Salvation

[OneLight]

You did not address one word Jesus said, but tried to sift the conversation to another part of scripture. Let me be as plain as possible. What do you think about what Jesus said to the church of Sardis pertaining to being blotted out of the Book of Life? Here is the scripture once again.

Revelation 3:5

He who overcomes shall be clothed in white garments, and I will not blot out his name from the Book of Life; but I will confess his name before My Father and before His angels.

Our Lord made a very clear statement, and one that can easily be understood when comparing scripture. First, "he who overcomes". Every single one of God's born one's overcomes the world, this is a bible fact.

1Jn 5:4 for everyone born of God overcomes the world. This is the victory that has overcome the world, even our faith.

1Jn 5:5 Who is it that overcomes the world? Only the one who believes that Jesus is the Son of God.

1Jn 4:4 You, dear children, are from God and have overcome them, because the one who is in you is greater than the one who is in the world.

While you are doing your best to prove a point that one can be blotted out, you miss the bigger picture in that this is Christ reiterating his precious promises of never blotting out the name of the one who overcomes. All saints of God over come and our garments are made white by his precious blood. The thought is not the threat of being blotted out, but that the over comer will not be blotted out.

Do you think anyone not born of God would overcome? I didn't think so, so to make an argument based on this is not convincing. I am not trying to prove anything, but to open your eyes to what He is saying. If you really take the time to look at the letters in Revelation, Jesus does talk about those who overcome. Jesus was talking to those who are in Him, giving them a a warning. You can ignore the truth if you want, that is your choice, but there is no getting around it in the end.

[OneLight]

Read what the Greek says. Jesus is speaking to believers. Believers are the only ones who have their name written in the Book of Life.

I am sorry to disappoint you my friend but there is two books mentioned in scriptures, the book of life where everyone that has ever lived has been part of, then there is the Lamb's book of life, where those that are in Christ is written, so for someone to have their name taken out of the book of life is simply that, they stop living, let me share another verse that will support that those in Christ never die, I will be given it to you in english, that is my language

Joh_8:52

Then said the Jews unto him, Now we know that thou hast a devil. Abraham is dead, and the prophets; and thou sayest, If a man keep my saying, he shall never taste of death.

of course there is a teaching concerning that the book of life and the lamb's book of life is indeed the same Book that everyone is written and are only blotted out when they reject Christ, so actaully your verses prove nothing concerning salvation

The teaching of the book of life being the names of all who have lived is a false teaching. Read Revelation 20:15 "And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire." If this book contained everyone who ever lived, then nobody would be cast into the lake of fire.

didn't you read my last staement about the teaching of some as to saying that everybody is written in the Book of life, and only after they have rejected Christ are their names blotted out, thus anyone not found in the book was cast in to hell

I was addressing the fact that you were saying that everyone ever born was written in the book of life. There is no scripture to back your claim, but scripture to point that one is written in the book of life after they accept Christ. You are taking a privilege to include extra-biblical beliefs that is not scriptural. There is references to a book, but it is not called the Book of Life. Sorry, but you are wrong.

[gdemoss]

Tit 3:5-6 KJV

(5)Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

(6)Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;

Most excellent points

We do not get credit.

• It is not for anything we have done as 'who can bring him down from above?'. It isn't because we were righteous that he chose to send Jesus Christ but because God so loved the world as God is love.
  
  He gets all the credit for all that salvation is truly comprised of which can be seen in those verses.
  • It took Gods mercy to save us. He had to choose to give us what we did not deserve and that is salvation.
    
  • By the washing of regeneration which is equally translated the baptism of the new birth which is part of salvation.
    
  • And the renewing of the Holy Ghost (Spirit) which is the sanctification process by which our minds are refreshed and made new again, which is also part of salvation.
    

  Salvation is a process not an event when considered as a whole. Each part individually can be spoken of on its own and after it has occurred one can use the term 'saved' to describe it in a past tense. For example we were 'saved' by the blood when we received the atonement for our sin but yet we are saved by his life still yet through his intercession for us all the while he is saving us through the process of sanctification and finally our Salvation, as a whole, will be revealed at his coming.

  Praise God for all his works of salvation!

[BlessedByTheBest]

yes brother Gary, i feel that it is an important point.

if salvation is a process, then i am not truly saved until His Glorious return.

as such, i will be working out my salvation in fear and with trembling.

[Guest Butero]

Read what the Greek says. Jesus is speaking to believers. Believers are the only ones who have their name written in the Book of Life.

lol I can't read greek, and that is just your own private interpretation. You cannot believe that Christ was ONLY addressing believers unless you are willing to say that everyone in the local assembly is a saved man or woman. He was addressing REAL churches first and foremost.You cannot use those passages to try and "cancel" clear scripture.

He most definately was addressing real believers, and OneLight is correct in saying only true born again believers have their name written in the book of life. This is not debatable. He was addressing a Christian assembly,not unbelievers. Had be been addressing unbelievers, he would have been giving them the message of salvation. I don't need to know Greek to see that.

[asper]

You did not address one word Jesus said, but tried to sift the conversation to another part of scripture. Let me be as plain as possible. What do you think about what Jesus said to the church of Sardis pertaining to being blotted out of the Book of Life? Here is the scripture once again.

Revelation 3:5

He who overcomes shall be clothed in white garments, and I will not blot out his name from the Book of Life; but I will confess his name before My Father and before His angels.

Our Lord made a very clear statement, and one that can easily be understood when comparing scripture. First, "he who overcomes". Every single one of God's born one's overcomes the world, this is a bible fact.

1Jn 5:4 for everyone born of God overcomes the world. This is the victory that has overcome the world, even our faith.

1Jn 5:5 Who is it that overcomes the world? Only the one who believes that Jesus is the Son of God.

1Jn 4:4 You, dear children, are from God and have overcome them, because the one who is in you is greater than the one who is in the world.

While you are doing your best to prove a point that one can be blotted out, you miss the bigger picture in that this is Christ reiterating his precious promises of never blotting out the name of the one who overcomes. All saints of God over come and our garments are made white by his precious blood. The thought is not the threat of being blotted out, but that the over comer will not be blotted out.

Do you think anyone not born of God would overcome? I didn't think so, so to make an argument based on this is not convincing. I am not trying to prove anything, but to open your eyes to what He is saying. If you really take the time to look at the letters in Revelation, Jesus does talk about those who overcome. Jesus was talking to those who are in Him, giving them a a warning. You can ignore the truth if you want, that is your choice, but there is no getting around it in the end.

Hi Onelight,

Good post and it is not that I don’t see your point about the letters in Revelation, but He was speaking to the whole church, not only to those that were born again. I would doubt that the whole church was born again.

2 Timothy 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

16 But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness.

17 And their word will eat as doth a canker: of whom is Hymenaeus and Philetus;

18 Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some.

19 ¶ Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.

20 But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth; and some to honour, and some to dishonour.

21 If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master’s use, and prepared unto every good work.

22 ¶ Flee also youthful lusts: but follow righteousness, faith, charity, peace, with them that call on the Lord out of a pure heart.

23 But foolish and unlearned questions avoid, knowing that they do gender strifes.

24 And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient,

25 In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will

give

them

repentance to the acknowledging of the truth;

26 And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.

I just want to give God the glory for my salvation. I don’t want to glorify myself.

Romans 10:6 But the righteousness which is of faith speaketh on this wise, Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ down from above:)

7 Or, Who shall descend into the deep? (that is, to bring up Christ again from the dead.)

Galatians 3:3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?

Good talking with you again…

[Guest Butero]

Read what the Greek says. Jesus is speaking to believers. Believers are the only ones who have their name written in the Book of Life.

I am sorry to disappoint you my friend but there is two books mentioned in scriptures, the book of life where everyone that has ever lived has been part of, then there is the Lamb's book of life, where those that are in Christ is written, so for someone to have their name taken out of the book of life is simply that, they stop living, let me share another verse that will support that those in Christ never die, I will be given it to you in english, that is my language

Joh_8:52

Then said the Jews unto him, Now we know that thou hast a devil. Abraham is dead, and the prophets; and thou sayest, If a man keep my saying, he shall never taste of death.

of course there is a teaching concerning that the book of life and the lamb's book of life is indeed the same Book that everyone is written and are only blotted out when they reject Christ, so actaully your verses prove nothing concerning salvation

That teaching is wrong. Your name is placed in the Book of Life only when you get saved. The two books are one and the same, and your name is not in those books automatically when you are born. Both sides have interpretations to make the other side null and void. I can tear apart every scripture those who believe in OSAS cling to and show that they don't prove anything. It is not that hard to do, so just because you come in here and attack the plain meaning with a false alternative meaning doesn't mean anyone is going to accept it. Of course the OSAS crowd will likely jump on it, but the rest of us will reject it.

[saved34]

Do you think anyone not born of God would overcome? I didn't think so, so to make an argument based on this is not convincing. I am not trying to prove anything, but to open your eyes to what He is saying. If you really take the time to look at the letters in Revelation, Jesus does talk about those who overcome. Jesus was talking to those who are in Him, giving them a a warning. You can ignore the truth if you want, that is your choice, but there is no getting around it in the end.

Again context is key, you say he is only talking to those who are in him, but how can this be when you look at verse 4?

Rev 3:4 Yet you have a few people in Sardis who have not soiled their clothes. They will walk with me, dressed in white, for they are worthy.

This is one group. He then addresses another group and says they will be like the first group if they overcome and they have the POTENTIAL to be dressed in white like the first group.

Rev 3:5 The one who is victorious will, like them, be dressed in white. I will never blot out the name of that person from the book of life, but will acknowledge that name before my Father and his angels.

Scripture is either right or wrong. Either everyone born of God overcomes, or that verse is a lie. If everyone born of God overcomes, then it must be acknowledged that these warnings are not to the saints of God, but to professors in the realm of the Church (the field of the world).

Let me ask you a question, what does it mean that everyone born of God overcomes? How do you reconcile that with what you are attempting to present?

1Jn 5:1 Everyone who believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God, and everyone who loves the father loves his child as well.

1Jn 5:4 for everyone born of God overcomes the world. This is the victory that has overcome the world, even our faith.

1Jn 5:5 Who is it that overcomes the world? Only the one who believes that Jesus is the Son of God.

I've answered your questions 5 ways from Sunday, now it would be only right if you answer me and explain what those scriptures mean to you. If one is not born again, he cannot overcome the world, but if one is born again how can his name ever be blotted out? He is guaranteed victory by the word of the Lord.

[Guest Butero]

You did not address one word Jesus said, but tried to sift the conversation to another part of scripture. Let me be as plain as possible. What do you think about what Jesus said to the church of Sardis pertaining to being blotted out of the Book of Life? Here is the scripture once again.

Revelation 3:5

He who overcomes shall be clothed in white garments, and I will not blot out his name from the Book of Life; but I will confess his name before My Father and before His angels.

Our Lord made a very clear statement, and one that can easily be understood when comparing scripture. First, "he who overcomes". Every single one of God's born one's overcomes the world, this is a bible fact.

1Jn 5:4 for everyone born of God overcomes the world. This is the victory that has overcome the world, even our faith.

1Jn 5:5 Who is it that overcomes the world? Only the one who believes that Jesus is the Son of God.

1Jn 4:4 You, dear children, are from God and have overcome them, because the one who is in you is greater than the one who is in the world.

While you are doing your best to prove a point that one can be blotted out, you miss the bigger picture in that this is Christ reiterating his precious promises of never blotting out the name of the one who overcomes. All saints of God over come and our garments are made white by his precious blood. The thought is not the threat of being blotted out, but that the over comer will not be blotted out.

Not true. Those chosen of God to be eternally kept will be kept, but those chosen by God to fall away will have their names blotted out of his book. Even you stated that if a person seems to get saved, lives the Christian life for 20 years, and then falls away, he is not really saved. You would say he was never really saved. That is a rejection of OSAS, because you have no way of knowing who was really saved? You could believe you are saved for 20 years, and be wrong. I would say that is correct. I can believe I am saved today, but turn my back on God a year from now, and be lost. That would indicate I was not predestined to be saved.

The whole key is predestination, if anyone would just accept what the Bible teaches at face value. Those that God gave to Jesus were not ever going to fall away, because they were pre-destined to be saved. At the same time, God won't reject anyone who comes to Christ, so even someone like Judas Iscarriot would have their name in the book of life as long as they believe and follow Christ, but when that person turns away from the Lord, the name is blotted out. This reconciles all the scriptures in question.

As I said earlier, there are no scriptures presented by the OSAS crowd I can't refute and show that they don't prove unconditional eternal secuirty as taught by most Baptists today. Both sides have their own interpretations why they are right, so going back and forth saying that my side is right and the other side is taking scripture out of context is a waste of time. It won't get anyone anywhere, because we have chosen sides, and believe what we do. We will continue to reject the other side, regardless of what they post, because we don't interpret the scriptures in the same fashion. Neither side will ever agree, unless God shows them something they missed.

[Guest Butero]

Read what the Greek says. Jesus is speaking to believers. Believers are the only ones who have their name written in the Book of Life.

I am sorry to disappoint you my friend but there is two books mentioned in scriptures, the book of life where everyone that has ever lived has been part of, then there is the Lamb's book of life, where those that are in Christ is written, so for someone to have their name taken out of the book of life is simply that, they stop living, let me share another verse that will support that those in Christ never die, I will be given it to you in english, that is my language

Joh_8:52

Then said the Jews unto him, Now we know that thou hast a devil. Abraham is dead, and the prophets; and thou sayest, If a man keep my saying, he shall never taste of death.

of course there is a teaching concerning that the book of life and the lamb's book of life is indeed the same Book that everyone is written and are only blotted out when they reject Christ, so actaully your verses prove nothing concerning salvation

The teaching of the book of life being the names of all who have lived is a false teaching. Read Revelation 20:15 "And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire." If this book contained everyone who ever lived, then nobody would be cast into the lake of fire.

didn't you read my last staement about the teaching of some as to saying that everybody is written in the Book of life, and only after they have rejected Christ are their names blotted out, thus anyone not found in the book was cast in to hell

Your statement is nothing but an opinion, and it is wrong. You can't prove it, so there is no reason for any of us to accept it.