What makes Bible study pointless?

[Steve_S]

Again, I don't disagree in principle here. I believe there would be a much better way of putting it that wouldn't potentially discourage Bible study, though.

How is it discouraging Bible study?

I didn't say it was, I said it has the potential too, especially for new Christians and nonbelievers that may be seeking. They certainly could be confused about the term "Bible experience." I guess my main issue is that I don't see a reason to associate the word "pointless" with Bible study, ever.

Let's, just hypothetically, say that someone studies their Bible for 3 or 4 hours every day. They're seeking, perhaps they don't have faith in Jesus yet. Perhaps they want to learn as much as they possibly can about what was taught. Perhaps they have doubts. Perhaps they are feeling alone and just want some comfort in something they grew up with but never accepted. Would you be willing to tell them to go ahead and stop, it's pointless, their study is not bearing fruits because they haven't had faith in Jesus yet? I'm not saying that the intent of this phrase is something like that, just that it could be taken like that. Pointless is a strong word to associate with scriptural study under any circumstances and something about it just doesn't sit well with me, I guess. Maybe I'm taking it the wrong way or overthinking it, I could be, but something about it just bothers me in general.

If the Bible study is offering them hope and comfort, if it is changing their life, if they are coming to know God better - then they are having a Bible experience.

What if they aren't though? What if they're just trying to refute it? What if they're just opening the book to mock it? Would you still tell them to put the Word of God down? I wouldn't, because they're still reading the truth, even if their intent is to mock, judge, or refute.

[nebula]

"Bible study without Bible experience is pointless."

~Bill Johnson

Your thoughts?

I don't believe Bible study to be pointless. How can one learn God's word without studying the Bible? The problem is, there are some Churches out there that have a doctrine that may not truly follow the true message in the Bible and their Bible study groups can lead new Christians on the wrong path.

He didn't say Bible study was pointless!

Context, oldzimm!

What does Scripture say about a man who hears the word but does not "do" the word?

[nebula]

What if they aren't though? What if they're just trying to refute it? What if they're just opening the book to mock it? Would you still tell them to put the Word of God down? I wouldn't, because they're still reading the truth, even if their intent is to mock, judge, or refute.

Steve, I don't believe the quote was meant for these people.

Do you have a grievence with the Bible becoming something more than words and intellectual input?

[Steve_S]

What if they aren't though? What if they're just trying to refute it? What if they're just opening the book to mock it? Would you still tell them to put the Word of God down? I wouldn't, because they're still reading the truth, even if their intent is to mock, judge, or refute.

Steve, I don't believe the quote was meant for these people.

Do you have a grievence with the Bible becoming something more than words and intellectual input?

Absolutely not, I just disagree with the way this message is being delivered, not the message itself. I don't like "Bible study" being associated with "pointless" in this manner with such wide room for interpretation of the actual statement. In the post to zimm you mentioned context, there's not much context here to go off of, you have to make inferences. This isn't scripture so there's no guarantee that there's going to be guided discernment with what it means.

The Bible is CLEARLY more than words and intellectual input.

Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

Joh 1:2 The same was in the beginning with God.

Joh 1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

But a lot of people are going to just see "Bible study" and "pointless" together without processing the Bible experience portion, when we know Bible study is incredibly, incredibly important. If you want the "Bible experience" of which is mentioned in the OP then you need to have Bible study:

2Ti 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

2Ti 3:17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

If I have a grievance with anything it's his phraseology. I just feel that the tone of this man's statement belittles study a little bit, I'm sorry, that's how it strikes me. It's not a knock on you or anyone else here, it's just how I personally feel about it.

[Zemke]

"And this I pray, that your love may abound still more and more in real knowledge and all discernment." Phil. 1:9

The word here for knowledge is epignosis, expressing participation, an experientual knowledge. But he goes on to say "and all discernment."

It could be said the other way around, "experience without knowledge will lead to foolishness and confusion." No discernment. "A wicked generation seeks after a sign." My people parish for a lack of knowledge.

Much of the church today seeks after experience and signs, emotionalism. Not good because it is without knowledge most of the time.

On the other hand a head of knowledge alone just gets puffed up.

Paul had a theological background. Most likely the best the Jews had to offer, the school of Hellel, his rabbi was Gamaliel but he went through the wilderness, stoning, fleeing persecution and then following Barnabas to Antioch and serving, learning, discipling and being discipled until the Holy Spirit spoke to the church and called out Barnabas and Paul. Some 8 to 9 years after his conversion.

A bible teacher I like says it this way, "We need to learn about the bible, a biblical education is good, real good, but it's in the wilderness where we will learn what the bible is about."

[oldzimm]

"Bible study without Bible experience is pointless."

~Bill Johnson

Your thoughts?

I don't believe Bible study to be pointless. How can one learn God's word without studying the Bible? The problem is, there are some Churches out there that have a doctrine that may not truly follow the true message in the Bible and their Bible study groups can lead new Christians on the wrong path.

He didn't say Bible study was pointless!

Context, oldzimm!

What does Scripture say about a man who hears the word but does not "do" the word?

Oops, my bad, I guess the pain killer med's haven't warned off yesterday. Hey pain killer med's sounds like a good excuse to me.

[nebula]

What if they aren't though? What if they're just trying to refute it? What if they're just opening the book to mock it? Would you still tell them to put the Word of God down? I wouldn't, because they're still reading the truth, even if their intent is to mock, judge, or refute.

Steve, I don't believe the quote was meant for these people.

Do you have a grievence with the Bible becoming something more than words and intellectual input?

Absolutely not, I just disagree with the way this message is being delivered, not the message itself. I don't like "Bible study" being associated with "pointless" in this manner with such wide room for interpretation of the actual statement. In the post to zimm you mentioned context, there's not much context here to go off of, you have to make inferences. This isn't scripture so there's no guarantee that there's going to be guided discernment with what it means.

If I said, "A car is pointless without tires," would you associate my words as saying cars are pointless?

Or would you associate what I was saying to mean that without tires a car cannot function as it was meant to?

The Bible is CLEARLY more than words and intellectual input.

Agree. But how many people regard it that way?

[nebula]

"And this I pray, that your love may abound still more and more in real knowledge and all discernment." Phil. 1:9

The word here for knowledge is epignosis, expressing participation, an experientual knowledge. But he goes on to say "and all discernment."

It could be said the other way around, "experience without knowledge will lead to foolishness and confusion." No discernment. "A wicked generation seeks after a sign." My people parish for a lack of knowledge.

Much of the church today seeks after experience and signs, emotionalism. Not good because it is without knowledge most of the time.

On the other hand a head of knowledge alone just gets puffed up.

Paul had a theological background. Most likely the best the Jews had to offer, the school of Hellel, his rabbi was Gamaliel but he went through the wilderness, stoning, fleeing persecution and then following Barnabas to Antioch and serving, learning, discipling and being discipled until the Holy Spirit spoke to the church and called out Barnabas and Paul. Some 8 to 9 years after his conversion.

A bible teacher I like says it this way, "We need to learn about the bible, a biblical education is good, real good, but it's in the wilderness where we will learn what the bible is about."

Well spoken!

[nebula]

Oops, my bad, I guess the pain killer med's haven't warned off yesterday. Hey pain killer med's sounds like a good excuse to me.

You're forgiven!!

[nChrist]

When I think about the word "Bible", I think about many beautiful things, including the work of the Gideons. The Gideons place Bibles in hotel rooms, give them to members of the armed services, and give them out many other places. There are almost countless stories about what God did with the Gideon Bibles, so I think this is a wonderful ministry. My first Bible that was all mine was given to me by the Gideons at school. It was a New Testament, and I remember how proud I was that I had my own Bible. It is my firm belief that there is great power in God's Word and God uses it however He wishes. I was fortunate to be born into a family that raised children in the ways of the Lord, so I learned how to read with the Holy Bible. I give thanks every day for Godly parents who taught me, and I often consider the great advantage that I had. We were poor by the world's standards, but we were rich in the things of God.

I think often of this beautiful portion of Scripture:

Isaiah 55:6-13 NASB Seek the LORD while He may be found; Call upon Him while He is near. 7 Let the wicked forsake his way And the unrighteous man his thoughts; And let him return to the LORD, And He will have compassion on him, And to our God, For He will abundantly pardon. 8 "For My thoughts are not your thoughts, Nor are your ways My ways," declares the LORD. 9 "For as the heavens are higher than the earth, So are My ways higher than your ways And My thoughts than your thoughts. 10 "For as the rain and the snow come down from heaven, And do not return there without watering the earth And making it bear and sprout, And furnishing seed to the sower and bread to the eater; 11 So will My word be which goes forth from My mouth; It will not return to Me empty, Without accomplishing what I desire, And without succeeding in the matter for which I sent it. 12 "For you will go out with joy And be led forth with peace; The mountains and the hills will break forth into shouts of joy before you, And all the trees of the field will clap their hands. 13 "Instead of the thorn bush the cypress will come up, And instead of the nettle the myrtle will come up, And it will be a memorial to the LORD, For an everlasting sign which will not be cut off."

Some may open God's Word for the purpose of finding out how to mock it, but they might also get a message from God that will change their lives forever.