The Angel of the Lord

[other one]

Ex 3:14

14 And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say

unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you.

ASV

John 8:58

"Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I

am."

NASB

Phil 2:5-7

Jesus, 6 who, although He existed in the form of God , did not

regard equality with God a thing to be grasped, 7 but emptied Himself, taking

the form of a bond-servant, and being made in the likeness of men.

NASB

Considering that the book of Exodus tells us that Moses and 74 other people actually saw the God of Israel and was not struck down, and Jesus tells us that no man has seen the father, it beggs to question just who was the God of Israel that Moses and the others saw.

I say it was Jesus.

[Fez]

Ex 3:14

14 And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say

unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you.

ASV

John 8:58

"Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I

am."

NASB

Phil 2:5-7

Jesus, 6 who, although He existed in the form of God , did not

regard equality with God a thing to be grasped, 7 but emptied Himself, taking

the form of a bond-servant, and being made in the likeness of men.

NASB

Considering that the book of Exodus tells us that Moses and 74 other people actually saw the God of Israel and was not struck down, and Jesus tells us that no man has seen the father, it beggs to question just who was the God of Israel that Moses and the others saw.

I say it was Jesus.

Exo 33:19 And he said, "I will make all my goodness pass before you and will proclaim before you my name 'The LORD.' And I will be gracious to whom I will be gracious, and will show mercy on whom I will show mercy.

Exo 33:20 But," he said, "you cannot see my face, for man shall not see me and live."

Exo 33:21 And the LORD said, "Behold, there is a place by me where you shall stand on the rock,

Exo 33:22 and while my glory passes by I will put you in a cleft of the rock, and I will cover you with my hand until I have passed by.

Exo 33:23 Then I will take away my hand, and you shall see my back, but my face shall not be seen."

Not much evidence here that this was Jesus?

[Openly Curious]

name='Oneaccords' timestamp='1312800389' post='1704996'

Is the Angel of the Lord Jesus Christ?

It is my view that none of the OT scripture refers to Christ but are always identified as "the angel of the Lord" and we have no reason not to accept their introduction as being the angel of the Lord.

In the story of Shadrach, Meshach and Abednego they had refused to fall down and worship the gods and statue that King Nebuchadnezzar had set up for all the people to fall down and worship whenever they heard all kinds of music playing. But Shadrach, Meshach and Abednego refused.to fall down an worship the idol and Nebuchadezzar found out about it. The king gave them warning that if they would fall down and worship then it would well: with but if not they would be thrown into the furnace of fire. Well they didn't fall down and worship his gods and told the king they wouldn't do it. Then they said,to the king, if it be so the God that we serve is able to deliver and even if he don't we still will not bow. Nebuchadnezzar got so furious at them he order that the furnace of fire be heated up seven times more hotter and then throw the three men into the fire.

The fire was so hot it killed the men who brought up Shadrach, Meshach and Abednego to be thrown into the furnance but they bound the three and threw them in the fire. The king was confounded and stands up and asks his counsellor didn't we throw three men in the fire tied up and they said that it was true that they did. The king response was.........................

Daniel 3:25 He answered and said, Lo, I see four men loose, walking in the midst of the fire, and they have no hurt; and the form of the fourth is like the Son of God.

Some believe the fourth man in the fire is an angel but it's my view that the fourth man in the fire was Christ as it says, and the form (image) of the fourth is like the Son of God. The Son of God refers that Christ has not come to this earth yet as deliver that is why he is not being addressed as the Son of man.

I said all of that just to say, we should just take the identification of who the scripture is addressing and when you can't figure it out just keep at it until your sure or keep it on the back burner.

[Oneaccords]

Daniel 3:25 He answered and said, Lo, I see four men loose, walking in the midst of the fire, and they have no hurt; and the form of the fourth is like the Son of God.

Some believe the fourth man in the fire is an angel but it's my view that the fourth man in the fire was Christ as it says, and the form (image) of the fourth is like the Son of God. The Son of God refers that Christ has not come to this earth yet as deliverer that is why he is not being addressed as the Son of man.

I think that it is the Lord Jesus too. Notice that the men had faith in God and would not bow down to the image or obey Nebuchadnezzar (a type of antichrist)

It is my view that none of the OT scripture refers to Christ but are always identified as "the angel of the Lord" and we have no reason not to accept their introduction as being the angel of the Lord.

But it is easy: The Lord Jesus is the Lord in the Old Testament! The Lord Jesus is one with the Father.

And what i'm thinking wouldn't it be easy for the Lord Jesus to appear as an angel in the Old Testament?

[Shiloh62]

No

Jesus was/is the God Moses knew in the Old Testament.

Forgive me, but I don't understand that statement. Moses knew and worshipped the Son? I always thought he was worshipping God, the father. Surely, Moses could not known about Jesus.

[Guest shiloh357]

No

Jesus was/is the God Moses knew in the Old Testament.

Forgive me, but I don't understand that statement. Moses knew and worshipped the Son? I always thought he was worshipping God, the father. Surely, Moses could not known about Jesus.

Moses did not know Him as "Jesus Christ" or "Yeshua." The Father, Son and Spirit are inseparable as they are one being. So when we say "God" appeared to Moses, that is what we mean. "God" created the world, but we know from Colossians 1 that Jesus is the Creator. "Yehsua/Jesus" is the Name of the Messiah in the flesh. But as God, He is YHVH, just as the Father is. YHVH is the redemptive Name of God. It is the Name through which He relates to us. Yeshua was/is the personification of that Name. He is YHVH.

No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.

(Joh 1:18)

No man had "seen" God at any time, meaning that no one had ever knew God as God. There had been many theophanies, visitations from angelic messengers speaking as God's mouthpieces, delcarations of the "Word of the Lord," but no direct intuitive perception or complete knowledge of God for who He really is. However, in Jesus we find the true exposition, the very revelation of the nature, character and operations of the Father. Jesus modeled the Father in front of us.

[Guest]

Jesus

Philip saith unto him, Lord, shew us the Father, and it sufficeth us.

Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?

Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works. John 14:8-10

Is LORD

And they heard the voice of the LORD God walking in the garden in the cool of the day: and Adam and his wife hid themselves from the presence of the LORD God amongst the trees of the garden. Genesis 3:8

____________

No

Jesus was/is the God Moses knew in the Old Testament.

Forgive me, but I don't understand that statement. Moses knew and worshipped the Son? I always thought he was worshipping God, the father. Surely, Moses could not known about Jesus.

Moses did not know Him as "Jesus Christ" or "Yeshua." The Father, Son and Spirit are inseparable as they are one being. So when we say "God" appeared to Moses, that is what we mean. "God" created the world, but we know from Colossians 1 that Jesus is the Creator. "Yehsua/Jesus" is the Name of the Messiah in the flesh. But as God, He is YHVH, just as the Father is. YHVH is the redemptive Name of God. It is the Name through which He relates to us. Yeshua was/is the personification of that Name. He is YHVH.

No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him. (John 1:18)

No man had "seen" God at any time, meaning that no one had ever knew God as God. There had been many theophanies, visitations from angelic messengers speaking as God's mouthpieces, declarations of the "Word of the Lord," but no direct intuitive perception or complete knowledge of God for who He really is. However, in Jesus we find the true exposition, the very revelation of the nature, character and operations of the Father. Jesus modeled the Father in front of us.

Amen~!

And when the sun was going down, a deep sleep fell upon Abram; and, lo, an horror of great darkness fell upon him. Genesis 15:12

In The Big Book Of Jesus Who Are These Two

And it came to pass, that, when the sun went down, and it was dark, behold a smoking furnace, and a burning lamp that passed between those pieces.

In the same day the LORD made a covenant with Abram, saying, Unto thy seed have I given this land, from the river of Egypt unto the great river, the river Euphrates: Genesis 15:17-18

And Who Are These Two

Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God. Isaiah 44:6

And Who Is This

For thy Maker is thine husband; the LORD of hosts is his name; and thy Redeemer the Holy One of Israel; The God of the whole earth shall he be called. Isaiah 54:5

And Whose Name

Thy words were found, and I did eat them; and thy word was unto me the joy and rejoicing of mine heart: for I am called by thy name, O LORD God of hosts. Jeremiah 15:16

Do Believers Carry

And there shall be no more curse: but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it; and his servants shall serve him:

And they shall see his face; and his name shall be in their foreheads. Revelation 22:3-4

In The Big Book Of Jesus

[other one]

No

Jesus was/is the God Moses knew in the Old Testament.

Forgive me, but I don't understand that statement. Moses knew and worshipped the Son? I always thought he was worshipping God, the father. Surely, Moses could not known about Jesus.

Jesus tells us that no one has ever seen the Father. But:......

Ex 24:9-11

9 Then Moses went up with Aaron, Nadab and Abihu, and seventy of the elders

of Israel, 10 and they saw the God of Israel ; and under His feet there appeared

to be a pavement of sapphire, as clear as the sky itself. 11 Yet He did not

stretch out His hand against the nobles of the sons of Israel; and they beheld

God, and they ate and drank.

NASB

We know from Philippians that Jesus existed with the Father from the beginning and was in the form of God before he set that aside and became flesh.

We're also told in Corinthians that all things came from the Father and all things came through Jesus. Jesus was the actual creator of the universe but came from the Father.

I guess I have a slightly different feeling of the trinity and how they all fit together, but I do believe with all my heart that Jesus in the form he existed in before he was flesh was the God that Moses knew and saw and talked to. I don't think we actually knew of the Father until Jesus came here and reveled Him to us.

So, to answer your question, Yes Moses did know the Son, but it was before he was the Son. In his pre existing condition he was not created as I understand it and so he could not be referred to as Son until he was born in the flesh.

I don't want to get into a trinity discussion for that always gets ugly, but this is my understanding of what Jesus was/is.

[Oneaccords]

However, in Jesus we find the true exposition, the very revelation of the nature, character and operations of the Father. Jesus modeled the Father in front of us.

And what about this about Christ in the Old Testament:

1 Corinthians 10:

1 Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea;

2 And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea;

3 And did all eat the same spiritual meat;

4 And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.

5 But with many of them God was not well pleased: for they were overthrown in the wilderness.

6 Now these things were our examples, to the intent we should not lust after evil things, as they also lusted.

7 Neither be ye idolaters, as were some of them; as it is written, The people sat down to eat and drink, and rose up to play.

8 Neither let us commit fornication, as some of them committed, and fell in one day three and twenty thousand.

9 Neither let us tempt Christ, as some of them also tempted, and were destroyed of serpents.

26 For the earth is the Lord's, and the fulness thereof.

[Openly Curious]

name='Oneaccords' timestamp='1313057895' post=

'

Daniel 3:25 He answered and said, Lo, I see four men loose, walking in the midst of the fire, and they have no hurt; and the form of the fourth is like the Son of God.

Some believe the fourth man in the fire is an angel but it's my view that the fourth man in the fire was Christ as it says, and the form (image) of the fourth is like the Son of God. The Son of God refers that Christ has not come to this earth yet as deliverer that is why he is not being addressed as the Son of man.

I think that it is the Lord Jesus too. Notice that the men had faith in God and would not bow down to the image or obey Nebuchadnezzar (a type of antichrist)

I agree with you totally about Nebuchadnezzar being a type of the anti-christ and that is what is going to happen in the end-times. Satan will try and get all people to take his mark, and to worship his image and worship the beast but just as God brought king Nebuchadnezzar down he also will throw Satan (the anti-christ into the lake of fire.

It is my view that none of the OT scripture refers to Christ but are always identified as "the angel of the Lord" and we have no reason not to accept their introduction as being the angel of the Lord

But it is easy: The Lord Jesus is the Lord in the Old Testament! The Lord Jesus is one with the Father.

Again I agree with you in the Old Testament it is interesting to me that the Lord is always addressed in capital letters like "LORD" in the New Testament it is in lower letters such as "Lord" it is like this because God in the form of his Son came and now he is "Master" The Lord Jesus is one with the Father and you can see Jesus submit to the Father's will.

And what i'm thinking wouldn't it be easy for the Lord Jesus to appear as an angel in the Old Testament?

There is nothing impossible with our God as we serve a great big God and I believe is easy for the Lord Jesus to appear as an angel in the Old Testament

I believe Christ was represented in the types and shadows that are in the Old Testament as you can read some of these examples which was to take warning not to follow their ways. If you want to read it's found in..........1 Corinthians 10