New ager's take on Rapture, very interesting!

[Matthitjah]

As for the church being "missional," truly evangelical, bible-believing and teaching churches are missional, and always have been. That has not changed. it is the Liberal churches that are no longer missional. You can't lump all churches together and have an accurate statement. And during the end times, the mission of spreading the gospel returns to Israel.

Don't agree with this. There are Churches out there right now that are full of Saved folks who are not Missional and not Liberal. They're just comfortable.

Meanwhile, I'm not sure why it would be just Israel preaching the Gospel when we are Grafted in and aren't going anywhere.

[bornagain2011]

I leave for 5 minutes and this is what happens?! Do I have to seperate you two?!!

LOL! Just kidding! Can you tell I am a mom?

I believe that if we are not raptured we will be kept from God's judgement, but not the tribulation. Rapture or no rapture, it could go either way....but we MUST have our lamps ready! We must stay awake and alert, keep making deciples and keep being the light of the world. Witness any chance you get, squeeze it into a conversation with someone. Don't be shy or apologetic with the message, if someone gets offended it is because their sin nature doesn't want to hear the Truth, we can't beat it over their heads, but we do need to be out there lovingly spreading the Word. People will know God's love by the love we show to everyone, even our enemies. Passing out tracts is a great way to spread the gospel when you are shy, I pass out Chick Tracts, they are cheap and formated like a comic strip, people like them and I can leave them around walmart and stuff....

Where did that tangent come from? That was a bit off topic, sorry! I just get really scared for the unsaved.

God bless!

Natalie

[John Robinson]

Matt's anger kind of makes my point of some of the things that were said to me about my novel. I had to gently tell some folks, "caramba, chill, this isn't scripture, it's just a good old 'what if?' tale." Many good Christians don't believe in the rapture, and many do, but I'll have to say I don't see the vitriol coming from the "pro" camp nearly as heavily from the "con." Practically none, truth be told.

My wife and I have been saved for nearly forty years now, and we both came to the "pro" position simply from reading the Word aloud to each other every night for years, starting right after we got saved (and we both came to that conclusion years before we ever heard of Darby or MacDonald). And yes, the churches we've attended these past four decades teach the rapture, and are very missional.

At any rate, I don't think our belief in a rapture makes us stupid or second-class; hope not, anyway.

[bornagain2011]

I would personally like to see some more scripture supporting rapture, I have seen a few things like the church will be kept from the hour of trial, but I just assumed that meant God will shield us from HIS wrath. I don't know.

Then there is also scripture that says the remaining believers will be caught up with the Lord after the tribulation.

That is why I say it could go either way, I don't really care, He is coming back and that is what is important.

get Lamps ready...just sayin!

[Matthitjah]

Don't agree with this. There are Churches out there right now that are full of Saved folks who are not Missional and not Liberal. They're just comfortable.

Meanwhile, I'm not sure why it would be just Israel preaching the Gospel when we are Grafted in and aren't going anywhere.

In your personal opinion.

Dave, you know how I feel about you, so for me to say I am seeing an attitude from you on this subject should tell you something. I do not say it lightly, and I would not say it if I did not believe it to be true. I have seen Rapture discussions begin down this road before. That is why I don't usually get involved in them anymore. And it always ends in someone who does not think a Rapture will happen calling people who do deluded, stupid and weak.

In my experience, I rarely see those that believe in a pre-tribulation Rapture badgering and belittling those who do not. It always seems to be no Rapture believers that are intent on stamping out the other side at all costs. And I have never understood why when belief either way is going to have absolutely no effect on the outcome, one way or the other. What God has planned will occur, in spite of one sides erroneous beliefs. You are free to your belief, and I would not try and "talk" you out of it.

If a church is not pursuing spreading the gospel, it is not fulfilling it's calling. But to say that "the Western Church is not missional" is a blanket statement and it is an inaccurate one. You don't get people to think outside their comfort zone by giving statements that are false.

Brother, I Love you too!

You're reading something into my statements that aren't there at all.

Meanwhile, what difference does it make what New Agers think if it's not Biblical?

That is my overall point. Think about it.

YBIC,

Dave

[bornagain2011]

Cobalt,

Very good point! I just worry that if someone puts all their eggs in one basket and the rapture DOESN"T happen then they might not be prepared for the harship to come. But like I said either way I don't care. I would like to see more scripture in favor of rapture.

[JTC]

Way back in the 70's (I think it was the 70's based on the girl's hairstyles and the cars in the film) there was a movie made called "A Thief in the Night". There were also 1 or 2 sequels. These weren't high budget Hollywood films. I rented them in a Christian bookstore. I guess they were pre trib rapture movies. They're actually pretty scary if you aren't born again and if you haven't been being diligent to make sure your calling is sure. In the movies the world goes into the trib right after the rapture. What they show that's scary is that all the people who belong to churches, but weren't sincere in their confession of Christ, are not only left behind, but they know why everyone disappeared. So the movie shows the news media reporting that Christians are saying Jesus returned to rapture his church, but then the news media mocks the idea. The sequels then go on to depict certain trib events, but not nearly all of them. The last sequel ends with those who won't take the mark of the beast being beheaded.

I wasn't a Christian all that long when I saw these movies so I don't know how inaccurate they were. I'm sure they had some mistakes in them. But for the most part I believed what they showed. I guess that makes me a pre trib rapture believer. But since then I've also heard the other side of the argument.

I agree we ought not to be arguing about it, because it isn't something that effects salvation. What is important is if you think you're saved, you need to make sure your calling is sure. We need to do what the apostles did and examine ourselves to make sure we aren't being a phoney. I find the idea of thinking you can lie to God to be almost laughable. We can't lie to God so we best not lie to ourselves neither.

And I agree with Cobalt's statement about it being very curious when atheists come here and make many posts trying to convince us God isn't real. I think the reason they do that is because they are hoping we will convince them God is real. So I don't think we should ever push them away unless they become excessively obnoxious and arrogant. What we need to convince them of is that only God can prove to them He's real, not us. But they have to soften their hearts and ask Him to prove Himself to them, and then He will. I know this because I was once atheistic, and I asked God to prove to me He is real. The fact that he did so is proven by me being here.

[bornagain2011]

Awesome post John!

I will have to check out that movie! Have you seen the one with Kirk Cameron called Left Behind? They are really good, except for the fact that after the 3rd movie the series stops and there aren't any more so you don't get to see what happens! Bummer!

[Fez]

Why is there this preoccupation with the rapture, especially in certain countries?

I attend a bible based, spirit driven, evangelical, family loving church, whose every move is tested by the leadership against scripture and prayer.

And yet not once, never, have I heard one lesson or preach about the rapture, tribulation, end times, etc.

Live for the day, live for Jesus every day. He tells us to.

All we have to do, is live for Him now, today. We know He is coming, we know there will be tribulation, but there is nothing we can do to change His coming. Nothing. ( I suppose one could argue that we can hasten it).

Or am I wrong?