[rollinTHUNDER]

Both in chapter five and 19 are clothed in white. Could these be the ones that are in Chapter five?

Im not sure exactly how the marriage of the Lamb Supper fits in. But as Candice say we may study the time line but not the actual timing events. There is nothing to me in my opinion of the verses as a pre trib Rapture though the Supper of the Lamb may raise a question. I still have to remember that Paul says we look into a mirror with a poor image and on that day we will be able to see things clearly. I will lean on the majority of Scriptures I know in comparison of the Mystery of the Supper of the Lamb. Im still leaning to a post Trib Rapture and return because it says those who are Dead in Christ first will be with him. Then they who are alive will be caught up with him. It all still sounds like a one event of Jesus return, a rapture, a resurrection all that very moment of a twinkling of an eye.

Hello BeartheCross,

Here is where the wedding supper of the Lamb comes into play. Notice it's right after the rapture also, and that Jesus will be dressed to serve His faithful servants that are ready when He comes.

Watchfulness

35 Be dressed ready for service and keep your lamps burning, 36 like servants waiting for their master to return from a wedding banquet, so that when he comes and knocks they can immediately open the door for him. 37 It will be good for those servants whose master finds them watching when he comes. Truly I tell you, he will dress himself to serve, will have them recline at the table and will come and wait on them. 38 It will be good for those servants whose master finds them ready, even if he comes in the middle of the night or toward daybreak. 39 But understand this: If the owner of the house had known at what hour the thief was coming, he would not have let his house be broken into. 40 You also must be ready, because the Son of Man will come at an hour when you do not expect him.

41 Peter asked, Lord, are you telling this parable to us, or to everyone?

42 The Lord answered, Who then is the faithful and wise manager, whom the master puts in charge of his servants to give them their food allowance at the proper time? 43 It will be good for that servant whom the master finds doing so when he returns. 44 Truly I tell you, he will put him in charge of all his possessions. 45 But suppose the servant says to himself, My master is taking a long time in coming, and he then begins to beat the other servants, both men and women, and to eat and drink and get drunk. 46 The master of that servant will come on a day when he does not expect him and at an hour he is not aware of. He will cut him to pieces and assign him a place with the unbelievers.

47 The servant who knows the masters will and does not get ready or does not do what the master wants will be beaten with many blows. 48 But the one who does not know and does things deserving punishment will be beaten with few blows. From everyone who has been given much, much will be demanded; and from the one who has been entrusted with much, much more will be asked. Luke 12:35-48

Post tribbers are correct in thinking that the rapture will occur after the tribulation, however, there's no such thing as a seven year tribulation in the Bible. That is a huge misconception. Remember, God is going to shorten those days for the sake of the elect at some unknown time (Matt.24). He is not going to shorten the alloted time of Daniel's 70th week, but He will put a stop to all of the nations that will be gathered against Jerusalem. So the tribulation is that time of trouble mentioned by Daniel, that no nation has ever seen and that would never be equalled (Armageddon). This is where God will glorify Himself to all nations in Ezek. 38. No one can know the day or hour, but this is when Christ will send his angels to gather His elect (rapture).

So we will be going through the tribulation, but not God's wrath. The only ones left on the earth for the wrath will be the sheep and goats that will be separated at the second coming, and the 1/3 remnant of Jews. The sheep are not raptured. They will enter into the millenium in their flesh and repopulate the earth along with the remnant. These are not the saints that will be returning with Christ to rule and reign for 1000 years. I 'm assuming you are post-trib. What say you?

[OneLight]

Well, we have come under the blood of Christ, right? And even though God protected them, they were still in the circumstance of the plagues which fell upon Egypt. They still suffered because of the judgments God brought upon Egypt.

I would be very interested for you to show me scripture that states the the Israeli people suffered because of the plagues God did to Egypt. You can start here in Exodus 7 and read through the plagues. These plagues were against Pharaoh and his servants, not Gods people. Exodus 7

As I said above, maybe not all of those who come to Him after the church is taken must die, but I don't know. I do know that it will be very, very hard for anyone who believes in Jesus as Lord and Savior to live during that time. But truthfully, it has been hard for so many of our brothers and sisters, throughout the history of the bride.

Still, what the rapture is, what it represents, is what is important. It is the effecting in our bodies of what has already happened to us in the Spirit. Our death in Christ is not symbolic, is not just something we believe, but an actual death with Him on the cross. As we receive Him, His death becomes ours, and so His life becomes ours. As He taught, the hour has come when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God, and those who hear shall live. Everyone who has received the Spirit of God has received the Spirit of adoption as a child of God. They are literally a born child of God, now? John wrote, "Now we are the children of God, and it does not as yet appear what we shall become; but when we see Him, we shall become just as He is."

All this to say that those who believe in the end, they too will be changed when they see Him. It is like our spirit knows what it is, knows what it is to become, but we are mostly unaware. And when we see Him, with these eyes, we are changed completely to be like Him, even in our bodies. His glory is such that this is just the natural result of our seeing Him as He is.

So, I believe that in that day, when the Father says to the Son, "Go, and receive your bride," that Jesus will descend into the clouds and call each of us by name, and as we look up at Him, we will become as He is, and rise up to join Him in the air, to be with Him forever. This event transcends the bounds of time, and He can call each of His as He needs to have them come to Him. But those who have slept in Christ we will not prevent, for they will be joined to their changed bodies before we are called to Him.

I am afraid of the results of the "Left behind" series. While the event is portrayed in a fairly accurate way, the reason it must be this way is not presented as it should have been. If the emphasis had been on the fact of our being alive in Him before the rapture, they would have done service to His body. "If then you have been raised up with Christ, keep seeking the things above, where Christ is, seated at the right hand of God. Set your mind on the things above, not on the things that are on earth. For you have died and your life is hidden with Christ in God. When Christ, who is our life, is revealed, then you also will be revealed with Him in glory." This is the rapture, the change in our bodies that makes us fit vessels for the glory that He wishes to bestow on us, and for the life that is ours in Him.

In Christ,

vic

How you write is hard to follow. I suggest that you do a search in the forums using the word "Rapture" and read the many hundred of posts about what has been said during the past year, on all sides of the timing and stances. The boards were changed last year and the search does not go past June of 2010. There is many scripture available to back up what people have said. Read with a mind that is set on learning. I thought about going back and grabbing some of my posts that are lengthy, but that would take away from the argument itself and the reason why I posted the answers I did.

[GlidingWings]

Hey Rolling. Well actually yeah I am a post trib believer now. I used to be a pre trib believer.

This started in 1997 when I read the John Hagee book The Coming of the Antichrist. I learned but questioned the pre trib back then. But after all the Left Behind talks and Tim La Hayes and Ed Hindson I was then a solid pre trib believer mostly because I believed what they said. I did not feel I had to do any of my own reading on this. That pre trib is agreeable to most Churches so why argue?

Well it happened at a certain forum I was at when several of the members did not care when bad stuff in the world happened. They kept saying that

[Guest]

A Few Thoughts

Gleaned Over The Years From Looking At The Imminent Rapture

There Are Two Resurrections

One Starts Up

With A Shout (Of Joy I Believe) For The Beloved

And A Thousand Years Later The Second Call Up But This One Includes The Eternally Damned

And While I Have Considered At Times Whether Or Not The First Resurrection Could Be Pre-Tribulation, Mid-Tribulation, Pre-Wrath Or Post-Tribulation

One Of The Things I Received Is A Heart-Wrenching Bone-Deep Knowledge That These Days Are Evil

And That Real Living Breathing Men And Woman Are Daily Spiraling Into Eternal Hell

And That Beloved, Just Breaks My Heart

However You Rowdy Jesus Kids Are Always A Delightful Blessing To This Old Man

And I Am So Thankful For These Times

We Have Together

On Battlefield

Earth

Be Blessed Beloved Of The KING

The LORD bless thee, and keep thee:

The LORD make his face shine upon thee, and be gracious unto thee:

The LORD lift up his countenance upon thee, and give thee peace.

And they shall put my name upon the children of Israel; and I will bless them.Numbers 6:24-27

Love, Your Brother Joe

AMEN, Joe!

[rollinTHUNDER]

Oops!

I hit the wrong button, and lost most of this post in the process. I deleted what was left.

[Guest]

I wonder how many of those who are engaged in the effort to convince pre-tribers that their belief is fouled have actually read the 3 discussions that are pinned in Eschatology? This topic gets so old, with the same ol' same ol' arguments put forth. Do us all a favor and read the three "In Defense of ....." postings. And don't tell me that if I don't want to read these types of posts that I don't have to. That may be true, but I read every post unless it goes on forever, then I just look for the kooky stuff or just delete them as they come. Enjoy your day.

[OneLight]

I wonder how many of those who are engaged in the effort to convince pre-tribers that their belief is fouled have actually read the 3 discussions that are pinned in Eschatology? This topic gets so old, with the same ol' same ol' arguments put forth. Do us all a favor and read the three "In Defense of ....." postings. And don't tell me that if I don't want to read these types of posts that I don't have to. That may be true, but I read every post unless it goes on forever, then I just look for the kooky stuff or just delete them as they come. Enjoy your day.

Brother, not only have I read these three threads, but I have done more. I have studied this, for my own understanding on this subject, since the 70's. As I had mentioned, and if you have read all the posts pertaining to this subject you would know, that I followed reverently the pre-trib doctrine until it all fell apart in the 80's. When the 80's came and went, and I was still here, I began to dig into scripture to find the truth, not to just uphold what I believed.

When people dig into scripture to just support their understanding, they are doing an injustice to scripture, themselves, and any other they bring their findings to. We are to be taught by His words. When we approach scripture with an open mind, much more will be opened up to us.

[rollinTHUNDER]

I wonder how many of those who are engaged in the effort to convince pre-tribers that their belief is fouled have actually read the 3 discussions that are pinned in Eschatology?

Hello Parker1,

It's been years, but once upon a time, I was a regular in those parts.

This topic gets so old, with the same ol' same ol' arguments put forth. Do us all a favor and read the three "In Defense of ....." postings.

Someone may gleen something from those threads, but I think you hit the nail on the head. It's the same ol' same ol', which makes me wonder why you are encouraging others to read them. There's nothing new in them, especially if you've already had your fill.

And don't tell me that if I don't want to read these types of posts that I don't have to.

You are definitely defensive of something here. Might you be a pre-tribber? If so, I don't have a problem with that, but I wouldn't take it so personal. All three of them are still only theories at this point. And all three of them have holes, some more than others, but I won't go there. Peace to you

[rollinTHUNDER]

Brother, not only have I read these three threads, but I have done more. I have studied this, for my own understanding on this subject, since the 70's.

Wow, OneLight, you're an elder! You might be twice as old as me in our new lives.

Your long study is very evident by the deeper questions you ask. I must admit that you really had me tempted in post #103. It's all I could do not to reply, even when I had the answer. The trouble is that's another part that's in my book. So maybe we can discuss that in the very near future. There are quite a few misconceptions that have really distorted the way we view things today.

When people dig into scripture to just support their understanding, they are doing an injustice to scripture, themselves, and any other they bring their findings to. We are to be taught by His words. When we approach scripture with an open mind, much more will be opened up to us.

Very true! But we've all probably stood in those shoes at one time or another. I know I have. Thank God for His patience with us in our walk.

[other one]

is may 21 2011 project blue beam? nah

That's an interesting thought.