On going debate, English translations of the Bible

[linehaul]

Go to any Christian forum and you'll find a debate about; which english version of the scripture is the best, (closest to God's truth) version to study. Which version is the pure version. Which version is going to last the longest to preserve God's truth.

Many believe the the King James Version is the only version of the written word worth studying, others claim that many or all english versions have the truth of God's word between the covers. And others just write their own version to suit their need of religion.

Ok now the facts about any and all writen (english & else) translations. No where in the Scripture is the written word promised. Think about this folks, again no where within the scriptures is a written version of God's word promised to us. There is a very good reason for this. Man the translator is flawed. God the Father promised us Jesus, Jesus God the son promised the Holy Spirit. All english versions of the Scriptures have flaws, even the King James Version.

So how do christians get the truth that God has to offer us. How do we recieve God's word, God's truth and not that of man. Look to the example Jesus gives us. Jesus goes to John the Baptist, is baptised and recieves the Holy Spirit before moving on to his public ministry. From that time to the 1400's the time of the printing press intented only Hebrew and Greek text was availible in written form. Not many had or could read these text.

The Apostiles had no written word to go on, only the Holy Spirit. The English translations are a good second source of learning, a great place to start, but still to this day the best source of study is with the Holy Spirit. Jesus promised: the Holy Spirit would lead us into all truths, not the english translation of other text, translated by flawed man.

Any Christian that dose'nt study with the Holy Spirit at their side will not come to know the truth with any version of the Bible. I'm sure this will rattle off into many directions. Some will agree, some will disagree, some will just be more confused. It's ok, we are human and humans are flawed, all of us (finger pointing back at myself). But the Holy Spirit is Pure, True, and the third person of the Godhead "the Holy Spirir of God".

God bless all

Linehaul

[wingnut-]

True linehaul, this is an often brought up topic on christian forums, and there are many threads here which cover it exhaustively, I am sure this one will end up no differently than the others lol. God bless.

[linehaul]

Selene,, Very good reply,, and yes the Apostles did have the Old testiment, but their main theme of teaching is what we now know as the New Testiment, Paul, Peter and I beleve John all make referance to the Old Testiment, yet it was the New Testiment that was being established by then. There main study guide was not a writen word, but the direct teachings from the Lord and the Holy Spirit.

I very much like your example of how a simple sentence can be so easily interpertated many ways. I may have to steal this example and use it for others. This example really shows the very flaw of man, and the interpretation of the scriptures from the original text to the english language. Thank you.

The problem with Preachers, Teachers and Pastors today is simply flawed interpretation, comlicated with the injection of their take, or to say their interpretation of the scripture. The Holy Spirit will always give the exact same teaching and interpretation as that of Jesus. For the only promise given us on recieving the truth contained within the scriptures is the Holy Spirit.

Now I'm not going to start telling folk to stop reading the Bible, whatever verison they chose to use. If you study with the Holy Spirit at your side, you will gain the truth, regardless of which version of the Bible you study from (KJV, NKJV, NIV, NASB, etc)

God bless

Linehaul

[linehaul]

Wingnut,, oh so true,, lol.. Thanks

God bless

Linehaul

[Steve_S]

Go to any Christian forum and you'll find a debate about; which english version of the scripture is the best, (closest to God's truth) version to study. Which version is the pure version. Which version is going to last the longest to preserve God's truth.

Many believe the the King James Version is the only version of the written word worth studying, others claim that many or all english versions have the truth of God's word between the covers. And others just write their own version to suit their need of religion.

Ok now the facts about any and all writen (english & else) translations. No where in the Scripture is the written word promised. Think about this folks, again no where within the scriptures is a written version of God's word promised to us. There is a very good reason for this. Man the translator is flawed. God the Father promised us Jesus, Jesus God the son promised the Holy Spirit. All english versions of the Scriptures have flaws, even the King James Version.

So how do christians get the truth that God has to offer us. How do we recieve God's word, God's truth and not that of man. Look to the example Jesus gives us. Jesus goes to John the Baptist, is baptised and recieves the Holy Spirit before moving on to his public ministry. From that time to the 1400's the time of the printing press intented only Hebrew and Greek text was availible in written form. Not many had or could read these text.

The Apostiles had no written word to go on, only the Holy Spirit. The English translations are a good second source of learning, a great place to start, but still to this day the best source of study is with the Holy Spirit. Jesus promised: the Holy Spirit would lead us into all truths, not the english translation of other text, translated by flawed man.

Any Christian that dose'nt study with the Holy Spirit at their side will not come to know the truth with any version of the Bible. I'm sure this will rattle off into many directions. Some will agree, some will disagree, some will just be more confused. It's ok, we are human and humans are flawed, all of us (finger pointing back at myself). But the Holy Spirit is Pure, True, and the third person of the Godhead "the Holy Spirir of God".

God bless all

Linehaul

So my question to you is why we need a Bible at all? Has the Holy Spirit dictated to you every single one of God's truths, the history of the church, the history of the Jews, and the creation of the world? How do you know that the story about Jesus being baptized is true, you got it from a translation of the Bible? What made you believe any of it before you were saved, as you didn't have the Holy Spirit guiding you then?

I CERTAINLY think that we have a guarantee of a preserved written word, for just this purpose.

Psa 12:6 The words of the LORD are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times.

Psa 12:7 Thou shalt keep them, O LORD, thou shalt preserve them from this generation for ever.

My main question to you, though, is why would a God that had enough power to perform these actions and to say and dictate these words in the first place be too weak to preserve them in different translations?

[linehaul]

Steve_S,

So my question to you is why we need a Bible at all? Has the Holy Spirit dictated to you every single one of God's truths, the history of the church, the history of the Jews, and the creation of the world? How do you know that the story about Jesus being baptized is true, you got it from a translation of the Bible? What made you believe any of it before you were saved, as you didn't have the Holy Spirit guiding you then?

I CERTAINLY think that we have a guarantee of a preserved written word, for just this purpose.

Psa 12:6 The words of the LORD are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times.

Psa 12:7 Thou shalt keep them, O LORD, thou shalt preserve them from this generation for ever.

My main question to you, though, is why would a God that had enough power to perform these actions and to say and dictate these words in the first place be too weak to preserve them in different translations?

ok, I'll break it down for you:

/ So my question to you is why we need a Bible at all? / It is a great study guide for use, but second to the Holy Spirit.

/ Has the Holy Spirit dictated to you every single one of God's truths, / No,, still learning

/ the history of the church, / has confirmed the truth of what I do know, again still learning

/ the history of the Jews, / has confirmed the truth of what I do know, again still learning

/ and the creation of the world? / has confirmed the truth of what I do know, again still learning

/ My main question to you, though, is why would a God that had enough power to perform these actions and to say and dictate these words in the first place be too weak to preserve them in different translations /

God is anything but weak, God gave us the way to preserve His word. I'm not saying that the written word is of no use.. It holds great value to all that pick up the Bible and read. Buy reading the word you hear the word. But to get God's take, God's truth from within the scriptures you need more than the translated written word,, You need the assist of God himself.

/ What made you believe any of it before you were saved, as you didn't have the Holy Spirit guiding you then? /

I didn't believe a single word of scripture before I was saved and had never so much as thought about reading the Bible before I was saved. I believe God (Father, Son and Spirit) was just a bunch of hogwash and fairy tales. I would blow off Christians as fakes and fairy tale spinneres before I was saved. If a Christian tryed to share with me before I came to know Jesus, they were in for a brutal beating (you would not believe the pain that can be produced for two small pieces of bamboo).. I had no time for such non sence in my days of service to satins camp. I had attended 0 days of church service before I came to know Jesus.

One day while helping a friend clear out his mom's storage bin after her death, I was handed his mom's Bible to pack in a box, and something inside me hurt like I'd never hurt before in my life. I didn't read one passage out of this book, just placed into the box and passed off the pain as a prior injury acting up. In reality this was the first day of Jesus working within me. Within a short time my Pick up Truck broke down in front of a small church, I went in to ask to use the phone and came out a changed man. I finally bought a Bible about a year later, to assist in my education with and by the Holy Spirit.

Steve _S, Look at it this way, if you read a book on my life, could you learn more from the book, or more from talking directly to me?? Same goes for God, We can all learn alot from the translated word, but to learn it the best you need God at your side as you study His word.

Hope is helps clear any confussion I may have set in motion. Thanks for the reply

God bless

Linehaul

[Steve_S]

Steve_S,

So my question to you is why we need a Bible at all? Has the Holy Spirit dictated to you every single one of God's truths, the history of the church, the history of the Jews, and the creation of the world? How do you know that the story about Jesus being baptized is true, you got it from a translation of the Bible? What made you believe any of it before you were saved, as you didn't have the Holy Spirit guiding you then?

I CERTAINLY think that we have a guarantee of a preserved written word, for just this purpose.

Psa 12:6 The words of the LORD are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times.

Psa 12:7 Thou shalt keep them, O LORD, thou shalt preserve them from this generation for ever.

My main question to you, though, is why would a God that had enough power to perform these actions and to say and dictate these words in the first place be too weak to preserve them in different translations?

ok, I'll break it down for you:

/ So my question to you is why we need a Bible at all? / It is a great study guide for use, but second to the Holy Spirit.

/ Has the Holy Spirit dictated to you every single one of God's truths, / No,, still learning

/ the history of the church, / has confirmed the truth of what I do know, again still learning

/ the history of the Jews, / has confirmed the truth of what I do know, again still learning

/ and the creation of the world? / has confirmed the truth of what I do know, again still learning

/ My main question to you, though, is why would a God that had enough power to perform these actions and to say and dictate these words in the first place be too weak to preserve them in different translations /

God is anything but weak, God gave us the way to preserve His word. I'm not saying that the written word is of no use.. It holds great value to all that pick up the Bible and read. Buy reading the word you hear the word. But to get God's take, God's truth from within the scriptures you need more than the translated written word,, You need the assist of God himself.

/ What made you believe any of it before you were saved, as you didn't have the Holy Spirit guiding you then? /

I didn't believe a single word of scripture before I was saved and had never so much as thought about reading the Bible before I was saved. I believe God (Father, Son and Spirit) was just a bunch of hogwash and fairy tales. I would blow off Christians as fakes and fairy tale spinneres before I was saved. If a Christian tryed to share with me before I came to know Jesus, they were in for a brutal beating (you would not believe the pain that can be produced for two small pieces of bamboo).. I had no time for such non sence in my days of service to satins camp. I had attended 0 days of church service before I came to know Jesus.

One day while helping a friend clear out his mom's storage bin after her death, I was handed his mom's Bible to pack in a box, and something inside me hurt like I'd never hurt before in my life. I didn't read one passage out of this book, just placed into the box and passed off the pain as a prior injury acting up. In reality this was the first day of Jesus working within me. Within a short time my Pick up Truck broke down in front of a small church, I went in to ask to use the phone and came out a changed man. I finally bought a Bible about a year later, to assist in my education with and by the Holy Spirit.

Steve _S, Look at it this way, if you read a book on my life, could you learn more from the book, or more from talking directly to me?? Same goes for God, We can all learn alot from the translated word, but to learn it the best you need God at your side as you study His word.

Hope is helps clear any confussion I may have set in motion. Thanks for the reply

God bless

Linehaul

I don't disagree with you in principle and I certainly think that the Holy Spirit guides us in interpretation, but I think that it's for our understanding, not because of the inadequacy of the texts that have been preserved. I think our main disagreement is whether or not there is an accurate version or versions that exist. I would think that anything that God preserved would be wholly adequate and incredibly accurate.

Are there any examples you can give of Bibles you've read being errant in areas that you feel the Spirit has guided you to the truth on, specific verses, etc.?

[georgedrw81]

We try to translate by keeping the same format but this is not allways possible. On the example given the sentence would interpreted correctly, because being a sentence in a book you would have set the scene.

Blessings

[TomB_2012]

I own a KJV, NKJV, NIV, NLT and a Portuguese translation of the NT. I also use the ESVUK, RSV, NASB, ASV and many others when I have the opportunity. I mainly use the KJV because it is the version that I got attached to more than my first bible, which is an NIV. Many English translations are accurate, you just got to find out which versions you think are accurate.

[linehaul]

I don't disagree with you in principle and I certainly think that the Holy Spirit guides us in interpretation, but I think that it's for our understanding, not because of the inadequacy of the texts that have been preserved. I think our main disagreement is whether or not there is an accurate version or versions that exist. I would think that anything that God preserved would be wholly adequate and incredibly accurate.

Are there any examples you can give of Bibles you've read being errant in areas that you feel the Spirit has guided you to the truth on, specific verses, etc.?

Ok lets look at God, God is always perfect in what ever He does. God has the perfect way to preserve His word, The Holy Spirit. Where any and all translated Bibles come to gain the flaws has nothing to do with God, and everything to do with man. To fully grasp this you are going to have the study the Hebrew and Greek language. Both of these languages have a similarity to them, they are both languages of picture and persist punctuation.

A good example of err by man is in Romans 3:21-22

As translated in the KJV (my preferred study Bible):

Romans 3:21-22

21. But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;

22. Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:

Should read:

Romans 3:21-22

21. But now a righteousness of God without the law is manifested;

22. Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that faith: for there is no difference:

This a just one of about 35 know miss translated scripture. What I sharing here is nothing new. Just not talked about outside the Seminary and religious studies in our Universities.

Many of the New English Translations like the NIV, NLT, and NASB, change the very language of God's word.. an example of this would be Hebrews 12:7-8.

As translated in the KJV

Hebrews 12:7-8

7. If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?

8. But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons.

In many other translations the wording is changed and/or softened

Verse 7 the word {father} is translated as parent. In context the word father is correct as it refers the disciplinarian of the family

Verse 8 the word {bastards} is translated as illegitimate. In context here bastards is a shock or wake up word. But many in Christianity want to believe that

God would not use a word or fraise the would offend anyone.. This just isn't true. God's word purposely offends folk to get their attention on areas in their life that needs work.

So did God preserve His word, Yes, just not in the written word.

God bless

Linehaul