trinity explained

[JohnD]

As to my method of presentation...

How about I use the Mary Poppins approach (spoonful of sugar)?

And make everything a question?

Well then folks'll accuse me of talking down to them like wittle babies. 

 

[Pudgenik]

On 3/30/2013 at 6:39 PM, SonofLight said:

The Truth is there is no Trinity; this has been a doctrine that has infiltrated the church since 325 AD in the Council of Nicea. Some of the church fathers of old like Tertullian brought this heresy into the church till they had to have a council of the bishops to discuss the creed. Which was later indoctrinated into the Apostles Creed. God is Spirit and not flesh however he dwelt in the fullness of Christ bodily making Jesus Emanuelle God with us. Jesus is his one and only begotten Son not adopted like we are. Jesus is the only person in the Godhead and the Holy Spirit is God He is Spirit and He is holy, the only eternal being. With no beginning and no end. Its obvious that Jesus had a beginning and that was his bodily appearance almost 2000 years ago. However he existed in the bosom of God or Spirit of God from all eternity but was spoken into being at his advent. Jesus Christ (Yeshua) was the spoken word manifested unto us as a perfect sacrifice for the sins of the world. Hallelujah. Any further explanation can be made if needed...

There is a Trinity. And you will meet It when you die

[Resurrection Priest]

On 8/23/2016 at 10:19 PM, kwikphilly said:

And yet there is only one " unpardonable" sin & that is to blaspheme Holy Spirit

Yes.  I find it interesting/confusing that one could speak against "the Son of Man" but could not blaspheme the Holy Spirit.   If BOTH are "God", why the difference? 

And what about blasphemy against God the Father?  That is not even mentioned. 

Personally, I believe the Holy Spirit IS God the Father.  The Holy Spirit is "His Spirit".  The Father is after all - omnipresent.  Right?  

Jesus said the Father, who is in the secret place, will reward you openly.  (Matt 6:6, 6:18)

Jesus said, "the Father who dwells in me, does the works" (all the miracles).  John 14:10

Jesus said, John 6:44 "No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws them"

Ephesians 4:4-6 “There is one body and one Spirit, just as you were called in one hope of your calling; one Lord, one faith, one baptism; one God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.”

If God the Father is "through all and in you all" - that makes Him omnipresent.  That makes Him spirit. 

I believe God the Father "is Spirit" - and that is why blasphemy against the Holy Spirit is the unpardonable sin. 

I don't think that means cursing just one time bars one from Heaven permanently.  I think it has to be resistance, over some period of time. 

Stephen spoke of it.  Acts 7:51 "You stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears! You always resist the Holy Spirit; as your fathers did, so do you."
 

[Resurrection Priest]

On 3/9/2017 at 8:55 AM, No124get1952 said:

As soon as Jesus was baptized, he went up out of the water. At that moment heaven was opened, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and alighting on him. ¹⁷ And a voice from heaven said, “This is my Son, whom I love; with him I am well pleased.”

 

While it is true that the word "trinity" does not appear in scripture. I offer this SCRIPTURAL account of the Baptism of Jesus. At the momet after His baptism, Jesus was still in the water right here on Earth. At that same moment, the Spirit of God was descending like a dove. At that very same moment, a voice comes out of Heaven. What that voice says, indicates the speaker is God the Father. Now, for those who maintain there is NOT a Trinity, how do you scientifically (or any other way), explain three separate manifestations of God in three different physical locations at the same time. Now that is directly from SCRIPTURE. Arguments?

What happened at the Jordan was the anointing.

Only kings and priests were "anointed".  They were anointed with pure first press olive oil. 

Jesus would be both.  Who could "anoint" Jesus - as both King and High Priest ?   Answer:  His Father - God.

God the Father anointed His only begotten Son - with His Spirit.  

Acts 10:38 "how God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Spirit and with power, who went about doing good and healing all who were oppressed by the devil, for God was with Him." (NKJ)

After this anointing Jesus could boldly say, "the Father who dwells in me, does the works" (John 14:10). 

The glorious dove form (rather than literal olive oil) does not change the scenario.  God the Father anointed His Son, with His Spirit.  He even identified Himself.  "This is MY beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased."  

He did not say, 'our beloved son, in whom we are well please'. 

[Resurrection Priest]

Speaking of church fathers:

Matthew 28:19 “Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit”

Many scholars reject the triune baptismal formula as a later addition to the text.  It is not found in the oldest manuscripts.  The disciples are never described as using it.  They baptized in the name of Jesus Christ. 

(It was custom to baptize a convert to Judaism in the name of the one who had taught that man, and brought him into the Covenant with Yahweh.) 

The Emperor Constantine commissioned and paid for a copying and compilation of the Scriptures known today as the “New Testament”.  The resulting Greek text is known as the “Byzantine”.  New scholarly work by those familiar with the ancient manuscripts, has revealed no Greek manuscript (or fragment) older than the time of Constantine, which contains the text of Matthew 28:19.  One Aramaic manuscript survives.  In that manuscript, Matthew 28:19 reads, “baptizing them in my name.”  In other words, Christ commanded the disciples to baptize in HIS name.  Many passages confirm the disciples did just that.

Eusebius of Caesarea wrote during the 4th century.  He was a “friend” of Constantine.  In his work “Ecclesiastical History, Book III, Cpt 5, Section 2", he quotes Matthew 28:19 as “make disciples of all the nations in my name”. 

Eusebius quotes the passage in the same way in “Oration in Praise of Emperor Constantine, Cpt 16, Sect. 8".  He quotes the passage in the same way some 18 times.  Finally, near the end of his life, he quotes the passage just once, as “in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost”.  He may have been influenced by his loyalty to the Emperor, or by fear of the Emperor. We just do not know.  It is also possible, that someone altered that one quotation.

I would welcome input from any familiar with research on Matthew 28:19 and ancient manuscripts. 

[kwikphilly]

Blessings Resurrection Priest

      Welcome to Worthy,nice to meet you.....

Quote

Resurrection Priest said:

Yes.  I find it interesting/confusing that one could speak against "the Son of Man" but could not blaspheme the Holy Spirit.   If BOTH are "God", why the difference? 

It is interesting indeed,interesting enough & important enough to begin a Thread to explain this frequently asked question.Since this thread is nearly 3yrs old and the Topic is not about the "Unpardonable sin" perhaps you might like to begin a new one? 

   I do agree with you that Father God IS SPIRIT,Holy Spirit is Spirit of God,Spirit of Jesus....All One. I agree with you that Blaspheming Holy Spirit is the hardened heart that resists,refuses the Spirit-as it is Written.

   This is a great Topic ,especially for those who fear they "may have" committed this unpardonable sin...this is not something that is accidental or that any Christian ever has to be concerned with,if there is the slightest concern then that only confirms the  desire to repent or a repentant heart.The apostate has no desire to be "pardoned",he has an unrepentant heart,hard to imagine but there are those who do not want any part of Almighty God ,they have made that deliberate choice

                                                                                                           With love-in Christ,Kwik

[Resurrection Priest]

Hello kwikphilly,

The topic of the unpardonable sin (against the Holy Spirit) is "in" the topic of the Trinity teaching. 

You seem to want to discuss the nature of that sin, rather than just who that sin is against.  That's fine.  You go ahead - start another thread.  I will post in your thread.  You can copy my post about it over to that thread. 

But I am also interested in just Who we sin against - when we commit the unpardonable sin.  Why is sin against the Father not mentioned?

I am not personally a believer in the Trinity teaching.   There are many, many reasons.  I just pointed out one of them in my last post - about the unpardonable sin against the Holy Spirit. 

I don't understand why protestant churches are so very adamant about the Trinity doctrine.  They are not Catholic after all.  Is it because they think Christ is reduced somehow, if God is not a Trinity?  

I realize the Jehovah's Witnesses do not worship Christ - but I disagree with that.  I DO WORSHIP JESUS CHRIST.  One cannot bow before the one throne without worshiping both Father and Son who are sitting together on that throne.  

John heard every being in heaven and earth singing with loud voices, "Glory be to the One who sits on the throne, AND to the Lamb forever and ever!"  TWO beings are worshiped in that scene.  TWO. 

In the New Jerusalem to come, "God and the Lamb are the Temple thereof." 

Do they think they cannot keep the first commandment, and worship God's Son?   I don't see why.  If God Himself commanded all creation to serve His Son, then why would that service be violating God's law? 

I personally believe there are TWO divine beings - Father and Son, NOT THREE.  I do not believe the Holy Spirit is a THIRD DIVINE PERSON.  

I believe the Holy Spirit is the Spirit presence of God the Father, and when the Father poured His own Spirit into and through His risen Son, His Son became the channel to pour that Spirit into us.  We experience the presence of Christ with us.  Christ is the one who baptizes with the Spirit. 

Jesus did say that BOTH He and His Father would come INTO the one who loves Him.  So the Spirit is BOTH - Father and Son. 

Show me one verse that says we are to worship the Holy Spirit.  There isn't one. 

ICor 15:45 says "the last Adam became a life giving spirit".   Christ became the Holy Spirit - with us.    Gal 4:6  "God sent the Spirit of His Son - into our hearts." 

I don't see what is so difficult or mysterious about the Comforter/Helper Spirit being the risen, glorified Christ -with us and in us. 

I realize that Jesus called the Comforter "He".   Jesus also referred to Himself in third person - as "He" - in other places.   (Mat. 16:27, 25:31; Mk 8:38, 9:31;  Lk 9:26, Lk 18:8;  Jn 6:62).

[Resurrection Priest]

Sorry - my last post was too long.   Ask me a question about any verse used to "prove" that the Holy Spirit is a THIRD divine person.   I've probably thought through them all. 

I've heard little children singing "Holy Spirit we love You."   That's not Biblical.  I've heard adults singing, "Praise Father, Son and Holy Ghost."  That's not Biblical.  We are not commanded to sing any praises to the Holy Spirit.   We are to thank the Father FOR His gift of the Holy Spirit. 

[other one]

14 minutes ago, Resurrection Priest said:

Sorry - my last post was too long.   Ask me a question about any verse used to "prove" that the Holy Spirit is a THIRD divine person.   I've probably thought through them all. 

I've heard little children singing "Holy Spirit we love You."   That's not Biblical.  I've heard adults singing, "Praise Father, Son and Holy Ghost."  That's not Biblical.  We are not commanded to sing any praises to the Holy Spirit.   We are to thank the Father FOR His gift of the Holy Spirit. 

do you really think we are to do nothing we aren't expressly told to do?

[Resurrection Priest]

6 minutes ago, other one said:

do you really think we are to do nothing we aren't expressly told to do?

When it comes to Whom we worship  - yes.

When you sing, "Praise Father, Son AND Holy Ghost" - do you have it in your mind that the Spirit you are praising is NOT a third divine person, but is rather the omnipresent Father?  

I sing, "Praise Father and Son FOR the Holy Ghost."  The Father SENDS the Spirit, and Jesus BAPTIZES us with the Spirit. 

Edited December 30, 2019 by Resurrection Priest