If the Holy Spirit is leading, why do we have so many...

[OneLight]

L10, the reason is us, as I said. People have a tendency to learn a little of something and all of a sudden, they are experts. They take an idea and build their understanding around it. This is not just the pride of man, but their arrogance as well. As for the gifts, the Holy Spirit gives them as He wills, not to just the "awesome", whom ever they are.

The only way to know if what you are hearing is of God or not is to get as close to Him as you possibly can in your faith/walk, and you will know the difference. IT is just like when you friend calls from a crowd, you know who is calling because you recognize their voice. Jesus said it Himself in John 10:27 "My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me."

[nebula]

People tend to believe what they were taught first. Some will explore and dig deeper to see if it is true or not, but most tend to stick with what they first heard. And even when you are exploring, it is hard to reject what was first taught (personal exprience).

I think that's what OneLight meant by "locking away"?

Sure, we follow the Holy Spirit, but we too often misinterpret our preconceived notions as His leading.

[OneLight]

People tend to believe what they were taught first. Some will explore and dig deeper to see if it is true or not, but most tend to stick with what they first heard. And even when you are exploring, it is hard to reject what was first taught (personal exprience).

I think that's what OneLight meant by "locking away"?

Sure, we follow the Holy Spirit, but we too often misinterpret our preconceived notions as His leading.

Yes, that is what I meant by "locking away" Neb. When we approach His words to us in true humility, we find it easier to admit we are wrong.

[His_disciple3]

To the OP, I would question your knowledge on Charles Stanley being a 5 point calvinist?

The Israelites were following The Cloud and fire of God, but yet He lead them around the same mountain for forty years, because of their pride and disobedience. You could have asked the Israelites why they were going around the same mountain, again and again. they would would have said what are you talking about, we are following God! Much like calvinist today. Man's doctrine has ripped apart the Body of Christ. when there was a split in doctrines amongst the disciples such as circumcision, they gathered a counsel meeting and got on the same page, as we can only assume that some at this counsel had to swallow alittle pride that day. for the sake of unity. does it matter if one was circumcised or not? the conclusion was no. does it matter when God chose us, the fact that He chose us, should be our focus. but yet calvinist will make predestated election(their doctrine), a heaven or hell, life or death issue! did it matter that the disciples had powers over demons, well Jesus said not to rejoice about that but rather rejoice for their name was written in Heaven, however according to Calvinist we should split over when our name was written not where it was written, and they will go as far to say that our name is not written if we don't see it their prideful way. election and freewill are both scriptural, so let's keep going around this mountain until Jesus comes, does it matter to a babe in Christ when their name was written, but yet calvinist will say that knowledge of their doctrine is what saves Or only the ones that believe the 5 points are saved, so does this make vain of what Christ did on the Cross, for we may believe that He died for us, but only til we believe all 5 points of man's doctrine (John Calvin) will we truly be saved? according to today's calvinist that is.

I confess that the Christ has came in the flesh, I believe and confess that God sent His Son, and I confess That this Begotten Son of God is my Lord, so according to Romans 10 and 1st John my name is written in Heaven. so however I do not believe in calvinism nor the 5 points of tulip, so calvinsit try and curse me if you will. but keep in mind your Holy Bible that you claim teaches calvinism , also teaches what God has Blessed no man can curse.

Edited January 25, 2013 by His_disciple3

[His_disciple3]

sevenseas

Seriously Mike? Seriously? The Holy Spirit is the help...not tongues...please remember what Paul had to say about speaking like an angel,

working miracles and having all knowledge...you can be filled with the Holy Spirit and not speak in tongues. The Bible says so.

I am pretty sure you took everything I typed and twisted it all up. Not playing the victim here, just saying.

Back to the OP, I have to side with His_disciple3 but reading through again, I don't Think L10 was trying to use Calvinism but just mentioned it because he saw a disagreement with their point system. Any points they make should be ignored of course. L10 made some other comparisons that were not election in nature.

Jesus Is Lord.

thank you for your insight, well taken

Edited January 25, 2013 by His_disciple3

[Sevenseas]

sevenseas

Seriously Mike? Seriously? The Holy Spirit is the help...not tongues...please remember what Paul had to say about speaking like an angel,

working miracles and having all knowledge...you can be filled with the Holy Spirit and not speak in tongues. The Bible says so.

I am pretty sure you took everything I typed and twisted it all up. Not playing the victim here, just saying.

Back to the OP, I have to side with His_disciple3 but reading through again, I don't Think L10 was trying to use Calvinism but just mentioned it because he saw a disagreement with their point system. Any points they make should be ignored of course. L10 made some other comparisons that were not election in nature.

Jesus Is Lord.

No. The issue with you seems to always end up being about tongues. As follows and what I referred to in my post

The Word gave the answer as to why so many different doctrines and belief system. First, not many even care to hear the Holy Spirit. You tell them that tongues is a great help in this area and they twist a bunch of scriptures as to why they won't bother with it.

Tongues is help to no one. The Holy Spirit is our helper. The Bible says so. I'm not at all twisting anything. If you think I have, I apologize

but I do not know how else to understand what you wrote...perhaps you meant differently and posted quickly and did not really write what

you actually meant

As you are aware I speak in tongues myself and use this gift, it could not be the issue I have with your post

I think OneLight gave a very good answer here and I know he believes in the gifts and yet he did not confuse the issue

with any gift in particular

As I don't make a practice of following the mods around and cheerleading their posts, I hope you do not believe I am trying to

do so now

In particular:

Why do men allow the clutter of their own ideas cloud what He is trying to say? Why do men start with an idea and then search scripture to find support instead of allowing the Holy Spirit to teach them through scripture? One answer as to why is found in 1 Corinthians 13 were we read " we look through a glass darkly", not fully understanding all that we are shown or read. We also read that pride was the first sin found in Lucifer, claiming to be like God. Out of pride comes arrogance, where all learning stops.

[theMadJW]

A simple question that has probably been thrown around Protestant circles for a few hundred years. Why do we have so many varying theological differences, and some that are hugely divisive? Why imparticular do we have such a huge difference in Arminian and Calvinist believers? Would the Holy Spirit not want us to know with clarity what is absolute? Or, is it that God does know all, who will be saved, if grace is resistible...., but He needs for us to drop our own pride. It is almost like liking opposing teams in a super bowl, and the person is not going to change their mind.

I have participated in many discussions that were sorta controversial, and shared scriptures, early manuscript translations, and many other tools to get to come conclusions. Some people come to a conclusion for Occum's razor (the least amount of discussion point points to a clearer one) and then they stick by that. Those people are probably fine, but they refuse to look deeper into what God may want them to look into.

Why does Nomran Geisler see 2 points to Calvinism, while Michael Horton or Charles Stanley see 5 points?

Why is Stephen Ashby sharing a reformed Arminian view that share penal substitution, which is in arms with Wesley followers?

Why do some people insist that the tribulation will not occur until all Christians are raptured, and others share mid Trib, post trib?

Would the Great Comforter not find it a great help to clear up these messes, and to bring about a dropping of our spiritual pride; simply to help us to understand some of these important truths?

If you don't believe they are important, you are free to share that.

Please, discern that I fully Believe the Holy Spirit dwells within me, and give me conviction, understanding, and I am not putting Him down one bit. I am asking a question that should challenge our minds though, and maybe even our very sin of pride. God Bless, and be gentle if you can

SIMPLE: Few WANT truth, and usually believe only what they WANT to believe.

Then, the fact that Religion makes money and power for its leaders....

[Littlelambseativy]

I would like to say that it is no different than why some like chocolate ice cream and some vanilla, some like blue and some pink, some like chicken and some beef. Some liked the teaching of Paul some followed James, some followed Peter and yet others saw something in the mix of James and Paul until we now have a mix of so much that there is even Chrislam.

Because of our individual experiences a certain teaching reaches into our hearts more so than others and the way we are brought up influences us even more. Certain ministers appeal to some whereas they and their teaching does not appeal to us at all. The way we each interpret the Bible is one thing that attracts us to a minister and his teaching.

[gdemoss]

A simple question that has probably been thrown around Protestant circles for a few hundred years. Why do we have so many varying theological differences, and some that are hugely divisive? Why imparticular do we have such a huge difference in Arminian and Calvinist believers? Would the Holy Spirit not want us to know with clarity what is absolute? Or, is it that God does know all, who will be saved, if grace is resistible...., but He needs for us to drop our own pride. It is almost like liking opposing teams in a super bowl, and the person is not going to change their mind.

There are so many differences in theology simply because everyone of them is making private interpretations of their own, and think that the Holy Spirit is the one speaking to them when actually it is their own human interpretation. If I were to take this sentence: I didn't say that you stole money.....and thousands of years in the future people find this one statement.....it could actually be interpreted in 4 different ways.

1. I didn't say that you stole money......means that I didn't say it. It was said by someone else.

2. I didn't say that YOU stole money.....means that i named someone else, not you.

3. I didn't say that you STOLE money....means that I actually said "borrowed" not stole.

4. I didn't say that you stole MONEY......means that you stole something else, not money.

So, if this one statement can be interpreted in 4 different ways, how much more the Holy Bible? One then should ask who then has the authority to accurately interpret the Holy Bible? And if you say the Holy Spirit....remember that all those people claimed to have the Holy Spirit in them. Furthermore, the Bible also warned of making private interpretations of Scripture. There are different theologies because all of them were making private interpretations.

2 Peter 1:20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.

5 maybe?

I didn't say that you stole money - I only thought it or wrote it down or what ever else opposes the action of 'saying'.

Thanks for the exercise!

[OneLight]

A simple question that has probably been thrown around Protestant circles for a few hundred years. Why do we have so many varying theological differences, and some that are hugely divisive? Why imparticular do we have such a huge difference in Arminian and Calvinist believers? Would the Holy Spirit not want us to know with clarity what is absolute? Or, is it that God does know all, who will be saved, if grace is resistible...., but He needs for us to drop our own pride. It is almost like liking opposing teams in a super bowl, and the person is not going to change their mind.

There are so many differences in theology simply because everyone of them is making private interpretations of their own, and think that the Holy Spirit is the one speaking to them when actually it is their own human interpretation. If I were to take this sentence: I didn't say that you stole money.....and thousands of years in the future people find this one statement.....it could actually be interpreted in 4 different ways.

1. I didn't say that you stole money......means that I didn't say it. It was said by someone else.

2. I didn't say that YOU stole money.....means that i named someone else, not you.

3. I didn't say that you STOLE money....means that I actually said "borrowed" not stole.

4. I didn't say that you stole MONEY......means that you stole something else, not money.

So, if this one statement can be interpreted in 4 different ways, how much more the Holy Bible? One then should ask who then has the authority to accurately interpret the Holy Bible? And if you say the Holy Spirit....remember that all those people claimed to have the Holy Spirit in them. Furthermore, the Bible also warned of making private interpretations of Scripture. There are different theologies because all of them were making private interpretations.

2 Peter 1:20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.

Context is the key. This could of been said in as many different settings as there are different ways to read it. Let's analyze a little deeper.

1. I didn't say that you stole money......means that I didn't say it. It was said by someone else. Which could of been said and read this way if someone is asking why they had said something.

2. I didn't say that YOU stole money.....means that i named someone else, not you. Which could of been said and read this way if someone is asking why they are being accused.

3. I didn't say that you STOLE money....means that I actually said "borrowed" not stole. Which could of been said and read this way if someone is asking why they are saying they stole it if they borrowed it.

4. I didn't say that you stole MONEY......means that you stole something else, not money. Which could of been said and read this way if someone is referring to what was stolen.

You present a situation without showing the whole picture. This is the problem with a lot of conflicts, tunnel vision. If your example provided a full picture, there would be a better understanding of what took place and what the question was about.

About being led by the Spirit, one needs to walk closely with the Lord to better hear Him. That is what growing in Christ is all about, a closer walk. Who else are they to listen to? Man?? I pray not.