Does experience shape our doctrine

[Mark2005]

If scripture does not match one's experience, what use is it?

[OneLight]

If scripture does not match one's experience, what use is it?

You have me puzzled here, my friend. I have had many experiences that are not found in scripture. Care to expound on your statement we we can have a better understanding?

[nebula]

It's not that they are irrelevant, but that they should not be used to form doctrine. Experiences are always relevant and have something to teach us. Learning from our mistakes is one way that experiences are valuable tools for learning.

But what if your doctrine is wrong and experience teaches this to you?

That is why it should not be relied upon for doctrine. We test everything by the Scriptures. Doctrine is defined as those teachings of Scripture that provide a foundation for practical Christian living. Experiences don't teach doctrine. We use doctrine to test our experiences to know how this experience relates to God's self-disclosure. God uses our experiences. I am not saying that they have no value.

Experience is good teacher where the mundane things of this life is concerned, but experience is a poor teacher when it comes to doctrine. ...

But the experiences recorded in the Bible are used to formulate doctrine, are they not?

Or what of the Cessationist who encounters a miracle? I recall a testimony of a woman working for Wycliff helping to translate the Bible to a tribe in (I believe) South America. Not long after they finished translating James and giving it to the people, one man came to her with the passage: "14 Is anyone among you sick ? Then he must call for the elders of the church and they are to pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord ; 15 and the prayer offered in faith will restore the one who is sick, and the Lord will raise him up, and if he has committed sins, they will be forgiven him." (James 5) He was sick, so he was coming to her to pray for his healing, as the Scripture says. She wanted to tell him how it doesn't work that way, but instead did as he requested, figuring she'd be able to explain it better after nothing happened. But, the man was healed right in front of her. He walked away praising God; she was left behind in shock. Her whole doctrine was turned upside-down by her experience.

I personally used to believe in the doctrine of judging sin - until I found myself the recipient of such judging and realized just how unloving it was. My experience led to my changing of doctrine.

[Mark2005]

Yes, exactly, that person, you and many others had their ideas changed because of what they personally experienced.

There are many ways of interpreting what someone else has written. That's why we have so many different churches and denominations. But when a person can say "I KNOW what happened to me", that tends to trump everything else in that individual's life.

[Mark2005]

If scripture does not match one's experience, what use is it?

You have me puzzled here, my friend. I have had many experiences that are not found in scripture. Care to expound on your statement we we can have a better understanding?

We all have many experiences not found in scripture. Sometimes scriptures can help us better understand or make sense of what we experience. But imagine the plight of people in Bible days, who had limited written scriptures with which to compare their experiences with.

What I meant was many of us encounter times when our experiences and scripture are at odds with one another.

The Bible may say things such as "God loves the world", or "Pray for one another and be healed" or "the prayer of a righteous man availeth much" or "my God will supply all your needs"

But we may experience just the opposite: God doesn't seem to love us, we pray and yet are not healed, we pray and nothing happens or we have legit needs that are not met.

So then we are left in a bit of a quandry as to what to believe? More often than not, most persons (self included) tend to reach the conclusion: "Well, I KNOW what happened in my case. So all that stuff written in the Bible must not really be true or have some other application than in my case." That makes it all the more difficult to believe in anything the next time around.

Edited May 2, 2012 by Mark2005

[Fez]

If you side with fear....... Your done........ There is your factor, and it's fear which is rooted in the fear of death which Jesus delivered us from. 58 times to fear not, 48 times to be not afraid, take no thought, be careful for nothing (Worry) over and over we are warned about fear.

There have been some wonderful and seasoned answers to this post! Thank you all.

I would like to comment on the above quote if I may.

Very often, in my experience with talking to people and trying to minister to them (and if I must admit, with myself as well), fear plays a big part in our walk, especially if it has been shaped by past experiences where something really bad happened and we fear it might happen again, or we fear something happening in the future.

I posted some time back on asking people what their greatest fear or concern regarding their walk was, today. And there were many fears, mine included.

A very wise and seasoned elder in my church (younger than me, but wiser none the less!), once said;

"That which we fear most has not yet occurred. So why fear".

He is right of course, but it is easier said than done! This is where our Faith and the foundation of pure scripture should step in, but often does not.

Shiloh and others are correct in saying (in essence) that, despite experience, which can help us in decision making, we are to stand on the Word and the Word alone in our walk. We can apply scripture in different ways in our daily lives (because we are all different), but the outcome, the decision, must stand firmly on the foundation of scripture as scripture was intended. (hope I got that across Ok).

The reason I asked the question in the first place is because on this wonderful site I see wonderful, grace filled posts, and I also see (in some posters), an underlying desperation, and sometimes bitterness and self loathing shining through in answers. I also see skewed theology (and I don't judge here, maybe some of my theology is a little off track, but when 30 people are telling you that you are off track, perhaps you should listen? I would)

I wondered to myself why this was, and am just searching for answers that are hard to come by without knowing the person or their circumstances, past or present.

Blessings.

[Guest]

... But we may experience just the opposite: God doesn't seem to love us, we pray and yet are not healed, we pray and nothing happens or we have legit needs that are not met.

So then we are left in a bit of a quandary as to what to believe....

We Are Not

For what if some did not believe? shall their unbelief make the faith of God without effect?

God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged. Romans 3:3-4

~

Step

For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith. Romans 1:17

By Step

He restoreth my soul: he leadeth me in the paths of righteousness for his name's sake. Psalms 23:3

I Grow A Little Closer

I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.

And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith. Romans 12:1-3

I Find My Life Is Filled With An Ever Growing Trust In The Faithfulness Of The LORD Jesus

Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness.

But grow in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and for ever. Amen. 2 Peter 3:17-18

And Not In My Self-Righteousness Nor Is It In Any Other Man-Made Process

So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. Romans 10:17

In God I Trust

~

Believe

But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;

That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed. Romans 10:8-11

And Be Blesssed Beloved

Love, Joe

[other one]

Problem that I see in this is what theology to you listen to and believe If I believed in the Theologians that make up the Church of Christ I'd believe that most all of you are going to hell. It's experience (part of which is your own bible reading) that lets you decide on your own doctrine.

[enoob57]

Maybe.......

[OneLight]

If scripture does not match one's experience, what use is it?

You have me puzzled here, my friend. I have had many experiences that are not found in scripture. Care to expound on your statement we we can have a better understanding?

We all have many experiences not found in scripture. Sometimes scriptures can help us better understand or make sense of what we experience. But imagine the plight of people in Bible days, who had limited written scriptures with which to compare their experiences with.

What I meant was many of us encounter times when our experiences and scripture are at odds with one another.

The Bible may say things such as "God loves the world", or "Pray for one another and be healed" or "the prayer of a righteous man availeth much" or "my God will supply all your needs"

But we may experience just the opposite: God doesn't seem to love us, we pray and yet are not healed, we pray and nothing happens or we have legit needs that are not met.

So then we are left in a bit of a quandry as to what to believe? More often than not, most persons (self included) tend to reach the conclusion: "Well, I KNOW what happened in my case. So all that stuff written in the Bible must not really be true or have some other application than in my case." That makes it all the more difficult to believe in anything the next time around.

Nobody has the right to stand on one scripture alone and blame God for not fulfilling them. That is the problem when someone take scripture out of context.

• God loves the world - this is so true when you consider that He is speaking of His creation, not the sin within it. God loves every person, but hates their sin.
  
  
• Confess your trespasses to one another, and pray for one another, that you may be healed. The effective, fervent prayer of a righteous man avails much. - Healing can mean more then just an illness. It can also be a marriage, a financial problem, an error in your walk with Christ ... to teach someone that is means health only causes people to have false hopes when it comes to an illness.
  
  
• And my God shall supply all your need according to His riches in glory by Christ Jesus. - this does not promise someone a full stomach, a bountiful bank account, a mansion, or the desires of our wants. He does provide out needs. The problem is when we inject our wants as our needs.

Try understanding that our will is not always the will of God. Is everyone if perfect health, a millionaire, or live a hassle free life? If you follow the "Name it and Claim it" - "Word of Faith" - "Positive Thinking" or any other false teachings, you will always be disappointed because it is not His word you are following , by mans doctrine. God has His own will for a life, which we need to just trust Him as we follow Him through each day, being content with what we have. Were the Apostles rich? Where they without illnesses? Were they always positive?