Saturday or Sunday

[gdemoss]

Hsa 12:10 I have also spoken by the prophets, and I have multiplied visions, and used similitudes, by the ministry of the prophets.

Herein lies the answer. Everything God has done or will do in a general sense can be found in the pictures of the lives of people that God has sovereignly guided and directed to minister unto his chosen ones via the prophets. Everyone who ever wrote a single scripture was a prophet of God.

The argument covering the Sabbath and Law of God is pictured in the OT in Moses bringing the law twice, the first time the covenant being broken due to the golden calf and reckless partying orgy of the children of Israel. The picture clearly shows the law or Word of God coming down from the mountain or heavens unto the people and being destroyed. This is Christs first coming. Then the second coming where the law is established. This is Christs second coming. The period between is the age of grace where God proves that man, even given grace and the power of the Holy Spirit, cannot bring in the kingdom.

We are under grace not law provided that we are walking in the spirit. By walking in the Spirit, which produces the fruit of the Spirit in our lives which there has never been a law written against, we fulfill the righteousness that is in the law including that which encompasses what is taught in the law of the Sabbath. No man walking in the Spirit can covetously use his time working to fulfill the lust of the flesh. People who walk in the spirit, having the mind of Christ, seek not their own but everyone else wealth. It is no longer about stuff and self centered pride of life. Being filled with the grace of God and his truth empowers an individual to do good works always.

Joco, if you want to observe the carnal commandment of the Sabbath during the age of grace, by all means go right ahead. But if you intend to come here and teach us that we must do so or face the judgement of God, then your placing yourself in harms way. The only ones that the Sabbath in a literal sense applies to today are our Jewish brothers and sisters who are currently blinded by God to the identity of their Messiah.

When Jesus returns he will re-institute the Sabbath as an ordinance to be observed by all but not until then. Peace be with you.

In Jesus Name,

Gary

[Fez]

Please define "works".

The things that man does, his labors, his toils, his deeds. They can be bad works such as the works of the flesh in Gal 5 or they can be good works such as mentioned in Eph 2:10 which we should walk in.

Nice answer Gary!

Ok joco, now can you tell me what you consider a "bad' work on the Sabbath, or a "good" work.

Should one for instance still not venture more than a "Sabbath's walk" from one's abode on the Sabbath?

[gdemoss]

Joco, you have rejected that which many have given you. I reject what your teaching. The seeds, however, have been planted and watered. We now must simply wait and allow God to decide whether or not to give the increase. You will be in my prayers.

In Jesus Name,

Gary

[j102]

i dont know why people come here and, with their fancy footwork with the scriptures try to bring people under the law

[gdemoss]

Joco, are you Jewish?

Gary

[gdemoss]

Joco, are you Jewish?

Gary

In my heart through Messiah, but as far as I know, not by birth.

Thank you for the reply. I was just curious.

Gary

[other one]

So I guess the old age argument, discussed over and over on Worthy alone is how one interprets the commandment

There is nothing to interpret. The command is clear; do not work on the 7th day of the week. If you interpret that to mean no work is forbidden, then what work is Yahweh forbidding according to the 4th commandment? If the anti-sabbath arguments on this forum are correct, then absolutely no kind of work is forbidden. Therefore, there is no more Sabbath and no more command to interpret. Is that your interpretation? (Serious question).

Yes it is a very very serious question, for by our Lord's own speech, he has told the Jews that he was working on the Sabbath....

John 5:16-18

16 And for this reason the Jews were persecuting Jesus, because He was doing these things on the Sabbath. 17 But He answered them, "My Father is working until now, and I Myself am working ." 18 For this cause therefore the Jews were seeking all the more to kill Him, because He not only was breaking the Sabbath, but also was calling God His own Father, making Himself equal with God.

NASB

That doesn't answer my question. Nor does Fez's reply. I agree Yeshua was working on Sabbath. What does that mean, that there is no longer a Sabbath? Or that the Sabbath continues, but you can do any kind of work you want on it? Or does it mean it is lawful to do good works on the Sabbath, but bad works are still forbidden? Please answer the questions.

It is a very serious question because if you're pushing the fourth commandment given to Moses, then Jesus sinned and we're all doomed.

Since Yeshua was sinless, that proves he did NOT do forbidden work on the Sabbath in John 5. It has always been acceptable in Yahweh's sight to do good works on the Sabbath, The Jews did not understand that.

It means that Jesus nullified the old covenant and it's laws to his believers..... he brought us a new covenant and it has different commandments.

Old laws taught us to fear God and do what he says--------- new laws teach us to love God and our fellow man, and they went into effect while he was here in the flesh. We are not commanded to set aside one day as a memberance of Gods Sabbath, we are to live our whole lives in rememberanceof him...... Jesus has paid the price for our salvation and when we live in the spirit, living the way that Jesus told us to live, we allow him to be our Lord and that means we must follow not only what he left us in the Bible to do, but to also listen to the Holy Spirit every day as to things we should be dong to help others.

When you are in that line at McDonalds and see someone struggling with the money to pay for thier meal, I know that the Holy Spirit can nudge you to pay for thier meal. Happens to me and to many of the people I am friends with and acquainted with.

Jesus doesn't want you for one day a week...... he wants it all..... all the time. If you're not totally sold out to Jesus every single moment of every day of your life...... something is wrong.

[other one]

So I guess the old age argument, discussed over and over on Worthy alone is how one interprets the commandment

There is nothing to interpret. The command is clear; do not work on the 7th day of the week. If you interpret that to mean no work is forbidden, then what work is Yahweh forbidding according to the 4th commandment? If the anti-sabbath arguments on this forum are correct, then absolutely no kind of work is forbidden. Therefore, there is no more Sabbath and no more command to interpret. Is that your interpretation? (Serious question).

Yes it is a very very serious question, for by our Lord's own speech, he has told the Jews that he was working on the Sabbath....

John 5:16-18

16 And for this reason the Jews were persecuting Jesus, because He was doing these things on the Sabbath. 17 But He answered them, "My Father is working until now, and I Myself am working ." 18 For this cause therefore the Jews were seeking all the more to kill Him, because He not only was breaking the Sabbath, but also was calling God His own Father, making Himself equal with God.

NASB

That doesn't answer my question. Nor does Fez's reply. I agree Yeshua was working on Sabbath. What does that mean, that there is no longer a Sabbath? Or that the Sabbath continues, but you can do any kind of work you want on it? Or does it mean it is lawful to do good works on the Sabbath, but bad works are still forbidden? Please answer the questions.

It is a very serious question because if you're pushing the fourth commandment given to Moses, then Jesus sinned and we're all doomed.

Since Yeshua was sinless, that proves he did NOT do forbidden work on the Sabbath in John 5. It has always been acceptable in Yahweh's sight to do good works on the Sabbath, The Jews did not understand that.

It means that Jesus nullified the old covenant and it's laws to his believers..... he brought us a new covenant and it has different commandments.

Impossible. You are telling me that Yeshua's actions in John 5 nullified the old covenant and started the new covenant? The new covenant could not begin until Yeshua's blood was shed and he died.

Heb 9:15 And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.

Heb 9:16 For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.

Heb 9:17 For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.

Old laws taught us to fear God and do what he says--------- new laws teach us to love God and our fellow man, and they went into effect while he was here in the flesh.

They could not go into effect until he died.

Is this one of those"old laws" that taught us to fear God? Deut 6:5 And you shall love Yahweh your Elohim with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your might.

Is this one of those "new laws" that teaches us to love God? Mat 22:37 And you shall love Yahweh your Elohim with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your might.

We are not commanded to set aside one day as a memberance of Gods Sabbath, we are to live our whole lives in rememberanceof him......

Yes, we are to live our whole lives in remembrance of Him and we are to cease from working on the 7th day of every week to honor Him and follow His example.

Jesus has paid the price for our salvation and when we live in the spirit, living the way that Jesus told us to live, we allow him to be our Lord and that means we must follow not only what he left us in the Bible to do, but to also listen to the Holy Spirit every day as to things we should be dong to help others.

I agree.

When you are in that line at McDonalds and see someone struggling with the money to pay for thier meal, I know that the Holy Spirit can nudge you to pay for thier meal. Happens to me and to many of the people I am friends with and acquainted with.

Jesus doesn't want you for one day a week...... he wants it all..... all the time. If you're not totally sold out to Jesus every single moment of every day of your life...... something is wrong.

I agree. However, concerning the Sabbath, we are not talking about Jesus wanting us one day a week. It is His Father Yahweh that commands our presence in a holy convocation on the 7th day, the only day He sanctified and blessed. It is our Creator and One True Elohim who commands us to REMEMBER His Sabbath and honor Him by not doing our own ways on the Sabbath (Ex 20:8-11; Isa 58).

Yehweh is not Jesus's Father.

[Willa]

I understand that keeping the sabboth is the only commandment not repeated in the New Testament. On the other hand, probably that is one that was meant only for Judism, as it is one of the things connected with the Mosaic covenant along with circumcision. But we are Christians and under the new covenant. Galatians 2:16, 3:1-3 & 10-13, 5:4-6 are all very hard on those who would return to trying to keep the law , even saying they are cursed and fallen from grace! So I really don't think it matters what day that you worship on but that you not become entanged in legalism. Jesus is the fulfillment of the Sabboth. When we enter into His rest we cease from our own good works and stuggles to keep the law and rest in Christ's completed work. He kept the law perfectly and shed His blood so that we can enter heaven.

Some peoples jobs keep them from worshipping on Sunday so they worship on Saturday night or Wednesday night. I celebrate the resurrection on Sunday, the first day of the week, as well as Wednesday, and less formally all week . That does not make me any more or less spiritual.

[other one]

I agree. However, concerning the Sabbath, we are not talking about Jesus wanting us one day a week. It is His Father Yahweh that commands our presence in a holy convocation on the 7th day, the only day He sanctified and blessed. It is our Creator and One True Elohim who commands us to REMEMBER His Sabbath and honor Him by not doing our own ways on the Sabbath (Ex 20:8-11; Isa 58).

Yehweh is not Jesus's Father.

Then who is?

Jesus existed in the form of God before he set that aside and lowered his physical status as a human..... Jesus himself is/was and always will be Yehweh.... and the other third of the trinity "The Father" is who caused Mary to become pregnant with Jesus through the actions of the Holy Spirit.....

And for my Islamic friends, I do not believe that God came down here and had sex with mary; she was still a virgin when Jesus was born......, so stay off my back about that.