Could you vote for a Mormon in the Whitehouse?

[oldzimm]

Oh but the verse is very much appropriate, you are judging Masons by old wives tales about the boogyman and what really brought this verse to my attention was not the part about being judged Per se, it was "New Moon celebration". I don't know how other lodges choose their meeting dates, but our lodge has its meetings the first Monday before a new moon, easy way to remember the meetings.

Since I'm the boogyman, all I can say is Boo.

Have you ever bothered to read what Albert Pike and others wrote about Freemasonry? Pike should know what they believed since he was a 32nd degree holder and was the Grand Commander of the Scottish Rite's Southern Jurisdiction until he died. If he did not know what Freemason's believe, who does?

I do not believe you to be a "boogeyman." I noticed you never answered what degree you are.

Your making your assumptions on hearsay, I'm sure all civic organizations have had disgruntled members or ex members, politics can be very ugly. Matter of fact, the last time we had a debate on Masonry, there was a web sight that I was asked to look at and sure enough it was a disgruntled ex mason.

As I stated in my earlier post, I know two 33rd degree Masons who are good Christian men of good character, whom I will take their word over any other Mason with a high degree, with an ax to grind. Also as stated before, I consider it a insult to drag these men through the mud.

actually Cobalt, if Oldzim has never been asked into the esoteric side of the Masonic order it may speak well of his character.

I want to thank-you 'other one' for the comment on my character, but the truth of the matter is (and to answer Cobalt's question) a man is never asked to be any level of degree in Masons, men aren't even asked to be Masons. For one to become a Mason or go up the chain in Masons, they must enquirer of it themselves.

I myself belong to only a Blue Lodge, I never asked to go any higher. Like in many civic organizations I belong to, I feel more is accomplished on the grassroots level, besides the higher one goes, the more money it will cost and I'm not wild about dishing out money for higher levels when the most good is done locally.

Unfortunately if I ever drop my membership in Masons, it will be because of the high cost of dues, when I first joined, the dues was thirty five dollars, this year the cost is seventy five dollars and I'm having a hard time justifying that cost in my head.

Oh yeah, we can't derail a thread...................Mormon......................there I stated it, are we still okay with this thread?

[anitarose]

No one is derailing the thread because Mormonism and Freemasonry go hand in hand.

Oldzimm, while I like you and all, you are deluded about Freemasonry, like so many other people. Yes there are people who can be Freemasons and "good Christians". However, if they choose to scale the upper eschelons (degrees), they discover to their horror the truth of it. You haven't chosen to do so, therefore you still think there's "nothing wrong" with it.

Not far away from where I live, there's a Baptist church. On the grounds of that church is a Masonic temple. Every day I walked past that place and thought to myself, wow, if those good Baptists only knew the truth.

Most "Christian Freemasons" don't know the truth. I didn't. Not until I learned about it. I grant you, most "Christian Freemasons" don't want to recognize the truth when they see it, when it's proven to them and the truth is hitting them square in the face. Just like everything else, it's deny, deny, deny. That's how the devil works. Satan wants to put a "galut" (veil) over people's eyes about Freemasonry because it's the "upper eschelons" of Freemasonry that give him the worship he wants.

Those Freemasons that are 30th degree and up, that's when they start learning the truth about what they believe. Most Freemasons don't want to go that high. They think it's just a happy little brotherhood, when in reality it's something far different than they believe.

Unfortunately, the same applies to Mormonism. Because Mormonism is so closely based on Freemasonry (Joseph Smith being a 33rd degree), the same can be said there. Most Mormons don't know about the "upper eschelons" of Mormonism, because the one Temple they either are forbidden to go to or have to get a "Temple invitation" to, is in SLC. The temples in their local cities obviously don't do that.

Ask questions, do some history. I started out looking into Freemasonry and Mormonism, because I didn't understand either of them. I did a lot of reading, a lot of studying, and I asked a lot of questions. What I found out is exactly what I'm telling you: Mormonism is Freemasonry couched in "Christian" terms.

Sorry.

a.

[other one]

Oh but the verse is very much appropriate, you are judging Masons by old wives tales about the boogyman and what really brought this verse to my attention was not the part about being judged Per se, it was "New Moon celebration". I don't know how other lodges choose their meeting dates, but our lodge has its meetings the first Monday before a new moon, easy way to remember the meetings.

Since I'm the boogyman, all I can say is Boo.

Have you ever bothered to read what Albert Pike and others wrote about Freemasonry? Pike should know what they believed since he was a 32nd degree holder and was the Grand Commander of the Scottish Rite's Southern Jurisdiction until he died. If he did not know what Freemason's believe, who does?

I do not believe you to be a "boogeyman." I noticed you never answered what degree you are.

Your making your assumptions on hearsay, I'm sure all civic organizations have had disgruntled members or ex members, politics can be very ugly. Matter of fact, the last time we had a debate on Masonry, there was a web sight that I was asked to look at and sure enough it was a disgruntled ex mason.

As I stated in my earlier post, I know two 33rd degree Masons who are good Christian men of good character, whom I will take their word over any other Mason with a high degree, with an ax to grind. Also as stated before, I consider it a insult to drag these men through the mud.

actually Cobalt, if Oldzim has never been asked into the esoteric side of the Masonic order it may speak well of his character.

I want to thank-you 'other one' for the comment on my character, but the truth of the matter is (and to answer Cobalt's question) a man is never asked to be any level of degree in Masons, men aren't even asked to be Masons. For one to become a Mason or go up the chain in Masons, they must enquirer of it themselves.

I myself belong to only a Blue Lodge, I never asked to go any higher. Like in many civic organizations I belong to, I feel more is accomplished on the grassroots level, besides the higher one goes, the more money it will cost and I'm not wild about dishing out money for higher levels when the most good is done locally.

Unfortunately if I ever drop my membership in Masons, it will be because of the high cost of dues, when I first joined, the dues was thirty five dollars, this year the cost is seventy five dollars and I'm having a hard time justifying that cost in my head.

Oh yeah, we can't derail a thread...................Mormon......................there I stated it, are we still okay with this thread?

Zim, you're welcome for the comment, because I did really mean it.

Unfortunately I do know people who are acquainted with the darker side of the Masonic movement and I really do have to agree with Cobalt. I'll just add to that that the Masonic Magizine about three or four years ago did an article on Albert Pike and called him one of the greatest masons.

You may not be a part of that side of things, but you do fund it. Anyway, considering the oaths you take, it's no real surprise that only people who leave the organization would talk about it. I do know from personal experience that those of the darker side of the organization do take those oaths very seriously.

To ask them about what is really going on would be like asking a Muslim if they are trying to subvert the constitution........ of courst they are not going to tell you about those things.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

but back to Mormons, I think I could vote for a mormon depending on the person and where he was within his church. Like any other religion, there are some good people and most people I know are in the church their family is associated with.

[oldzimm]

Antarose I do know the truth and not by hearsay. The truth that I might agree with in your post (I say might because I don't really know much about Mormons) is Joseph Smith may have been a Mason, but being a Mason isn't the reason he off the deep end in his religious thought. If a Mason would of known his religious perspective before he joined, I'm sure he would of been blackballed, we aren't suppose to let religious differences sway our vote when voting for ones membership, but it only takes one blackball.( oh I wouldn't blackball Joesph Smith, no not me )

You can compare the Mormon faith with Freemasonry, but you can't in no way say the two are intertwined. Freemasonry does not place one religion over another

Zim, you're welcome for the comment, because I did really mean it.

Unfortunately I do know people who are acquainted with the darker side of the Masonic movement and I really do have to agree with Cobalt. I'll just add to that that the Masonic Magizine about three or four years ago did an article on Albert Pike and called him one of the greatest masons.

You may not be a part of that side of things, but you do fund it. Anyway, considering the oaths you take, it's no real surprise that only people who leave the organization would talk about it. I do know from personal experience that those of the darker side of the organization do take those oaths very seriously.

To ask them about what is really going on would be like asking a Muslim if they are trying to subvert the constitution........ of courst they are not going to tell you about those things.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

but back to Mormons, I think I could vote for a mormon depending on the person and where he was within his church. Like any other religion, there are some good people and most people I know are in the church their family is associated with.

Albert Pike one of the greatest? Hmmmmm, I doubt it, I think George Washington is probably the greatest American Mason of all, well next to my father of course.

Since this post is about voting for a Mormon for President, I wonder how many of you voted for a Mason for President?

[other one]

zim, time had gotten away from me and that article was in the Scottish Rite Journal, November 1992, Vol.100, Number 11, pg. 6

After reading through this thread I am getting less and less likely to vote for a Mormon for president.

[winsomebulldog]

zim, time had gotten away from me and that article was in the Scottish Rite Journal, November 1992, Vol.100, Number 11, pg. 6

After reading through this thread I am getting less and less likely to vote for a Mormon for president.

I can understand those who dislike the Mormon faith, but what would you do if you were faced with a choice of a President who comes from a hate America cult like Obama does or a Mormon? Obviously, that is not a great choice to be faced with, but I find it much more harmful having someone leading the nation whose spiritual leader is Jeremiah Wright, than being led by a Mormon. Not only that, but I don't see Romney as a Mormon in the strictest sense. If he was, he wouldn't be having the issues today over his flip-flops on things like abortion. A dedicated Mormon would have always been 100 percent pro-life. I suspect Romney's wife is Mormon, and he just happens to go to church there? At least, that is my opinion, based on his liberal compromises while running for Governor in Massachusettes. I am far more concerned over his dedication to the conservative movement than his being a Mormon.

No one "just happens" to go to a Mormon church. It simply does not work that way. However, as I've said before, I think that religion is more a political ploy for the vast majority of politicians rather than an actual conviction.

[oldzimm]

zim, time had gotten away from me and that article was in the Scottish Rite Journal, November 1992, Vol.100, Number 11, pg. 6

After reading through this thread I am getting less and less likely to vote for a Mormon for president.

You save Scottish Rite Journals? I don't save Scottish Rite Journals and I'm a Mason.

[MorningGlory]

No one "just happens" to go to a Mormon church. It simply does not work that way. However, as I've said before, I think that religion is more a political ploy for the vast majority of politicians rather than an actual conviction.

I so agree.

[MorningGlory]

zim, time had gotten away from me and that article was in the Scottish Rite Journal, November 1992, Vol.100, Number 11, pg. 6

After reading through this thread I am getting less and less likely to vote for a Mormon for president.

I can understand those who dislike the Mormon faith, but what would you do if you were faced with a choice of a President who comes from a hate America cult like Obama does or a Mormon? Obviously, that is not a great choice to be faced with, but I find it much more harmful having someone leading the nation whose spiritual leader is Jeremiah Wright, than being led by a Mormon. Not only that, but I don't see Romney as a Mormon in the strictest sense. If he was, he wouldn't be having the issues today over his flip-flops on things like abortion. A dedicated Mormon would have always been 100 percent pro-life. I suspect Romney's wife is Mormon, and he just happens to go to church there? At least, that is my opinion, based on his liberal compromises while running for Governor in Massachusettes. I am far more concerned over his dedication to the conservative movement than his being a Mormon.

Romney is a dyed in the wool Mormon, Butero. His grandfather (or greatgrandfather?) fled the U.S. after the crackdown on Mormonism in Utah and went to Mexico. Romney's father was born there if I remember correctly. Anyway, faced with the choice of Jeremiah Wright or Joseph Smith as a candidate's leader......I would choose neither. Mormonism is just as unchristian as BLT and Romney is a member of a cult. I would rather see Gingrich be the candidate if Santorum drops out....although ANYTHING can happen in this primary season as we have seen in the past few weeks.

[MorningGlory]

zim, time had gotten away from me and that article was in the Scottish Rite Journal, November 1992, Vol.100, Number 11, pg. 6

After reading through this thread I am getting less and less likely to vote for a Mormon for president.

I can understand those who dislike the Mormon faith, but what would you do if you were faced with a choice of a President who comes from a hate America cult like Obama does or a Mormon? Obviously, that is not a great choice to be faced with, but I find it much more harmful having someone leading the nation whose spiritual leader is Jeremiah Wright, than being led by a Mormon. Not only that, but I don't see Romney as a Mormon in the strictest sense. If he was, he wouldn't be having the issues today over his flip-flops on things like abortion. A dedicated Mormon would have always been 100 percent pro-life. I suspect Romney's wife is Mormon, and he just happens to go to church there? At least, that is my opinion, based on his liberal compromises while running for Governor in Massachusettes. I am far more concerned over his dedication to the conservative movement than his being a Mormon.

Romney is a dyed in the wool Mormon, Butero. His grandfather (or greatgrandfather?) fled the U.S. after the crackdown on Mormonism in Utah and went to Mexico. Romney's father was born there if I remember correctly. Anyway, faced with the choice of Jeremiah Wright or Joseph Smith as a candidate's leader......I would choose neither. Mormonism is just as unchristian as BLT and Romney is a member of a cult. I would rather see Gingrich be the candidate if Santorum drops out....although ANYTHING can happen in this primary season as we have seen in the past few weeks.

I am saying he is not a good Mormon. It is like Michael Medved was raised Jewish, but didn't always live like a Jew. There are a lot of Catholics who don't live like Catholics or follow the teachings of the Pope.

What a choice: Jeremiah Wright or Joseph Smith? I would have to go with Joseph Smith, the lesser of two evils.