Exodus Passover: Did the firstborn of Egypt go to heaven?

[wingnut-]

There will be no one who can claim "ignorance" at the judgment. The earth and the heavens testify to GOD's existance. The entirety of scripture teaches of the need for and the coming of a Savior. The first was in the Garden of Eden, where GOD shed innocent blood to cover Adam and Eve's neckedness (sin). No one get's to the Father but through Christ.

There are people in this world today who have never read the Holy Bible nor heard of the Jesus of the Bible because they were raised in another religion. Some countries such as those in Saudi Arabia have a ban on the Holy Bible, and Christian missionaries are forbidden from evangelizing there. So, it would make it difficult for anyone to read the Bible or hear the gospel preached in such countries, and it would not be their fault.

Romans 1:20

New King James Version (NKJV)

²⁰ For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse,

Instead of quoting scripture, why don't you just simply say what's on your mind? Are you telling me that it is wrong to pray for God's mercy for everyone including those who don't know him and only pray for Christians?

I think the word of God says what needed to be addressed, and pretty much addresses anything that needs addressing, don't you? If you prefer my words then I will say it like this, it would be their fault, despite what you want to think, as God clearly indicates in the scripture I posted, they are without excuse. God bless.

With this I disagree.....because we were once the Gentiles. God revealed Himself only to the Jewish people. After that, Christ sent His Apostles to preach the Gospel to the world so the Gentiles would know about Him. If you truely believed this, then there is no reason for Christians to go out into the world to evangelize. The fact that we evangelize shows that there are still people out there who do not know Him, and it is not their fault. If a little child was born into a Hindu family and that child dies, will that child be in Hell for you?

We spread the Gospel because Christ commanded us to do it so that other people would know Him and also be saved.

I doubt that any child that has not reached the age of accountability would be in hell, nor did I ever say any such thing. You can assume things about me and others all you like, I am not going to argue or reason with you, because I have seen in this thread and others that you simply refuse to acknowledge anything from scripture that does not align with what you would like to believe. God bless.

[wingnut-]

I don't ignore scripture. I simply perfer that you say what is in your mind. If you believe that all people already know God, then perhaps, you should ask yourself why you continue to evangelize? The fact that you continue to evangelize only shows that you took that scripture out of context. It was addressed to Christians, not to the pagans. St. Paul did not write that letter to the pagans, but to the Christians in Rome and he was addressing the issue of homosexuality.

Let me break this down for you.

I don't ignore scripture. Please show me in my post where I said that you ignore scripture.

I simply perfer that you say what is in your mind. The passage I posted said what was on my mind, and I thought maybe God's word would hold more meaning for you than my words.

If you believe that all people already know God, then perhaps, you should ask yourself why you continue to evangelize? Please show me in my post where I said anything even closely resembling this.

The fact that you continue to evangelize only shows that you took that scripture out of context. It was addressed to Christians, not to the pagans. Would you like to explain to me how I am taking this out of context, because it appears clear to me, and to almost all Christians I know, so far, you are the only exception. Also, I find it puzzling that you would assert that God's word does not apply to everyone, and choose to decide for yourself what is for this group and what is for that group.

St. Paul did not write that letter to the pagans, but to the Christians in Rome and he was addressing the issue of homosexuality. Really, cause my understanding is that Paul was the apostle chosen specifically for the gentiles, and what good is it to preach to only those who are saved. Exactly how does one reach an unbeliever if scripture is unacceptable.

Perhaps the issue isn't with you not acknowledging scripture, but with anything that you read, because your comprehension of what I post is clearly poor. That being said, I will bow out of this conversation, because it is pointless, and I doubt you will understand any of this either.

[wingnut-]

I was right, you don't comprehend what you read, which is probably why you always end up in disagreements, enough said. I am bowing out, so maybe this thread will go back to the OP.

[Fez]

The first step to salvation is hearing the gospel, not reading it, nor for that matter understanding it that well. The first step is hearing.

And there are probably millions of people who have not heard the gospel, I think that is a fair assumption.

Our command is to make disciples of nations, and we do that by first telling people about the gospel so that they may hear.

Do we do a good job at following that commandment? I don't think we do, collectively. Individually we do, and the proof is out there for all to see.

But the fact that there are many who have not heard? Perhaps that is part of God's greater plan. The bible does not tell us why so many may never hear, just as it does not tell us what happens to children who die, or the mentally disabled who die.

The point is that we serve a Loving and Just God, who's main goal for us is for us to be holy in His eyes. That's all He wants.

If we concentrated on being Holy in His eyes, the rest would follow, and a lot of argument and conjecture would be moot.

[IatePistachiosSigningUp]

There will be no one who can claim "ignorance" at the judgment. The earth and the heavens testify to GOD's existance. The entirety of scripture teaches of the need for and the coming of a Savior. The first was in the Garden of Eden, where GOD shed innocent blood to cover Adam and Eve's neckedness (sin). No one get's to the Father but through Christ.

There are people in this world today who have never read the Holy Bible nor heard of the Jesus of the Bible because they were raised in another religion. Some countries such as those in Saudi Arabia have a ban on the Holy Bible, and Christian missionaries are forbidden from evangelizing there. So, it would make it difficult for anyone to read the Bible or hear the gospel preached in such countries, and it would not be their fault.

Romans 1:20

New King James Version (NKJV)

²⁰ For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse,

Instead of quoting scripture, why don't you just simply say what's on your mind? Are you telling me that it is wrong to pray for God's mercy for everyone including those who don't know him and only pray for Christians?

I think the word of God says what needed to be addressed, and pretty much addresses anything that needs addressing, don't you? If you prefer my words then I will say it like this, it would be their fault, despite what you want to think, as God clearly indicates in the scripture I posted, they are without excuse. God bless.

With this I disagree.....because we were once the Gentiles. God revealed Himself only to the Jewish people. After that, Christ sent His Apostles to preach the Gospel to the world so the Gentiles would know about Him. If you truely believed this, then there is no reason for Christians to go out into the world to evangelize. The fact that we evangelize shows that there are still people out there who do not know Him, and it is not their fault. If a little child was born into a Hindu family and that child dies, will that child be in Hell for you?

We spread the Gospel because Christ commanded us to do it so that other people would know Him and also be saved.

I doubt that any child that has not reached the age of accountability would be in hell, nor did I ever say any such thing. You can assume things about me and others all you like, I am not going to argue or reason with you, because I have seen in this thread and others that you simply refuse to acknowledge anything from scripture that does not align with what you would like to believe. God bless.

I don't ignore scripture. I simply perfer that you say what is in your mind. If you believe that all people already know God, then perhaps, you should ask yourself why you continue to evangelize? The fact that you continue to evangelize only shows that you took that scripture out of context. It was addressed to Christians, not to the pagans. St. Paul did not write that letter to the pagans, but to the Christians in Rome and he was addressing the issue of homosexuality.

I was right, you don't comprehend what you read, which is probably why you always end up in disagreements, enough said. I am bowing out, so maybe this thread will go back to the OP.

Quite honestly, all I can think of after reading this conversation is

[Guest]

Selene, you made the statement "If Christ can forgive the pagan Roman soldiers who nailed Him to the cross because of their ignorance, then we pray that God will also have mercy on those who don't believe because of their ignorance." The Word gives only one way to salvation. Even in the Old Testament only those who knew GOD and believed that HE would send a Substitute to pay the price for their sins were saved. When Christ came, He paid that price. When Christ asked the Father to "forgive them for they know not what they do," that did not mean that those Romans received salvation. We won't know until we get to Heaven. We must note that the Bible says GOD will judge all people righteously. It seems there will be a stricter judgment for those who have rejected the gospel of Jesus than those who have never heard. Paul tells us that those who have never heard of the law are not imputed sin under the law. Paul also tells us that those who follow the law (e.g., practicing Jews) will be judged by the law. The people who have never heard of the law are judged by the law of GOD which He has placed into their hearts. Romans 2:14-16 says "For when Gentiles who do not have the Law do instinctively the things of the Law, these, not having the Law, are a law to themselves, in that they show the work of the Law written in their hearts, their conscience bearing witness, and their thoughts alternately accusing or else defending them, on the day when, according to my gospel, GOD will judge the secrets of men through Christ Jesus." This seems to say that ignorance does not exist; because of the Law being written on the heart; giving knowledge of sin, the need for redemption from that sin and that GOD will provide that Redeemer. Even Muslims and Hindus have heard of Jesus, Who and what He claimed to be. It is up to them to listen to the Holy Spirit's calling, either accepting or rejecting it.

[Guest]

Matt. 24:14 "And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come." (KJV)

Mark 13:10 "And the gospel must first be preached to all nations." (KJV)

Just to be clear, The Word says that the Gospel is to be preached in a nations, not to all people. So, if the Gospel is preached anywhere in Saudi Arabia, or Iran, or any other nation (there are Christians in every nation), than GOD's requirement has been met.

[Steve_S]

Selene, you made the statement "If Christ can forgive the pagan Roman soldiers who nailed Him to the cross because of their ignorance, then we pray that God will also have mercy on those who don't believe because of their ignorance." The Word gives only one way to salvation. Even in the Old Testament only those who knew GOD and believed that HE would send a Substitute to pay the price for their sins were saved. When Christ came, He paid that price. When Christ asked the Father to "forgive them for they know not what they do," that did not mean that those Romans received salvation. We won't know until we get to Heaven. We must note that the Bible says GOD will judge all people righteously. It seems there will be a stricter judgment for those who have rejected the gospel of Jesus than those who have never heard. Paul tells us that those who have never heard of the law are not imputed sin under the law. Paul also tells us that those who follow the law (e.g., practicing Jews) will be judged by the law. The people who have never heard of the law are judged by the law of GOD which He has placed into their hearts. Romans 2:14-16 says "For when Gentiles who do not have the Law do instinctively the things of the Law, these, not having the Law, are a law to themselves, in that they show the work of the Law written in their hearts, their conscience bearing witness, and their thoughts alternately accusing or else defending them, on the day when, according to my gospel, GOD will judge the secrets of men through Christ Jesus." This seems to say that ignorance does not exist; because of the Law being written on the heart; giving knowledge of sin, the need for redemption from that sin and that GOD will provide that Redeemer. Even Muslims and Hindus have heard of Jesus, Who and what He claimed to be. It is up to them to listen to the Holy Spirit's calling, either accepting or rejecting it.

Just because I pray for mercy for all mankind does not mean that all mankind will have salvation. Salvation comes only from God and He alone decides who goes to Heaven and who goes to Hell. I don't know how many times I said this in my post. My prayers do not give salvation to anyone because salvation comes only from God.... Salvation comes only from God....I've said this so many times.

It is true that Christ forgave the pagan Roman soldiers for nailing Him to the cross in their ignorance. Those soldiers did not know who they nailed to the cross. At any rate, this already shows that God can have mercy on ignorant unbelievers. God can have mercy on whomever He wants. We pray for His mercy for all mankind because all of us are sinners. In the same way, I can forgive and pray for God's mercy on my enemy. Does this mean that God will give my enemy salvation? That is up to God. But as Christians, the right thing to do is to pray for all people because we are supposed to love everyone. Why pray only for Christians?

Romans 9:15 For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.

Not all Muslims or Hindus have heard of Jesus especially in the Muslim and communist world where it is illegal to preach Christianity. And Christ also said to preach to all creatures.....meaning all nations and all people.

Mark 16:15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.

Ignorance does not exist in regards to the Law. For example, every pagan and atheist should know that is immoral to murder, steal, and lie. There is no excuse for this. However, when it comes to the One True God, ignorance does exist.....and that is the reason why Christ commanded us to go out and preach the Gospels so all of mankind would know who He is. We are to preach about Christ because people are ignorant of Christ. We are not to preach about murder, stealing, or lying because those are the things already written in the hearts of men.

The way you word things is very vague and unspecific. I think that it's clear that we all agree that it's not wrong to pray for unbelievers, so I think it's fair that we drop that subject. This isn't about prayer for unbelievers. The crux of this matter is that the Bible tells us the only path to salvation. That's all that is really being said here by the likes of me, wingnut, etc.

[Steve_S]

Selene, you made the statement "If Christ can forgive the pagan Roman soldiers who nailed Him to the cross because of their ignorance, then we pray that God will also have mercy on those who don't believe because of their ignorance." The Word gives only one way to salvation. Even in the Old Testament only those who knew GOD and believed that HE would send a Substitute to pay the price for their sins were saved. When Christ came, He paid that price. When Christ asked the Father to "forgive them for they know not what they do," that did not mean that those Romans received salvation. We won't know until we get to Heaven. We must note that the Bible says GOD will judge all people righteously. It seems there will be a stricter judgment for those who have rejected the gospel of Jesus than those who have never heard. Paul tells us that those who have never heard of the law are not imputed sin under the law. Paul also tells us that those who follow the law (e.g., practicing Jews) will be judged by the law. The people who have never heard of the law are judged by the law of GOD which He has placed into their hearts. Romans 2:14-16 says "For when Gentiles who do not have the Law do instinctively the things of the Law, these, not having the Law, are a law to themselves, in that they show the work of the Law written in their hearts, their conscience bearing witness, and their thoughts alternately accusing or else defending them, on the day when, according to my gospel, GOD will judge the secrets of men through Christ Jesus." This seems to say that ignorance does not exist; because of the Law being written on the heart; giving knowledge of sin, the need for redemption from that sin and that GOD will provide that Redeemer. Even Muslims and Hindus have heard of Jesus, Who and what He claimed to be. It is up to them to listen to the Holy Spirit's calling, either accepting or rejecting it.

Just because I pray for mercy for all mankind does not mean that all mankind will have salvation. Salvation comes only from God and He alone decides who goes to Heaven and who goes to Hell. I don't know how many times I said this in my post. My prayers do not give salvation to anyone because salvation comes only from God.... Salvation comes only from God....I've said this so many times.

It is true that Christ forgave the pagan Roman soldiers for nailing Him to the cross in their ignorance. Those soldiers did not know who they nailed to the cross. At any rate, this already shows that God can have mercy on ignorant unbelievers. God can have mercy on whomever He wants. We pray for His mercy for all mankind because all of us are sinners. In the same way, I can forgive and pray for God's mercy on my enemy. Does this mean that God will give my enemy salvation? That is up to God. But as Christians, the right thing to do is to pray for all people because we are supposed to love everyone. Why pray only for Christians?

Romans 9:15 For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.

Not all Muslims or Hindus have heard of Jesus especially in the Muslim and communist world where it is illegal to preach Christianity. And Christ also said to preach to all creatures.....meaning all nations and all people.

Mark 16:15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.

Ignorance does not exist in regards to the Law. For example, every pagan and atheist should know that is immoral to murder, steal, and lie. There is no excuse for this. However, when it comes to the One True God, ignorance does exist.....and that is the reason why Christ commanded us to go out and preach the Gospels so all of mankind would know who He is. We are to preach about Christ because people are ignorant of Christ. We are not to preach about murder, stealing, or lying because those are the things already written in the hearts of men.

The way you word things is very vague and unspecific. I think that it's clear that we all agree that it's not wrong to pray for unbelievers, so I think it's fair that we drop that subject. This isn't about prayer for unbelievers. The crux of this matter is that the Bible tells us the only path to salvation. That's all that is really being said here by the likes of me, wingnut, etc.

I think it's the way you interpret what I say. I've always said that "salvation comes from God or from Christ." I never said that it comes from Buddhism, Hinduism, Atheism, or any of those things. Perhaps, if you point out to the very sentence that confuses you, I could clarify it better.

It's not a specific sentence. It's the overall tone. The sacrifice of Jesus is what saves, nothing else, we know this. I think a better way that I would put it, personally, is to pray that nonbelievers find salvation through Jesus, as that is the only thing that can save any of us.

[Steve_S]

Selene, you made the statement "If Christ can forgive the pagan Roman soldiers who nailed Him to the cross because of their ignorance, then we pray that God will also have mercy on those who don't believe because of their ignorance." The Word gives only one way to salvation. Even in the Old Testament only those who knew GOD and believed that HE would send a Substitute to pay the price for their sins were saved. When Christ came, He paid that price. When Christ asked the Father to "forgive them for they know not what they do," that did not mean that those Romans received salvation. We won't know until we get to Heaven. We must note that the Bible says GOD will judge all people righteously. It seems there will be a stricter judgment for those who have rejected the gospel of Jesus than those who have never heard. Paul tells us that those who have never heard of the law are not imputed sin under the law. Paul also tells us that those who follow the law (e.g., practicing Jews) will be judged by the law. The people who have never heard of the law are judged by the law of GOD which He has placed into their hearts. Romans 2:14-16 says "For when Gentiles who do not have the Law do instinctively the things of the Law, these, not having the Law, are a law to themselves, in that they show the work of the Law written in their hearts, their conscience bearing witness, and their thoughts alternately accusing or else defending them, on the day when, according to my gospel, GOD will judge the secrets of men through Christ Jesus." This seems to say that ignorance does not exist; because of the Law being written on the heart; giving knowledge of sin, the need for redemption from that sin and that GOD will provide that Redeemer. Even Muslims and Hindus have heard of Jesus, Who and what He claimed to be. It is up to them to listen to the Holy Spirit's calling, either accepting or rejecting it.

Just because I pray for mercy for all mankind does not mean that all mankind will have salvation. Salvation comes only from God and He alone decides who goes to Heaven and who goes to Hell. I don't know how many times I said this in my post. My prayers do not give salvation to anyone because salvation comes only from God.... Salvation comes only from God....I've said this so many times.

It is true that Christ forgave the pagan Roman soldiers for nailing Him to the cross in their ignorance. Those soldiers did not know who they nailed to the cross. At any rate, this already shows that God can have mercy on ignorant unbelievers. God can have mercy on whomever He wants. We pray for His mercy for all mankind because all of us are sinners. In the same way, I can forgive and pray for God's mercy on my enemy. Does this mean that God will give my enemy salvation? That is up to God. But as Christians, the right thing to do is to pray for all people because we are supposed to love everyone. Why pray only for Christians?

Romans 9:15 For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.

Not all Muslims or Hindus have heard of Jesus especially in the Muslim and communist world where it is illegal to preach Christianity. And Christ also said to preach to all creatures.....meaning all nations and all people.

Mark 16:15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.

Ignorance does not exist in regards to the Law. For example, every pagan and atheist should know that is immoral to murder, steal, and lie. There is no excuse for this. However, when it comes to the One True God, ignorance does exist.....and that is the reason why Christ commanded us to go out and preach the Gospels so all of mankind would know who He is. We are to preach about Christ because people are ignorant of Christ. We are not to preach about murder, stealing, or lying because those are the things already written in the hearts of men.

The way you word things is very vague and unspecific. I think that it's clear that we all agree that it's not wrong to pray for unbelievers, so I think it's fair that we drop that subject. This isn't about prayer for unbelievers. The crux of this matter is that the Bible tells us the only path to salvation. That's all that is really being said here by the likes of me, wingnut, etc.

I think it's the way you interpret what I say. I've always said that "salvation comes from God or from Christ." I never said that it comes from Buddhism, Hinduism, Atheism, or any of those things. Perhaps, if you point out to the very sentence that confuses you, I could clarify it better.

It's not a specific sentence. It's the overall tone. The sacrifice of Jesus is what saves, nothing else, we know this. I think a better way that I would put it, personally, is to pray that nonbelievers find salvation through Jesus, as that is the only thing that can save any of us.

It does not matter to me if you decide to pray for nonbelievers to convert to Christianity. I think that's a good prayer. Praying for God's mercy rather than His judgement is also good. As a Christian, I am no better than the non-believers because I'm also a sinner. The non-believers are sinners because they worship other gods. I am also a sinner because I have also committed sins, which is why I confess my sins to God almost everyday. So, I pray for all of mankind because all of mankind are sinners.

When you say mercy, what do you mean? Do you mean that you pray that He will allow nonbelievers whom haven't accepted Jesus into eternal life?