gdemoss Posted May 1, 2013 Group: Royal Member Followers: 8 Topic Count: 59 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 4,402 Content Per Day: 0.98 Reputation: 2,154 Days Won: 28 Joined: 02/10/2012 Status: Offline Birthday: 04/26/1971 Share Posted May 1, 2013 Psa 38:1 [[A Psalm of David, to bring to remembrance.]] O LORD, rebuke me not in thy wrath: neither chasten me in thy hot displeasure. Show me one place where it says that God is not angry when he chastens please. As I understand God, he bites back on his anger and holds off his wrath but when he does correct it is out of anger with the one whom he is correcting. We may have to agree to disagree here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sevenseas Posted May 1, 2013 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 30 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,373 Content Per Day: 0.76 Reputation: 683 Days Won: 22 Joined: 02/28/2012 Status: Offline Author Share Posted May 1, 2013 Psa 38:1 [[A Psalm of David, to bring to remembrance.]] O LORD, rebuke me not in thy wrath: neither chasten me in thy hot displeasure. Show me one place where it says that God is not angry when he chastens please. As I understand God, he bites back on his anger and holds off his wrath but when he does correct it is out of anger with the one whom he is correcting. We may have to agree to disagree here. Yuh know...I am starting to think that one gets out of the Bible what they perceive in God. If they think He is angry and vengeful, then He is angry and vengeful. If they think He is good and kind and loving, then He is good and kind and loving. Jesus was angry when He chased the money changers out of the temple area. I was angry at someone this morning (not on this forum lest the rumors start). There is a difference between chastisement and wrath. No one said God was never angry...the thing is though, that He is also patient and not willing that any should perish. God is love. The Bible does not say God is anger. The Bible says that God is love...each and every thing He does is tempered with His love and His holiness..He is Holy in all that He does. It would seem you may believe that God treats sinners and believers the same way. I do not believe in that God. Thank you for explaining what you believe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gdemoss Posted May 1, 2013 Group: Royal Member Followers: 8 Topic Count: 59 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 4,402 Content Per Day: 0.98 Reputation: 2,154 Days Won: 28 Joined: 02/10/2012 Status: Offline Birthday: 04/26/1971 Share Posted May 1, 2013 Psa 38:1 [[A Psalm of David, to bring to remembrance.]] O LORD, rebuke me not in thy wrath: neither chasten me in thy hot displeasure. Show me one place where it says that God is not angry when he chastens please. As I understand God, he bites back on his anger and holds off his wrath but when he does correct it is out of anger with the one whom he is correcting. We may have to agree to disagree here. Yuh know...I am starting to think that one gets out of the Bible what they perceive in God. If they think He is angry and vengeful, then He is angry and vengeful. If they think He is good and kind and loving, then He is good and kind and loving. Jesus was angry when He chased the money changers out of the temple area. I was angry at someone this morning (not on this forum lest the rumors start). There is a difference between chastisement and wrath. No one said God was never angry...the thing is though, that He is also patient and not willing that any should perish. God is love. The Bible does not say God is anger. The Bible says that God is love...each and every thing He does is tempered with His love and His holiness..He is Holy in all that He does. It would seem you may believe that God treats sinners and believers the same way. I do not believe in that God. Thank you for explaining what you believe. God is the God of everyone. He comes down a lot harder on believers than unbelievers. For this cause Asaph had a difficult time and wrote Psalm 73. Asaph almost slipped up and went off the beaten path due to seeing how the ungodly prospered while Gods people suffered regular chastisement. The ones who get it the worst are believers who continue in sin. As it is written, we are not appointed to wrath and have been saved from the wrath to come. The context of these verses speaking of the coming of the Lord when he comes with ten thousands of his saints to execute judgment on the world of the ungodly. But to say that Gods chastisement is not done out of his wrath is like saying that God does not love his enemies. Why is it that we naturally try to draw everything in nice black and white pictures when it is truly in living color? When my son does something he knows is wrong and I find out, I become angry at his deed. I may even pour out a little of my wrath upon him for his own good, out of love for him. I do as I see my Father in heaven do unto his children. Now of course I do not unleash all of my wrath upon the child and destroy him from the face of the earth but that which is prudent to achieve the correction necessary in his behavior. I hope this better clarifies how I am using the words. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wingnut- Posted May 2, 2013 Group: Royal Member Followers: 39 Topic Count: 101 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 7,673 Content Per Day: 1.31 Reputation: 7,358 Days Won: 67 Joined: 04/22/2008 Status: Offline Share Posted May 2, 2013 Perhaps you should illustrate one example from scripture that displays wrath for a believer. Anger and wrath are two different animals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sevenseas Posted May 2, 2013 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 30 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,373 Content Per Day: 0.76 Reputation: 683 Days Won: 22 Joined: 02/28/2012 Status: Offline Author Share Posted May 2, 2013 "For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ..." 1 Thess 5:9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fez Posted May 2, 2013 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 683 Topics Per Day: 0.12 Content Count: 11,128 Content Per Day: 2.00 Reputation: 1,352 Days Won: 54 Joined: 02/03/2009 Status: Offline Birthday: 12/07/1952 Share Posted May 2, 2013 God will break down our idols, and sometimes that feels to us like His wrath and anger. When what it really is, is Love for us. Even as a child medicine tasted bad........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnD Posted May 3, 2013 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 0 Topic Count: 908 Topics Per Day: 0.19 Content Count: 9,653 Content Per Day: 2.02 Reputation: 5,837 Days Won: 9 Joined: 04/07/2011 Status: Offline Share Posted May 3, 2013 I'd like to weigh in on this. The scriptures do indeed teach that we who believe in the Son of God are delivered from HIS (GOD'S) wrath. Isaiah 54:9-10 (NASB95) 9 “For this is like the days of Noah to Me, When I swore that the waters of Noah Would not flood the earth again; So I have sworn that I will not be angry with you Nor will I rebuke you. 10 “For the mountains may be removed and the hills may shake, But My lovingkindness will not be removed from you, And My covenant of peace will not be shaken,” Says the Lord who has compassion on you. Along with the other scriptures quoted here by Seven and others. Well done! God's wrath is what needs defining here. 1. God's wrath is what is poured out on all of the fallen angels* and the humans who do not believe in Jesus (Psalm 95:11 / Hebrews 4:3 / Nahum 1:2 / 2 Thessalonians 1:18 / 1 Peter 3:19 / 2 Peter 2:4 / Jude 6 . * there is no redemption for fallen angels for their sin was in their infinite (eternal) state. Man by the fact we can die and have an infinite state affords us the ability to be redeemed and so the Redeemer became one of us to save us. No such redeemer does or could exist for fallen angels. 2. God's wrath is what is poured out on humanity at the end time of the 70th Week of Daniel for the purpose of getting the survivors in Israel to cry out to Jesus (even as a last resort). Jeremiah 30:7 / Psalm 118:25-26 (Hosanna is actually "hosha nah!" save now! / Zechariah 14 / Zechariah 12:2-14 3. God's wrath is what was poured out on Jesus on the cross for the sins of all mankind on deposit (1 John 2:2) activated on an individual basis with individual faith (1 Timothy 4:10 / John 3:16-18). This also sealed up the unfinished business about all sin everywhere (Colossians 1:20). God's wrath is not when he disciplines us (even takes us to the old woodshed for a whippin') in this life. Remember, he is not angry with us anymore. Yes he can be grieved. Grieve not the Holy Spirit... and if we are so stupid as to not confess and forsake our sin to restore fellowship (1 John 1:1 - 1 John 2:6) he will take us out of this life in order to preserve our salvation. 1 Corinthians 5:5 (NASB95) 5 I have decided to deliver such a one to Satan for the destruction of his flesh, so that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus. Notice that he turns such an one over to Satan to do the dirty deed. When God removes his protective hedge... WATCH OUT! All our enemies in hell and earth are coming for us. But God is not angry or wroth with us. Even in the believer's tribulation (the first half of the 70th Week of Daniel) Revelation 12:17 / Revelation 13:5-10... it's the wrath of the devil and man against God (the Church... remember when Paul persecuted the Church Jesus said "Why do you persecute ME?"). First half the devils wrath against God (through the Church). Last half God's wrath against the devil and fallen man. What is left of the Church will be raptured out on day 1335 before the wrath of God is unleashed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xero Posted May 3, 2013 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 5 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 365 Content Per Day: 0.08 Reputation: 90 Days Won: 6 Joined: 03/16/2012 Status: Offline Share Posted May 3, 2013 Obadiah 1:15 "The day of the LORD is near for all nations. As you have done, it will be done to you; your deeds will return upon your own head." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sevenseas Posted May 3, 2013 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 30 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,373 Content Per Day: 0.76 Reputation: 683 Days Won: 22 Joined: 02/28/2012 Status: Offline Author Share Posted May 3, 2013 I'd like to weigh in on this. The scriptures do indeed teach that we who believe in the Son of God are delivered from HIS (GOD'S) wrath. Thank you for taking the time to post all of that John. I know it won't settle the matter for some, but I appreciate it! Thank you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
other one Posted May 3, 2013 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 29 Topic Count: 599 Topics Per Day: 0.08 Content Count: 56,221 Content Per Day: 7.56 Reputation: 27,945 Days Won: 271 Joined: 12/29/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted May 3, 2013 I don't think it's God's wrath that concerns me......... it's the Devil's that makes me ponder a while. He can't get to God so he seems to want to take his frustration out on us. At least it seems that way to me.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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