The Purpose of the Tribulation

[Littlelambseativy]

Yes, but is the Wrath of God not going to be poured out during the 'time' of the Tribulation?

The Tribulation period starts with the Rapture and the Holy Spirit no longer sealing the elect. Life at that point ceases to be as good as it is currently indicating the Wrath of God is being poured out. The Restrainer is limited allowing the release of all evil and God's anger on those who chose not to accept Jesus Christ.

I do not hold to a pretrib rapture of anykind, not saying you or anyone else has to agree with that. As I said we have been in a tribulation since Adam was kicked out of the garden, the great tribulation spoken of is not the wrath of God, the bowl judgments are His wrath. During the great trib we all will be here, this is the time of Gods refinement of His bride, casting off those who are lukewarm, those who truly have not given themselves fully over to His will. But to think that we all are going to escape this great tribulation is not in scripture, no matter how many times someone can turn and use scriptures to find some escape avenue. Just as God lifted up Noah, or how God kept those safe in Goshen as the angel of death passed over, God will protect us during the time the angels are pouring out the judgments on those who have not bowed to Him.

shalom,

Mizz

I agree mizzdy. I believe we are here & protected during the wrath because after the 6th vial/bowl is poured out, we see in Rev 16:15, " Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watches, and keeps his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame." This indicates to me that the saints are still here. I believe we are protected by being "in Christ"

How can we be protected if the Restrainer is gone? Would our Lord leave us without the Holy Spirit? No groom would leave his bride at the mercy of his enemy why would Christ?

Are you men better than the Lord or are you women willing to settle for anything less in a groom? I certainly am not. My Bridegroom knows the danger that I face with the Holy Spirit removed and He will come and take me from the harm His enemy would inflict on me.

I know this for an absolute certainty and not a shadow of a doubt.

The Spirit resides within us, why would God remove that from us? Where exactly does it say that it is the Holy Spirit that restrains? Yeshua will come for His bride, we will be taken to Him, protected by Him during the wrath that is poured out but we will be here during the great tribulation. By the blood of Yeshua we are saved from Gods wrath.

shalom,

Mizz

The only way one can interpret who the restrainer is particularly now is -

2 Thessalonians 2:7

For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only He who now restrains will do so until He is taken out of the way.

How else would you interpret this? It is only the Holy Spirit that is with us now.

[goldust59]

Yes, but is the Wrath of God not going to be poured out during the 'time' of the Tribulation?

The Tribulation period starts with the Rapture and the Holy Spirit no longer sealing the elect. Life at that point ceases to be as good as it is currently indicating the Wrath of God is being poured out. The Restrainer is limited allowing the release of all evil and God's anger on those who chose not to accept Jesus Christ.

I do not hold to a pretrib rapture of anykind, not saying you or anyone else has to agree with that. As I said we have been in a tribulation since Adam was kicked out of the garden, the great tribulation spoken of is not the wrath of God, the bowl judgments are His wrath. During the great trib we all will be here, this is the time of Gods refinement of His bride, casting off those who are lukewarm, those who truly have not given themselves fully over to His will. But to think that we all are going to escape this great tribulation is not in scripture, no matter how many times someone can turn and use scriptures to find some escape avenue. Just as God lifted up Noah, or how God kept those safe in Goshen as the angel of death passed over, God will protect us during the time the angels are pouring out the judgments on those who have not bowed to Him.

shalom,

Mizz

I agree mizzdy. I believe we are here & protected during the wrath because after the 6th vial/bowl is poured out, we see in Rev 16:15, " Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watches, and keeps his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame." This indicates to me that the saints are still here. I believe we are protected by being "in Christ"

How can we be protected if the Restrainer is gone? Would our Lord leave us without the Holy Spirit? No groom would leave his bride at the mercy of his enemy why would Christ?

Are you men better than the Lord or are you women willing to settle for anything less in a groom? I certainly am not. My Bridegroom knows the danger that I face with the Holy Spirit removed and He will come and take me from the harm His enemy would inflict on me.

I know this for an absolute certainty and not a shadow of a doubt.

We are caught up with the Lord when He comes.

Luke 21:27 Then they will see the Son of Man coming in a cloud with power and great glory. 28 Now when these things begin to happen, look up and lift up your heads, because your redemption draws near.”

1 Thessalonians 4:17 Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord.

I think we will go through the tribulation but I think that He will empower us to go through it. I believe during the tribulation the Church is going to walk in the fullness of Christ.

I hope you are right that we will walk in the fullness of Christ during the trib, but I lean more toward the tribulation bringing us into the fullness of Christ. i think that is when we are "refined as silver" & "tried as gold" & brought through the fire as mentioned in Zechariah 13:9.

[goldust59]

Yes, but is the Wrath of God not going to be poured out during the 'time' of the Tribulation?

The Tribulation period starts with the Rapture and the Holy Spirit no longer sealing the elect. Life at that point ceases to be as good as it is currently indicating the Wrath of God is being poured out. The Restrainer is limited allowing the release of all evil and God's anger on those who chose not to accept Jesus Christ.

I do not hold to a pretrib rapture of anykind, not saying you or anyone else has to agree with that. As I said we have been in a tribulation since Adam was kicked out of the garden, the great tribulation spoken of is not the wrath of God, the bowl judgments are His wrath. During the great trib we all will be here, this is the time of Gods refinement of His bride, casting off those who are lukewarm, those who truly have not given themselves fully over to His will. But to think that we all are going to escape this great tribulation is not in scripture, no matter how many times someone can turn and use scriptures to find some escape avenue. Just as God lifted up Noah, or how God kept those safe in Goshen as the angel of death passed over, God will protect us during the time the angels are pouring out the judgments on those who have not bowed to Him.

shalom,

Mizz

I agree mizzdy. I believe we are here & protected during the wrath because after the 6th vial/bowl is poured out, we see in Rev 16:15, " Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watches, and keeps his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame." This indicates to me that the saints are still here. I believe we are protected by being "in Christ"

How can we be protected if the Restrainer is gone? Would our Lord leave us without the Holy Spirit? No groom would leave his bride at the mercy of his enemy why would Christ?

Are you men better than the Lord or are you women willing to settle for anything less in a groom? I certainly am not. My Bridegroom knows the danger that I face with the Holy Spirit removed and He will come and take me from the harm His enemy would inflict on me.

I know this for an absolute certainty and not a shadow of a doubt.

The Spirit resides within us, why would God remove that from us? Where exactly does it say that it is the Holy Spirit that restrains? Yeshua will come for His bride, we will be taken to Him, protected by Him during the wrath that is poured out but we will be here during the great tribulation. By the blood of Yeshua we are saved from Gods wrath.

shalom,

Mizz

The only way one can interpret who the restrainer is particularly now is -

2 Thessalonians 2:7

For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only He who now restrains will do so until He is taken out of the way.

How else would you interpret this? It is only the Holy Spirit that is with us now.

I am not sure the Holy Spirit is the restrainer. I think that is something that has been taught so long that it is mostly accepted now.

There will be opportunity to be saved during the tribulation & one cannot be saved without the work of the Holy Spirit, so how can He be removed beforehand?

[Joshua-777]

I hope you are right that we will walk in the fullness of Christ during the trib, but I lean more toward the tribulation bringing us into the fullness of Christ. i think that is when we are "refined as silver" & "tried as gold" & brought through the fire as mentioned in Zechariah 13:9.

There are many reasons why I lean this way. If the Tribulation is the tares all grown up, what will the wheat all grown up look like? Matthew 13:24-30

One night while I was in worship, I had a vision of half the world turning black and half the world turning into a fiery white light.

Revelation 19:7 Let us be glad and rejoice and give Him glory, for the marriage of the Lamb has come, and His wife has made herself ready.

Matthew 25:6 “And at midnight a cry was heard: ‘Behold, the bridegroom is coming; go out to meet him!’ 7 Then all those virgins arose and trimmed their lamps.

Ephesians 4:11 And He Himself gave some to be apostles, some prophets, some evangelists, and some pastors and teachers, 12 for the equipping of the saints for the work of ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ, 13 till we all come to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to a perfect man, to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ; 14 that we should no longer be children, tossed to and fro and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the trickery of men, in the cunning craftiness of deceitful plotting, 15 but, speaking the truth in love, may grow up in all things into Him who is the head—Christ—

[Guest]

I am not sure the Holy Spirit is the restrainer. I think that is something that has been taught so long that it is mostly accepted now.

There will be opportunity to be saved during the tribulation & one cannot be saved without the work of the Holy Spirit, so how can He be removed beforehand?

Could It Be? Today We See Governments Being Removed

For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same:

For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil. Romans 13:3-4

Freeing Lawlessness To Run It's Evil Course....

And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.

For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.

All these are the beginning of sorrows.

Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.

And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.

And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.

And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.

But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come. Matthew 24:6-14

[Massorite]

Yes, but is the Wrath of God not going to be poured out during the 'time' of the Tribulation?

The Tribulation period starts with the Rapture and the Holy Spirit no longer sealing the elect. Life at that point ceases to be as good as it is currently indicating the Wrath of God is being poured out. The Restrainer is limited allowing the release of all evil and God's anger on those who chose not to accept Jesus Christ.

I do not hold to a pretrib rapture of anykind, not saying you or anyone else has to agree with that. As I said we have been in a tribulation since Adam was kicked out of the garden, the great tribulation spoken of is not the wrath of God, the bowl judgments are His wrath. During the great trib we all will be here, this is the time of Gods refinement of His bride, casting off those who are lukewarm, those who truly have not given themselves fully over to His will. But to think that we all are going to escape this great tribulation is not in scripture, no matter how many times someone can turn and use scriptures to find some escape avenue. Just as God lifted up Noah, or how God kept those safe in Goshen as the angel of death passed over, God will protect us during the time the angels are pouring out the judgments on those who have not bowed to Him.

shalom,

Mizz

I agree mizzdy. I believe we are here & protected during the wrath because after the 6th vial/bowl is poured out, we see in Rev 16:15, " Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watches, and keeps his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame." This indicates to me that the saints are still here. I believe we are protected by being "in Christ"

How can we be protected if the Restrainer is gone? Would our Lord leave us without the Holy Spirit? No groom would leave his bride at the mercy of his enemy why would Christ?

Are you men better than the Lord or are you women willing to settle for anything less in a groom? I certainly am not. My Bridegroom knows the danger that I face with the Holy Spirit removed and He will come and take me from the harm His enemy would inflict on me.

I know this for an absolute certainty and not a shadow of a doubt.

The Spirit resides within us, why would God remove that from us? Where exactly does it say that it is the Holy Spirit that restrains? Yeshua will come for His bride, we will be taken to Him, protected by Him during the wrath that is poured out but we will be here during the great tribulation. By the blood of Yeshua we are saved from Gods wrath.

shalom,

Mizz

The only way one can interpret who the restrainer is particularly now is -

2 Thessalonians 2:7

For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only He who now restrains will do so until He is taken out of the way.

How else would you interpret this? It is only the Holy Spirit that is with us now.

Learn a lesson here littlelamb. If it is not written in the bible then it is not. If the bible does not tell us who the restrainer is then you should not interprete that which is not there. We don't have any scripture that tells us who the restrainer actually is. If the bible doesn't say that the restrainer is the church or the holy spirit but then you interprete that verse as if it were telling us that the restrainer is the Holy Spirit. You are guilty of adding words to the word of God which otherwise do not exsist in the word of God.

What about Micheal the arch angel. We know that he has been among the angels for ever. We know that he is still with us today. We know for a fact that scripture tells us that he stands against the forces of evil on behave of the people of God and keeps evil at bay but does the bible tell us that he is the restrainer? No it does not.

The only way to interprete that verse about the restrainer is not to interprete it at all because no matter what we might come up with it can not be proved to be the right interpretation using scripture because there is no scripture that we can use to prove any interpretation.

[JohnD]

Matt, Who releases HaSatan from the abyss? Rev 20.

[JohnD]

Who gives HaShiqutz Meshomem authority to slay the saints? Rev 13.

[JohnD]

HaShem is the Creator and can do with his creation what he wills. In this case he is bringing to a close the rejection of the chosen. There is no other purpose the tribulation and the great tribulation serve than to open the eyes of the Jewish people that Yeshua is indeed the Promised Messiah. Their Promised Messiah. And, even though they will do it as a last resort... they will cry out to Yeshua using the old Psalm distress signal... Hosha Nah (Hosanna) Save Now! Baruch habba b'shem Adonoi Yeshua YHWH Shua (YHVH Saves). And he will come at that moment and will save the Jewish people who survive to that point. And the mountains will be rent in twain and the nations that assembled against the chosen will be slain into blood and gore as high as the bridle of a horse.

[Littlelambseativy]

HaShem is the Creator and can do with his creation what he wills. In this case he is bringing to a close the rejection of the chosen. There is no other purpose the tribulation and the great tribulation serve than to open the eyes of the Jewish people that Yeshua is indeed the Promised Messiah. Their Promised Messiah. And, even though they will do it as a last resort... they will cry out to Yeshua using the old Psalm distress signal... Hosha Nah (Hosanna) Save Now! Baruch habba b'shem Adonoi Yeshua YHWH Shua (YHVH Saves). And he will come at that moment and will save the Jewish people who survive to that point. And the mountains will be rent in twain and the nations that assembled against the chosen will be slain into blood and gore as high as the bridle of a horse.

That is the only reason for the Tribulation. For as long as the Church is here on earth God cannot turn His attention to Israel. You are absolutely correct. That is why the Church MUST be removed in the rapture.