notes on dinos and flood...

[bornagain2011]

Gary,

I saw you had captured the elusive horsefish....so therfore I retract my last statement!

[bornagain2011]

Can you post the verse that mentions dinosaurs?

this would be a brachiosaur

Job 40:15-18

New King James Version (NKJV)

¹⁵ “Look now at the behemoth, which I made along with you;

He eats grass like an ox.

¹⁶ See now, his strength is in his hips,

And his power is in his stomach muscles.

¹⁷ He moves his tail like a cedar;

The sinews of his thighs are tightly knit.

¹⁸ His bones are like beams of bronze,

His ribs like bars of iron.

this would be a stegasaur

Job 41:15-17

New King James Version (NKJV)

¹⁵ His rows of scales are his pride,

Shut up tightly as with a seal;

¹⁶ One is so near another

That no air can come between them;

¹⁷ They are joined one to another,

They stick together and cannot be parted.

just a few examples, God bless.

thank you for posting this, I posted something like this earlier and no one really responded. I would like to know what the skeptics think the Bible is talking about in the first part! What animal that we know of fits that discription? I would like them to enlighten me a bit!

[hippias]

Can you post the verse that mentions dinosaurs?

this would be a brachiosaur

Job 40:15-18

New King James Version (NKJV)

¹⁵ “Look now at the behemoth, which I made along with you;

He eats grass like an ox.

¹⁶ See now, his strength is in his hips,

And his power is in his stomach muscles.

¹⁷ He moves his tail like a cedar;

The sinews of his thighs are tightly knit.

¹⁸ His bones are like beams of bronze,

His ribs like bars of iron.

this would be a stegasaur

Job 41:15-17

New King James Version (NKJV)

¹⁵ His rows of scales are his pride,

Shut up tightly as with a seal;

¹⁶ One is so near another

That no air can come between them;

¹⁷ They are joined one to another,

They stick together and cannot be parted.

just a few examples, God bless.

Could you explain why on earth an brachiosaur should be meant by this description and no other animal? Or why a brachiosaur should fit this description in the first place? I really don't know that the bones of that dinosaur is particular like bronze/ iron.

The same I would like to know about the other verses which you claimed to describe a stegosaur. Here in particular the scales are said to be joint to another yet thus the back-scales of a stegosaur are usually not displayed.

[wingnut-]

Well, because the brachiosaur ate plants, the fact that behemoth implies the massive size, along with the other descriptors used, and specifically, the mention of the tail being like a cedar. As for the stegosaur, because of the mention of the rows of scales being so near one another that no air can pass between them. Of course I am no dinosaur expert, so my personal visualization could be inaccurate and this could be describing another dinosaur, but there is little doubt these are dinosaurs. God bless.

[MorningGlory]

Well, because the brachiosaur ate plants, the fact that behemoth implies the massive size, along with the other descriptors used, and specifically, the mention of the tail being like a cedar. As for the stegosaur, because of the mention of the rows of scales being so near one another that no air can pass between them. Of course I am no dinosaur expert, so my personal visualization could be inaccurate and this could be describing another dinosaur, but there is little doubt these are dinosaurs. God bless.

So they are THERE.....then no further mention of them, ever? I just don't see that happening.

[hippias]

Well, because the brachiosaur ate plants, the fact that behemoth implies the massive size, along with the other descriptors used, and specifically, the mention of the tail being like a cedar. As for the stegosaur, because of the mention of the rows of scales being so near one another that no air can pass between them. Of course I am no dinosaur expert, so my personal visualization could be inaccurate and this could be describing another dinosaur, but there is little doubt these are dinosaurs. God bless.

O.K. we agree there in your first passage a big animal is meant that ate plants (grass to be precise). How now? There are thousands. Its tail is, to be precise again, described to MOVE like a cedar, whatever that means. But what about the bronze/iron like bones? The sinews on the hips? The muscels in the stomach? Does that point to a brachiosaurus and only to a brachiosaurus? That seems very doubtful. Or is it just convinient for your argument's sake to ignore these verses? If I would claim this is an hippo or elephant, how would you refute my claim?

The same holds for your claim about the stegosaurus: Its scales, if you refer to those on its back, were NOT so tight that air couldn't pass through, as far I know (look at a picture in the Wikipedia), so a stegosaurus couldn't be meant here. These words perhaps fit better to a fish or a reptile. What about a turtle: This could be possible if the segments of the shell are called scales here.

That you are no expert in dinosaurs you can't be blamed for, neither am I, but that you are very willing to believe any claim about them as long as it serves your preconceptions, is something you should reconsider. Especially when one is not particularly knowledgable in the subject.

P.S. You also claimed that these two "examples" are just a few in the bible, please show us another three, if your words are meaningful.

[wingnut-]

There is no animal on this planet that I know of which would match those descriptors other than a dinosaur, were the bones of brachiosaur not large, large enough to seem like bronze and iron to a man at the beginning of time? To a person who would have walked with them, they would have appeared extremely muscular I suspect. As for the tail, well, cedars are rather large and sturdy trees, so a comparison to a hippo or elephant with their "wet noodle" tails is a bit illogical, so that comparison typically illicits a chuckle from me.

Looking at a stegosaur from the side, the row of scales on their back has no openings, but as i said, this could be another dinosaur and not necessarily what i am visualizing when reading the passage. If you want to see more examples, read Job, it would be easier than me posting it here, it's already been written, chapter 41. For me it isn't about convenience, just logic, there are no creatures that match those descriptions in the world we live in. God bless.

[wingnut-]

Well, because the brachiosaur ate plants, the fact that behemoth implies the massive size, along with the other descriptors used, and specifically, the mention of the tail being like a cedar. As for the stegosaur, because of the mention of the rows of scales being so near one another that no air can pass between them. Of course I am no dinosaur expert, so my personal visualization could be inaccurate and this could be describing another dinosaur, but there is little doubt these are dinosaurs. God bless.

So they are THERE.....then no further mention of them, ever? I just don't see that happening.

Why not, they are extinct aren't they?

[hippias]

There is no animal on this planet that I know of which would match those descriptors other than a dinosaur, were the bones of brachiosaur not large, large enough to seem like bronze and iron to a man at the beginning of time? To a person who would have walked with them, they would have appeared extremely muscular I suspect. As for the tail, well, cedars are rather large and sturdy trees, so a comparison to a hippo or elephant with their "wet noodle" tails is a bit illogical, so that comparison typically illicits a chuckle from me.

Looking at a stegosaur from the side, the row of scales on their back has no openings, but as i said, this could be another dinosaur and not necessarily what i am visualizing when reading the passage. If you want to see more examples, read Job, it would be easier than me posting it here, it's already been written, chapter 41. For me it isn't about convenience, just logic, there are no creatures that match those descriptions in the world we live in. God bless.

Your argument only works because you claim that a bone like bronze/iron is the same as a large bone, a sentiment that is more than doubtful. And your ignorance of any other animal that would fit the description is hardly convincing, because nobody's ignorance proves anything. Especially when the dinosaurs that you claimed to fit the description, on closer inspection utterly fail to show the characteristcs you want to see in them. The same goes with the tail: The Bible says it MOVES like a cedar, not that it is as long as a cedar. How do you know in which way a brachiosaurs's tail moved? Perhaps you should take heed of this:

12 For the day of the Lord of hosts shall be upon every one that is proud and lofty, and upon every one that is lifted up; and he shall be brought low: 13 And upon all the cedars of Lebanon, that are high and lifted up, and upon all the oaks of Bashan, 14 And upon all the high mountains, and upon all the hills that are lifted up, (Isaiah 2:12-14)

A cedar trees are here a symbol of worldly pride, so you might have to look for a dinosaur with an errect tail swinging in a particular proud fashion.

Since you agree that stegosaur does not fit the description very well, why do you insist that is a dinosaur anyway? Tight-fitted scales are hardly a sufficient description of any animal, there are thousands of candidates. The claim that no air can come through a stegosaur's scales is laughable from every point of view let it be sideways, backwards or overhead.

With regard to the above words and to my elephant/hippo remark I could just the same claim as you do, that I don't know any dinosaur fitting the description hence it has to be an elephant! Just imagine how extremely muscular an elephant must have appeared to a man from the beginning time. And I have seen one in the zoo: its tail moved exactly like a cedar!

You refute the elephant because of its tail but the brachiosaur's bones do not resemble iron or bronze. Again: Are the sinews of a brachiosaur tightly knit? Does it have particular power in its stomach muscle or hip?

As for Hiob 41 - the leviathan - tell me, what dinosaur is this? What dinosaur did spit fire (19 Out of his mouth go burning lamps, and sparks of fire leap out. 20 Out of his nostrils goeth smoke, as out of a seething pot or caldron. 21 His breath kindleth coals, and a flame goeth out of his mouth)? Please, please enlighten me!

P.S. I begged for five examples: four to go, if you please.

[MorningGlory]

Why not, they are extinct aren't they?

Sure they are. But they have been extinct for millions of years and man has only been around a few thousand.