Can you prove salvation

[saved34]

Thanks Joe, good words of scripture!

As to the Op, I will say one thing.

No one except yourself and God can define if you are saved or not.

Only He and you know your heart.

Blessings

....and sometimes we can even deceive ourselves...... so I say in reality only the Lord knows.

This is true, the Lord knows those who are his, but it is his will that we know as well. It is his will that we have full confidence and assurance of faith. Doubting God is a sin. (that we are all guilty of at some times)

1Jn 5:13 These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, so that you may know that you have eternal life.

1Jn 5:10 The one who believes in the Son of God has the testimony in himself; the one who does not believe God has made Him a liar, because he has not believed in the testimony that God has given concerning His Son.

Rom 8:16 The Spirit Himself testifies with our spirit that we are children of God,

Heb 6:11 And we desire that each one of you show the same diligence so as to realize the full assurance of hope until the end,

Heb 10:22 let us draw near with a sincere heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled clean from an evil conscience and our bodies washed with pure water.

Heb 10:23 Let us hold fast the confession of our hope without wavering, for He who promised is faithful;

Heb 6:18 so that by two unchangeable things in which it is impossible for God to lie, we who have taken refuge would have strong encouragement to take hold of the hope set before us.

Heb 6:19 This hope we have as an anchor of the soul, a hope both sure and steadfast and one which enters within the veil,

We possess eternal life NOW and we are united to the living Christ, now. We are one spirit with him. The only way you or I could perish is if he can perish...Perish the thought.

1Co 6:17 But the one who joins himself to the Lord is one spirit with Him.

1Co 12:13 For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body, whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free, and we were all made to drink of one Spirit.

Eph 2:6 and raised us up with Him, and seated us with Him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus,

This is the ultimate safety. One with Christ, and right now seated with him beside the almighty God the Father. Can't explain it at all, but believe with all of my heart. Our assurance is completely in him.

Edited April 24, 2012 by saved34

[taylor30]

This may seem like an odd question, however I have had doubts about my own salvation for years. When I do good, I feel like I am trying to earn salvation. When I do bad, I feel like I couldn't have done those things if I were saved. I have sincerely prayed for salvation literally hundreds of times, and still there is no change.

So my question is this

Is it possible to prove that you are saved, or is there something that a saved person does that a lost person woud never do? Please provide a scriptural answer.

I haven't ever met one who is born again who didn't love the Word of God, receive it as authoritative for his life and want to learn more of it.

The unregenerate don't hunger for the Word of God as a babe hungers for milk.

I agree with that, however what about people who hunger for the word of God but ALSO don't fight against temptation like they should?

[gdemoss]

99% of the people I have spoken to believe that they are saved. Not even 25% agree with each other upon how one is saved. Galatians 5 says heretics will not inherit the kingdom of God. Jesus said many are called but few chosen. Paul told timothy that if a man removes all heresy from himself he is a vessel unto honor. I ask the same question Taylor30 does, what will become of the one who doesn't fight temptation?

Gary

[taylor30]

99% of the people I have spoken to believe that they are saved. Not even 25% agree with each other upon how one is saved. Galatians 5 says heretics will not inherit the kingdom of God. Jesus said many are called but few chosen. Paul told timothy that if a man removes all heresy from himself he is a vessel unto honor. I ask the same question Taylor30 does, what will become of the one who doesn't fight temptation?

Gary

I spend a lot of time wondering about that. Since works CANNOT earn or keep salvation, you CANNOT use works as a fair measurement. And works can be manufactured. Even unbelievers perform wonderful works sometimes. It is also true that we don't lose our free will at conversion. Therefore I believe we MUST consider the possibility that a Christian CAN choose to live in sin. Since scripture claims we are saved ONLY by faith and accepting the gift of salvation, it is quite confusing that a person who sincerely asks for forgiveness and then lives in sin COULD be saved.

[saved34]

99% of the people I have spoken to believe that they are saved. Not even 25% agree with each other upon how one is saved. Galatians 5 says heretics will not inherit the kingdom of God. Jesus said many are called but few chosen. Paul told timothy that if a man removes all heresy from himself he is a vessel unto honor. I ask the same question Taylor30 does, what will become of the one who doesn't fight temptation?

Gary

I spend a lot of time wondering about that. Since works CANNOT earn or keep salvation, you CANNOT use works as a fair measurement. And works can be manufactured. Even unbelievers perform wonderful works sometimes. It is also true that we don't lose our free will at conversion. Therefore I believe we MUST consider the possibility that a Christian CAN choose to live in sin. Since scripture claims we are saved ONLY by faith and accepting the gift of salvation, it is quite confusing that a person who sincerely asks for forgiveness and then lives in sin COULD be saved.

I think saying a Christian "chooses to live in sin" is too strong. I do not believe for one second that a born again believer will choose to live in sin. What can happen is a believer may be over come by sin or temptation. He may wallow in sin for a season, but he does not choose to live in sin. There are factors in his life that will hinder this. He has a new nature from God that is completely dedicated to God. It desires nothing but to do God's will. It was created in righteousness and holiness.

Rom 7:22 For I joyfully concur with the law of God in the inner man,

Eph 4:24 and put on the new self, which in the likeness of God has been created in righteousness and holiness of the truth.

A believer will never be content to just stay in sin. The comforter(Holy Spirit) will press him to turn. He will not allow the believer to comfortably live in sin. Then the discipline of God. He will correct as needed. A believer will either come to his senses, or God will do it for him. This can result in him allowing satan to destroy the flesh with sickness, or even God may take this person home in physical death.

1Co 11:31 But if we judged ourselves rightly, we would not be judged.

1Co 11:32 But when we are judged, we are disciplined by the Lord so that we will not be condemned along with the world.

1Co 5:5 I have decided to deliver such a one to Satan for the destruction of his flesh, so that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.

Heb 12:7 It is for discipline that you endure; God deals with you as with sons; for what son is there whom his father does not discipline?

Heb 12:8 But if you are without discipline, of which all have become partakers, then you are illegitimate children and not sons.

The major issue to me is, a believer in his zeal tries to "appease" God through his good efforts. He has not come to the realization that he has peace with God through Christ. He still views God as some outside task master who weighs his good with his bad and has him under some kind of brutal mandate where he can be dropped if he is not living up to snuff. He is basically placing himself under the law and not seeing himself as alive to God (apart from his works). This only incites the flesh to do even more evil and now he is caught in a vicious cycle of a defiled conscious, and ignorance on how to live right. He must recon himself alive to God through Jesus Christ. Apart from law, apart from works, apart from any effort on his part. Through that freedom of conscious he can now begin to grow and truly serve God. It is the hardest thing in the world to get the conscious settled that God is at peace with you, God is with you now. You do not have to appease him as the pagans do with their false gods. He see's you in Christ, you are free from the slavery of a works based salvation (if you do good, you live, do bad, you die). You can now serve God, not for life, but because you have life and are a member of his family.

[gdemoss]

99% of the people I have spoken to believe that they are saved. Not even 25% agree with each other upon how one is saved. Galatians 5 says heretics will not inherit the kingdom of God. Jesus said many are called but few chosen. Paul told timothy that if a man removes all heresy from himself he is a vessel unto honor. I ask the same question Taylor30 does, what will become of the one who doesn't fight temptation?

Gary

I spend a lot of time wondering about that. Since works CANNOT earn or keep salvation, you CANNOT use works as a fair measurement. And works can be manufactured. Even unbelievers perform wonderful works sometimes. It is also true that we don't lose our free will at conversion. Therefore I believe we MUST consider the possibility that a Christian CAN choose to live in sin. Since scripture claims we are saved ONLY by faith and accepting the gift of salvation, it is quite confusing that a person who sincerely asks for forgiveness and then lives in sin COULD be saved.

Upon becoming a believer in Christ, one of the most important things a Christian must get straight is the place of 'works' in a Christians life and what affect they have upon their salvation. Works cannot gain one salvation as they have already erred in sin and are dead. Only faith in the blood of Christ can atone for that sin. Works cannot 'maintain' salvation as if Jesus got you a new lease on life and you must then perform to a certain level in order to continue being saved. No. Works play a much different role in the salvation of the believer. There is a judgment coming for everyone who has ever lived. Everyone will be judged by their 'works'. Not to decide whether they were 'good enough' to gain entrance or anything of personal merit. They will be judged for the simple purpose of showing whether they believed what God had told them personally or not. If they are found to have works that shows that they believe the personal revelation God gave them, they will receive the imputed righteousness of Christ and gain entrance into the kingdom of God. If their 'works' show that they did not believe what God said, they will be cast into the lake of fire as an unbeliever.

The thing that each of us needs to be concerned with is, what has God said to each of us and do we believe what he has said? God has said a lot to me through his word. One thing he said is the 'drunkards will not inherit the kingdom of God'. My 'works' declare plainly that I believe this to be true. God said that I cannot do anything works wise that will gain me entrance into the kingdom of God, therefore I do not trust in my fleshly good works as if they will ever merit anything for me. When I read scripture, I ask myself do I believe this? Would I be convicted in Christs court of believing it by my works?

The heart is deceitful and desperately wicked (Jer 17:9)

Gary

[grandma dolittle]

This may seem like an odd question, however I have had doubts about my own salvation for years. When I do good, I feel like I am trying to earn salvation. When I do bad, I feel like I couldn't have done those things if I were saved. I have sincerely prayed for salvation literally hundreds of times, and still there is no change.

So my question is this

Is it possible to prove that you are saved, or is there something that a saved person does that a lost person woud never do? Please provide a scriptural answer.

Taylor,

It is a good question, one that I am sure we all have asked ourselves.

Don't confuse salvation with sanctification. I'm still learning the sanctification part. The difference is salvation means we are saved and sanctification means we are being set apart. The fact that you feel bad is the Holy Spirit working on you. Should you be worried about sins, YES. Does it mean your not saved? I can't answer that question, but if you repent (turn away) they are forgiven. Are you gonna stumble? Yes, we all do. Sanctification is a process. As far as it concerns me and my walk, a very gradual one. I'm trying to stay in the word and on my knees.

As far as you feeling your trying to earn your salvation, you won't. The fact that it's still hard to "do good" is your flesh. Just trying to "do good" on your own will never get easier.

Stay in the word, stay in prayer and stay in fellowship. Lately, I have even starting to cut away from those who are not believers, watching what kind of shows and what kind of music I listen to. It's not "to be saved" but its to not allow myself to be influenced by the world.

I know these days preachers seem to always preach on "how to be saved" and hardly anything on "what's next".

Just my 2 cents.

L.J.

I think faith plays a large part in the knowledge of salvation. Some people seem to be high and shout loudly, while others rise from thier knees feeling peace. Constantly talking to God and reading the Word fills me with peace and the more I read and talk, the sweeter the peace is. Living the life Christ would want you to also strengthens the faith. I know that God threw my sins away and no longer remembers them. Worshipping with other Christians, testifying, and doing whatever the need the church has all strengthen my faith. Making sure that if Christ came to my house to visit me, Iwould not be ashamed of the books I read; movies I watch; tv programs I watch, or clothes I wear. We cannot earn salvation, it was a free gift paid for by Christ.

[OneLight]

I can't point ot Christ in me, but you can observe how He has changed me and evaluate for yourself, for we are known by our fruit.

Matthew 7:15-20

You Will Know Them by Their Fruits

“Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves. You will know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes from thornbushes or figs from thistles? Even so, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a bad tree bear good fruit. Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. Therefore by their fruits you will know them."

What is fruit?

Galatians 5:16-26

Walking in the Spirit

I say then: Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh. For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; and these are contrary to one another, so that you do not do the things that you wish. But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.

Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.

But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control. Against such there is no law. And those who are Christ’s have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires. If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit. Let us not become conceited, provoking one another, envying one another.

[taylor30]

This may seem like an odd question, however I have had doubts about my own salvation for years. When I do good, I feel like I am trying to earn salvation. When I do bad, I feel like I couldn't have done those things if I were saved. I have sincerely prayed for salvation literally hundreds of times, and still there is no change.

So my question is this

Is it possible to prove that you are saved, or is there something that a saved person does that a lost person woud never do? Please provide a scriptural answer.

I haven't ever met one who is born again who didn't love the Word of God, receive it as authoritative for his life and want to learn more of it.

The unregenerate don't hunger for the Word of God as a babe hungers for milk.

I agree with that, however what about people who hunger for the word of God but ALSO don't fight against temptation like they should?

The first thing I would check is my obedience in fundamental matters.

Disobedience is a block to growth, and robs us of our assurance of salvation.

Then I would pray fervantly for a change of heart that makes me want to give up my sin, which won't happen over night, but it will happen.

When that happens, you will be able to come into obedience, and everything will change.

Forgive me but are you suggesting I doubt salvation because I am living in sin?

[taylor30]

99% of the people I have spoken to believe that they are saved. Not even 25% agree with each other upon how one is saved. Galatians 5 says heretics will not inherit the kingdom of God. Jesus said many are called but few chosen. Paul told timothy that if a man removes all heresy from himself he is a vessel unto honor. I ask the same question Taylor30 does, what will become of the one who doesn't fight temptation?

Gary

I spend a lot of time wondering about that. Since works CANNOT earn or keep salvation, you CANNOT use works as a fair measurement. And works can be manufactured. Even unbelievers perform wonderful works sometimes. It is also true that we don't lose our free will at conversion. Therefore I believe we MUST consider the possibility that a Christian CAN choose to live in sin. Since scripture claims we are saved ONLY by faith and accepting the gift of salvation, it is quite confusing that a person who sincerely asks for forgiveness and then lives in sin COULD be saved.

I think saying a Christian "chooses to live in sin" is too strong. I do not believe for one second that a born again believer will choose to live in sin. What can happen is a believer may be over come by sin or temptation. He may wallow in sin for a season, but he does not choose to live in sin. There are factors in his life that will hinder this. He has a new nature from God that is completely dedicated to God. It desires nothing but to do God's will. It was created in righteousness and holiness.

Rom 7:22 For I joyfully concur with the law of God in the inner man,

Eph 4:24 and put on the new self, which in the likeness of God has been created in righteousness and holiness of the truth.

A believer will never be content to just stay in sin. The comforter(Holy Spirit) will press him to turn. He will not allow the believer to comfortably live in sin. Then the discipline of God. He will correct as needed. A believer will either come to his senses, or God will do it for him. This can result in him allowing satan to destroy the flesh with sickness, or even God may take this person home in physical death.

1Co 11:31 But if we judged ourselves rightly, we would not be judged.

1Co 11:32 But when we are judged, we are disciplined by the Lord so that we will not be condemned along with the world.

1Co 5:5 I have decided to deliver such a one to Satan for the destruction of his flesh, so that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.

Heb 12:7 It is for discipline that you endure; God deals with you as with sons; for what son is there whom his father does not discipline?

Heb 12:8 But if you are without discipline, of which all have become partakers, then you are illegitimate children and not sons.

The major issue to me is, a believer in his zeal tries to "appease" God through his good efforts. He has not come to the realization that he has peace with God through Christ. He still views God as some outside task master who weighs his good with his bad and has him under some kind of brutal mandate where he can be dropped if he is not living up to snuff. He is basically placing himself under the law and not seeing himself as alive to God (apart from his works). This only incites the flesh to do even more evil and now he is caught in a vicious cycle of a defiled conscious, and ignorance on how to live right. He must recon himself alive to God through Jesus Christ. Apart from law, apart from works, apart from any effort on his part. Through that freedom of conscious he can now begin to grow and truly serve God. It is the hardest thing in the world to get the conscious settled that God is at peace with you, God is with you now. You do not have to appease him as the pagans do with their false gods. He see's you in Christ, you are free from the slavery of a works based salvation (if you do good, you live, do bad, you die). You can now serve God, not for life, but because you have life and are a member of his family.

i must disagree. If we ARE set free from sin at conversion because of the power of Christ, and scripture says we are NEVER given more than we can take, then ALL sins a christian commits are by choice. We are set free, so we CHOOSE to sin. We can no longer blame satan or anything but ourselves.