Exodus Passover: Did the firstborn of Egypt go to heaven?

[thomas t]

Hello Selene,

may I point out that some protagonists here at Worthy have already reminded you of the Romans passage which shows that this third group you are talking of does not have an excuse?

And I would like to add that in Matthew 25, Jesus cited only two groups for judgement in the various examples he gave about this.

I am referring to PEOPLE who have never heard of the only possible way to eternal life through Jesus Christ,

Usually, you now add that in Saudi Arabia, it's forbidden to evangelize. Nevertheless ( and it was you who you told me), if one person commits a sin, the entire tribe suffers. Let's apply this to Saudi Arabia. If the government is cruel enough to prevent religous freedom from happening, then the entire nation suffers, of course.

Blessings

Thomas

[Steve_S]

This thread has been going for a while and there's been a lot of back and forth. What is so difficult to understand with regards to:

Joh 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

It's crystal clear.

As I always pointed out to you, Christ is salvation. But in order for a person to either accept or reject Christ, he/she must first hear of Christ. As I even pointed out to you, there are millions of people who died before Christ came to earth incarnated as man. How can these people hear of Christ when they were born in a time before Christ came to earth? Are they all condemned to Hell? And what of the person today who never heard of Christ or read the Holy Bible? This is why I told you in the beginning that I don't know where these people would be and God will be the one to judge them. You, on the other hand, already claim to know where they will be.

Only the unbeliever who deliberately reject God will not be saved. That is clearly taught in the Bible.

I know what the Bible says. There is no Biblical caveat on this matter. It says that people who reject God will not be saved and also says that the only way to the Father is through the Son. Those two things aren't mutually exclusive. If the only way to the Father is through the Son then of course those who reject Him will not get salvation. But only....means only. This would be a lie, otherwise, and God doesn't lie.

You and I both agree that the only way to salvation is Jesus Christ. You and I both agree that those who rejected Christ will not be saved. The only disagreement between you and me are those who have not heard of Jesus Christ. In other words, my brother, the Bible is silent about what happens to those who have never heard of Christ. It does not say if they are saved or not.....only that God will judge them. I go by what the Bible says on this one.....that God will be the one to judge them. This is why I told you that I don't know what happens to them. I don't know simply because I don't know God's judgement on them. You, on the other hand, have already judged them unsaved. That's the difference.

I haven't judged anyone, the Bible states that the only way to the father is through the Son, clearly. If trusting Jesus as your Lord and Savior and being washed in the blood of his sacrifice is the only possible way to eternal life then how on earth are there any others.

Brother Steven, I am not referring to the only possible way to eternal life. I am referring to PEOPLE who have never heard of the only possible way to eternal life through Jesus Christ, but you seem to ignore that. Do you not remember in your post? You asked me what happens to these people. My response is I don't know what happens to them, but God will be the one to judge them. And you disagreed with me. Don't you understand that there are even millions of people born before Christ came to earth, and these people never heard of Him?

You only see people who accepted Christ and people who rejected Christ. But there is a third group.....people who NEITHER accepted nor rejected Him simply because they never heard of Him.

There is no stipulation for having heard the message as to whether or not you accept Him. Evangelism would be irrelevant if it were possible to get to heaven without accepting Jesus.

[Steve_S]

Hello Selene,

may I point out that some protagonists here at Worthy have already reminded you of the Romans passage which shows that this third group you are talking of does not have an excuse?

And I would like to add that in Matthew 25, Jesus cited only two groups for judgement in the various examples he gave about this.

I am referring to PEOPLE who have never heard of the only possible way to eternal life through Jesus Christ,

Usually, you now add that in Saudi Arabia, it's forbidden to evangelize. Nevertheless ( and it was you who you told me), if one person commits a sin, the entire tribe suffers. Let's apply this to Saudi Arabia. If the government is cruel enough to prevent religous freedom from happening, then the entire nation suffers, of course.

Blessings

Thomas

Yes, and I also responded to their comments. There is no excuse when it comes to the Law because the Law is already written in the hearts of men. For example, everyone (including atheists) know that it is wrong to murder, steal, and lie; therefore, there is no excuse for that. That is what Romans is saying. However, when it comes to Christ.....not everyone knows about Christ. Jesus told us to preach about Him because not everyone knows about Him. He did not tell us to go out and preach about murder, stealing, or lying because all people should already know these things.

But everyone has broken the law, that's why we need Jesus. So if there's no excuse for breaking the law and you don't have Jesus how are you to get eternal life. This is why Jesus died for us in the first place. So if there's no excuse when it comes to the law and no human can hold to the law then how can eternal life be achieved without the washing blood of the Lamb?

[Steve_S]

Hello Selene,

may I point out that some protagonists here at Worthy have already reminded you of the Romans passage which shows that this third group you are talking of does not have an excuse?

And I would like to add that in Matthew 25, Jesus cited only two groups for judgement in the various examples he gave about this.

I am referring to PEOPLE who have never heard of the only possible way to eternal life through Jesus Christ,

Usually, you now add that in Saudi Arabia, it's forbidden to evangelize. Nevertheless ( and it was you who you told me), if one person commits a sin, the entire tribe suffers. Let's apply this to Saudi Arabia. If the government is cruel enough to prevent religous freedom from happening, then the entire nation suffers, of course.

Blessings

Thomas

Yes, and I also responded to their comments. There is no excuse when it comes to the Law because the Law is already written in the hearts of men. For example, everyone (including atheists) know that it is wrong to murder, steal, and lie; therefore, there is no excuse for that. That is what Romans is saying. However, when it comes to Christ.....not everyone knows about Christ. Jesus told us to preach about Him because not everyone knows about Him. He did not tell us to go out and preach about murder, stealing, or lying because all people should already know these things.

But everyone has broken the law, that's why we need Jesus. So if there's no excuse for breaking the law and you don't have Jesus how are you to get eternal life. This is why Jesus died for us in the first place. So if there's no excuse when it comes to the law and no human can hold to the law then how can eternal life be achieved without the washing blood of the Lamb?

Even those who know Jesus have broken the law, which is why we confess our sins.

Simple confession that you are a sinner is inadequate for salvation, though. Atonement requires blood, though, and it took Jesus' sacrifice to atone for our sin and cleanse us of our iniquity (heb 10:10). There's nothing we can do as human beings to absolve ourselves of this, it's a direct gift from God (eph 2:8). We couldn't get eternal life without Jesus' death, that's why His dying was so important for mankind. Jesus is our high priest forever after the order of Melchizedek. We MUST have him to get to the Father and we need no human absolution (Heb 7).

[simplejeff]

On 9/15/2012 at 8:32 PM, Guest LadyC said:

i see nothing in scripture that says the children fought against going to Him. Jesus told His disciples to allow the children to come to Him and to stop trying to stop them. in other words, "get out of the way of these kids so they can see me!" sure, the parents brought them to where He was. we don't let our kids run around without their parents during this day and age either.

and who were their parents?

they were the israelites. they were the believers.

nothing in scripture gives evidence that children of unbelievers are given the same consideration as those of believers. it is something that we simply can not know for certain. we can simply make educated guesses based on our understanding of scripture and the nature of God. and my understanding of scripture and God's nature is that it's quite possible that the firstborn of the egyptians did not go to heaven when God slayed them.

 

did you read the post a ways back that i addressed to you, about your children? you'd asked about your 2 year old. this whole debate really has no bearing on what would happen to your child, because you are a believer, and through you, they are sanctified til the day when they can make their own choice.

Interesting old thread and topic and sub-topics from a few years ago.  Similar questions came up recently without resolution.   I stopped reading and quoting after part way through,  to keep it shorter... time wise and readable wise...

On 9/15/2012 at 9:02 PM, Steve_S said:

 

Actually, in the verses you quoted it sort of was specified.... "little ones which believe in me."

 

On 9/15/2012 at 9:09 PM, Steve_S said:

That's not what I was referring to........

 

But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and [that] he were drowned in the depth of the sea.

 

What about offending one of the ones who don't believe in Him, is the penalty the same? Why would he specify "believe in me?"

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QUOTE (missing author): 0n 9/15/2012 about 9:23 PM :

"That is true. And further in Matthew 15, a pagan woman came to Jesus asking to heal her daughter. Jesus told her that He was sent only to the lost sheep of Israel and even told her that it is wrong to give the food of the children to dogs. So, in this passage, whose children was Jesus referring to to the Caanite woman? In the end, even Christ healed the daughter of the pagan woman, not because she was pagan, but because of her faith. This story is told in the same chapter.

Matthew 15:22 A Canaanite woman from that vicinity came to him, crying out, "Lord, Son of David, have mercy on me! My daughter is suffering terribly from demon-possession." Jesus did not answer a word. So his disciples came to him and urged him, "Send her away, for she keeps crying out after us." He answered, "I was sent only to the lost sheep of Israel." The woman came and knelt before him. "Lord, help me!" she said. He replied, "It is not right to take the children's bread and toss it to their dogs." "

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[Danger Noodle]

Of course the first born babies of Egypt went to heaven. God's death angel took away all first born. Humans and creatures. The first born babies of Egypt were not sinful. Nor were they able to follow the god's of their families. Nor were they able to recognize Jehovah. They were taken to God in their innocence as all babies are. 

 

[Danger Noodle]

Luke 18:16-17, Jesus remarked: “Let the little children come to Me, and do not forbid them; for of such is the kingdom of God. Assuredly, I say to you, whoever does not receive the kingdom of God as a little child will by no means enter it.”

[TheMatrixHasU71]

On ‎9‎/‎3‎/‎2012 at 4:30 PM, IatePistachiosSigningUp said:

Did the firstborn of Egypt end up in heaven, despite that they were born of the oppressive Egyptians? And since they're firstborn, does that mean that they could have been any age, and were of the age of accountablity?

The very youngest ones, most certainly. What would be the cutoff age though? No way of knowing.