Revelation 1:7

[*Zion*]

Hi, interesting discussion, to say the least! I always thought that the 'Second Coming' and the 'Rapture' were one and the same event...

[guysmith]

A good question is how did all those who see the Second Coming get within viewing distance. Acts 1:11b - This same Jesus, who has been taken from you into heaven, will come back in the same way you have seen him go into heaven. He went upward, He shall return in like manner (descending) One would need to be within a 1.000 to 2,000 mile radius of the Mt of Olives. How did the population of the earth get there??

In Christ

Montana Marv

Hello Montana,

Zechariah 14

14 A day of the Lord is coming, Jerusalem, when your possessions will be plundered and divided up within your very walls.

² I will gather all the nations to Jerusalem to fight against it;.....

In Yehoshua,

Guy Smith

[psalmsamuel]

Just to clarify for myself - how do you rationalize 1 Thes 4:15-18 with Rev 1:7 if Jesus feet touch the earth in the Rev. account and they do not in the Thes account but we meet Him in the air ? The Bible does not contradict itself so I would like your answer for these two differing accounts.

 

Revelation 1:7 (AV)

Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they [also] which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.

and

1 Thes 4:17

15 For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. 16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. 18 Therefore comfort one another with these words.

 

 

 

Hate: Call me terrorism and the world's evil.  I will make a river of blood and burn the body of a man with the ashes of the earth.  When jesus comes for me, he will blow up the planet (Mars), then I will know I am cut off from the earth, so as a man is holy because he is made in the image of god, the earth is also holy because it is his footstool and he judges all.

 

Love: I wash my skin three times a day, I say prayers before the living and the dead, and because I am faithful I am broken up and because I believe the beasts of the earth dress themselves up as men.  They burn my flesh and my bones and my blood is given to them for wine.  When Jesus comes for me, my skin will be clean, and my body will be separated from illness, the earth will be steadfast, and me, oh me, I will taken to heaven evermore.

 

(Something is coming now, and many believe, the earth will soon be shaken but the hair on the head of the children will not be harmed, they will wail, but the faithful will shed tears of joy, when the abomination of desolation is offered up to the prince of peace with it is taken mourning and sadness)

Edited June 6, 2013 by Pecker

[Guest]

Hate: Call me terrorism and the world's evil.  I will make a river of blood and burn the body of a man with the ashes of the earth.  When jesus comes for me, he will blow up the planet (Mars), then I will know I am cut off from the earth, so as a man is holy because he is made in the image of god, the earth is also holy because it is his footstool and he judges all.

 

Love: I wash my skin three times a day, I say prayers before the living and the dead, and because I am faithful I am broken up and because I believe the beasts of the earth dress themselves up as men.  They burn my flesh and my bones and my blood is given to them for wine.  When Jesus comes for me, my skin will be clean, and my body will be separated from illness, the earth will be steadfast, and me, oh me, I will taken to heaven evermore.

 

(Something is coming now, and many believe, the earth will soon be shaken but the hair on the head of the children will not be harmed, they will wail, but the faithful will shed tears of joy, when the abomination of desolation is offered up to the prince of peace with it is taken mourning and sadness)

 

~

 

Self

 

As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:

There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.

They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one. Romans 3:10-12

 

Or Jesus

 

And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood, Revelation 1:5

 

Beloved, Won't You Believe?

 

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. John 3:16

 

Love, Joe

[iamlamad]

Just to clarify for myself - how do you rationalize 1 Thes 4:15-18 with Rev 1:7 if Jesus feet touch the earth in the Rev. account and they do not in the Thes account but we meet Him in the air ? The Bible does not contradict itself so I would like your answer for these two differing accounts.

 

Revelation 1:7 (AV)

Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they [also] which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.

and

1 Thes 4:17

15 For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. 16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. 18 Therefore comfort one another with these words.

 

It is not difficult to "rationalize" these two verses. It is really very simple, they are speaking of two different comings. If we understand the chronology of Revelation, these two comings will be over 7  years apart. It clearly states that Jesus is in a cloud. If you remember, as He ascended He disappeared into a cloud. Therefore, no one on earth will see Him.

 

For the next coming, we have many scriptures. If it has been dark for days, the sun not giving its light, and suddenly the sky lights up brighter than the sun, will people see? Of course they will. And many cameras will be pointed to that light as it descends to earth near Jersualem. I am convinced He will seen worldwide on any tv still working.

 

It is clear, the bible shows us TWO MORE comings. Why not just believe what these verses say?

 

Paul tells us in 1 Thes. 5 that the Day of the Lord will follow immediately after the rapture, as if the rapture was the trigger. John tells us clearly that when Jesus comes on the white horse, He will face the battle of Armageddon. So two different comings for two different purposes. In the Rapture, Paul tells us that the spirits of those who have died in Christ come with Him to get their resurrection body. But in Revelation 19, the armies of heaven come with Jesus. The bride is included in those armies.

 

So again, two separate comings, two differnet purposes.  Lamad

Edited June 12, 2013 by iamlamad

[Littlelambseativy]

There are 2 comings -so to speak - one where we will meet Jesus in the air, and one where He returns and fights for Israel and the host of heaven and the bride come with HIm.

 

 

1 Thessalonians 4:13 But I do not want you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning those who have fallen asleep, lest you sorrow as others who have no hope. 14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who sleep in Jesus.[b]

15 For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. 16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. 18 Therefore comfort one another with these words.

 

and where His feet touch the Mount of Olives

 

Zechariah 14

New King James Version (NKJV)

The Day of the Lord

14 

Behold, the day of the Lord is coming,
And your spoil will be divided in your midst.

2 

For I will gather all the nations to battle against Jerusalem;
The city shall be taken,
The houses rifled,
And the women ravished.
Half of the city shall go into captivity,
But the remnant of the people shall not be cut off from the city.

3 

Then the Lord will go forth
And fight against those nations,
As He fights in the day of battle.

4 

And in that day His feet will stand on the Mount of Olives,
Which faces Jerusalem on the east.
And the Mount of Olives shall be split in two,
From east to west,
Making a very large valley;
Half of the mountain shall move toward the north
And half of it toward the south.

5 

Then you shall flee through My mountain valley,
For the mountain valley shall reach to Azal.
Yes, you shall flee
As you fled from the earthquake
In the days of Uzziah king of Judah.

Thus the Lord my God will come,
And all the saints with You.[a]

6 

It shall come to pass in that day
That there will be no light;
The lights will diminish.

7 

It shall be one day
Which is known to the Lord—
Neither day nor night.
But at evening time it shall happen
That it will be light.

8 

And in that day it shall be
That living waters shall flow from Jerusalem,
Half of them toward the eastern sea
And half of them toward the western sea;
In both summer and winter it shall occur.

9 

And the Lord shall be King over all the earth.
In that day it shall be—
“The Lord is one,”[b]
And His name one.

10 All the land shall be turned into a plain from Geba to Rimmon south of Jerusalem. Jerusalem[c] shall be raised up and inhabited in her place from Benjamin’s Gate to the place of the First Gate and the Corner Gate, and from the Tower of Hananel to the king’s winepresses.

11 

The people shall dwell in it;
And no longer shall there be utter destruction,
But Jerusalem shall be safely inhabited.

 

Read all of this chapter for yourselves.

[missmuffet]

 

When Jesus comes in the Rapture only the believers will see him.

 

You and others keep saying that, but where in scripture is this invisible coming described? And if you can actually answer that, I would prefer it be in words, not in a link to some article on the web. Bible verse would be great!

 

That is why I said the scripture refers to the second coming and not the rapture.

[Montana Marv]

 

 

When Jesus comes in the Rapture only the believers will see him.

 

You and others keep saying that, but where in scripture is this invisible coming described? And if you can actually answer that, I would prefer it be in words, not in a link to some article on the web. Bible verse would be great!

 

That is why I said the scripture refers to the second coming and not the rapture.

 

Here is a partial answer;

 

Heb 9:28b - and when he appears a second time, not to bear sin, but to bring salvation to those who are waiting for him.  I see a problem here with post-trib.  He is going to bring salvation to those who are waiting for him.  We as Christians today already have salvation, this is a no brainer.  If the Church is waiting for Him at the 2nd Coming; Why; to bring them salvation that they should already own is very awkward.

 

In 1 Thes 4 - Scripture says the dead in Christ rise first, then those who are still alive 'in Christ" will meet them in the air.  A question to be asked is who are those alive in Christ, for they must be the same as those "dead in Christ", which are NT Believers.  We have a date with Christ, we shall see Him, we will recognize Him as the Bridegroom.

 

In Christ

Montana Marv

[Littlelambseativy]

 

 

 

When Jesus comes in the Rapture only the believers will see him.

 

You and others keep saying that, but where in scripture is this invisible coming described? And if you can actually answer that, I would prefer it be in words, not in a link to some article on the web. Bible verse would be great!

 

That is why I said the scripture refers to the second coming and not the rapture.

 

Here is a partial answer;

 

Heb 9:28b - and when he appears a second time, not to bear sin, but to bring salvation to those who are waiting for him.  I see a problem here with post-trib.  He is going to bring salvation to those who are waiting for him.  We as Christians today already have salvation, this is a no brainer.  If the Church is waiting for Him at the 2nd Coming; Why; to bring them salvation that they should already own is very awkward.

 

In 1 Thes 4 - Scripture says the dead in Christ rise first, then those who are still alive 'in Christ" will meet them in the air.  A question to be asked is who are those alive in Christ, for they must be the same as those "dead in Christ", which are NT Believers.  We have a date with Christ, we shall see Him, we will recognize Him as the Bridegroom.

 

In Christ

Montana Marv

 

 

 

 

 

 

When Jesus comes in the Rapture only the believers will see him.

 

You and others keep saying that, but where in scripture is this invisible coming described? And if you can actually answer that, I would prefer it be in words, not in a link to some article on the web. Bible verse would be great!

 

That is why I said the scripture refers to the second coming and not the rapture.

 

Here is a partial answer;

 

Heb 9:28b - and when he appears a second time, not to bear sin, but to bring salvation to those who are waiting for him.  I see a problem here with post-trib.  He is going to bring salvation to those who are waiting for him.  We as Christians today already have salvation, this is a no brainer.  If the Church is waiting for Him at the 2nd Coming; Why; to bring them salvation that they should already own is very awkward.

 

In 1 Thes 4 - Scripture says the dead in Christ rise first, then those who are still alive 'in Christ" will meet them in the air.  A question to be asked is who are those alive in Christ, for they must be the same as those "dead in Christ", which are NT Believers.  We have a date with Christ, we shall see Him, we will recognize Him as the Bridegroom.

 

In Christ

Montana Marv

 

I gave you that in my response to you. The first part is the rapture found in 1Thes.

LL

[John S]

Jesus is coming ONCE - to end the Tribulation which brings about the Millenium - the period where there will be 1000 years without Satan ruining things for everyone.