dine. Again we know in part and can only prophesy from out of that part.

There are no examples of near death experience in the Word of God where one dies and comes back with a message or vision etc., of the after life as there should be but are not to my knowledge. Some will bring up Lazurus but he died and his body was returning back to the dust in which he came in the the grave. Martha told Jesus if he would have came when he was told Lazurus was sick he would still be alive. I believe there are enough examples in the Word to show that after death the righteous was then held in paridise with Abraham among other of the saints who had died before the resurrection of Christ. Jesus set those in paradise free when he came up from the grave those saints came up with him..

Lazurus was a word picture in how Christ was to go to the grave and defeat death hell and the grave as it could not hold him capttive. Martha told Jesus when he got there that by now he stinketh. But Jesus called for Lazurus to come forth and he came out of the tomb still having his grave clothes on. Lazurus had no after death experience to tell when he came out of his grave. But this was being done by Jesus in order to show them that he also would die and then be resurrectied. You can read in the Word where this did happen but Jesus came out not bound in his grave clothes as they were found in the tomb nice and neat never to die again as Lazurus had to die twice because Satan held the keys to death hell and the grave but since Jesus triumped over Satan he now has those keys.

question # 2) I do not not think I have a contention on the matter it is that from my study of the Word near death or afterlife experiences are not scriptural. They are not validated as being true from a biblical stand point which is the view point I accept as true. But just because I have a view point that may be different from others does in no way make me contentious in any way..........................blessings

[Guest SDGS]

I don't know scripture. I cannot say, or even guess, if those who say these things are right or not.

What bothered me with this particular kid's story was his insistence that he saw the nail marks in Jesus' hands, after his father pressed him for months about "markers". They didn't put nails in the hands. Crucifixion was the used method of execution, and the nails were driven into the wrist, not hands.

[~Shalhevet~]

Here ~Shalhevet~

What is your impression of this testimony?

Book claims heaven is real

Honestly, I think these people are deceived. It has no scriptural foundation.

[Littlelambseativy]

Lazarus was in Paradise and could see Hades where the rich man across the chasm.

The first resurrection was Jesus - He is the first fruits. The 2nd will be at the trumpet sound. The Bible speaks of no other, other than when Jesus rose from the dead, the graves were opened. There are many stories of people dying and going to heaven. I have read Maurice Rawling' Beyond Death's Door, a research into this phenomenon. He was a physician and asked what people saw after they awakened from a near death experience. Fascinating, but and far more credible than Colin Butero's account. Still I would take it with a grain of salt. If you find it comforting it is one thing, but I would still go by what the Bible says and be ready for heaven at any time.

[goldust59]

As I have posted in other threads on this subject, my Mother had this experience. None of my family believed in it til then either. I will say that she did not need proof that heaven existed (nor did most of the family) since she believed that from an early age. I do not know why this happened to her but she was no longer afraid of death afterward.

The only scripture I have found that might back this experience was already quoted in this thread about Paul being caught up to third heaven.

[Matthitjah]

Re 4:1

¶ After this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up here, and I will show you things which must be hereafter.

Re 4:2

And immediately I was in the spirit; and, behold, a throne was set in heaven, and one sat on the throne.

Was it an act of a demon that brought John, in the Spirit, to heaven and showed him the things that must come to pass?

Did John see into heaven?

When the heavens opened and Stephen saw Jesus standing at the right hand of God was this to be discounted? Was this a glimpse into heaven?

When the Disciples saw Jesus Transfigured in Glory did they not see a glimpse of heaven?

peace,

Dave

[nebula]

There are two things that still bother me and have not been answered.

1. Why does having a near death experience have to be about proof or faith?

If spiritual experiences are discounted because they negate faith, what do you make of Paul seeing Jesus on the Road to Damascus?

What of Paul seeing a man enter Heaven?

What of John seeing Heaven?

2. Jesus raised people from the dead. What do you suppose happened to them in between death and being brought back?

[Matthitjah]

There are two things that still bother me and have not been answered.

1. Why does having a near death experience have to be about proof or faith?

If spiritual experiences are discounted because they negate faith, what do you make of Paul seeing Jesus on the Road to Damascus?

What of Paul seeing a man enter Heaven?

What of John seeing Heaven?

2. Jesus raised people from the dead. What do you suppose happened to them in between death and being brought back?

Exactly sis.

Here's the thing though. One would have to be an adherent of soul sleep to make the argument that when Lazarus died and was dead for three days that he merely was sleeping and saw nothing. We have no record of his saying anything in the Word about his experience, but boy would I have liked to have been in the room afterwards to discuss it with him.

Here we see an example of his testimony and of the testimony of Christ in his life;

Joh 12:9

Many people of the Jews therefore knew that he was there: and they came not for Jesus' sake only, but that they might see Lazarus also, whom he had raised from the dead.

We also know this;

Re 12:11

And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.

Apparently there was something about Lazaruses testimony that made folks come to Faith.

The whole of the Word of God is a glimpse into heaven and a testimony of our blessed Hope. We are to be heaven focused.

I'm not quite getting why folks are upset about someone getting a glimpse of heaven.

Peace,

Dave

[ErinCP]

I personaly know a man, David, who was in a motorcycle accident, pronounced dead at the hospital, and was placed in a body bag and sent to the mourge. He was an athiest. During the night a watchmen of some sort walked by his body bag and saw that the lock on the zipper was released and the zipper was open a few inches. the man checked only to find he David was breathing. DAVID CLAIMS HE WAS TAKEN OUT OF HIS BODY BY jesus and directed to above the hospital roof where he saw a red high heel. after numerous surgeries he lived to tell his story to a dr. out of couriosity the dr sent someone up to the roo who retuned with a red high heel. David is now a repentful disciple of the Lord and has emense faith despite his loss of one ey and partial use of his left side.

[enoob57]

I believe the greatest council upon this curiosity is that of our father Abraham-

Luke 16:27-31

27 "Then he said, 'I beg you therefore, father, that you would send him to my father's house, 28 for I have five brothers, that he may testify to them, lest they also come to this place of torment.' 29 Abraham said to him, 'They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.' 30 And he said, 'No, father Abraham; but if one goes to them from the dead, they will repent.' 31 But he said to him, 'If they do not hear Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded though one rise from the dead.'"

NKJV

The simplicity of this exceeds the greatest of minds for we were born in the system of learning through the corporeal... yet to get to God we are to go through Scripture by drinking in the jot and tittle and eating the bread of His presence bringing about faith which precedes the corporeal and exceeds the cosmos of now unto a new beginning... Rev 22

Think of the miracle that we truly set within - that of time- our existence is of the immediate which quickly passes out of our control into the histories and that which is coming unto us is but an instant in coming... the greater the focus upon the moment of presence of present between that which is past to that which is not yet come somehow we stand accountable and that is life in this shadow of light

1 Cor 13:12

12 For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.

KJV

Imagine the focus of the second that last for an eternity... Love Steven