Christians and God's Wrath

[Sevenseas]

... Ananias and Saphira come to mind,....

Since this was brought up, I've been mulling it over some.

I have a question up for grabs.

Was the deaths of Ananias and Saphira God's wrath poured out against two individuals? Or was it God's discipline against the church body?

(A point to consider, how many members before them may have sold their land not out of the goodness and joy of their hearts but for the accolades it gave?)

It doesn't matter, I think, how many may or may not have sold whatever because Peter told Ananias that the land was their's and they could have done with the

proceeds as they wished. The sin, was lying..as Peter put it...to the Holy Spirit and that was the cause of instant death for this couple.

IMO, it was judgement. Could be wrong, but I think that is how I would regard it. I guess others will weigh in.

[wingnut-]

... Ananias and Saphira come to mind,....

Since this was brought up, I've been mulling it over some.

I have a question up for grabs.

Was the deaths of Ananias and Saphira God's wrath poured out against two individuals? Or was it God's discipline against the church body?

(A point to consider, how many members before them may have sold their land not out of the goodness and joy of their hearts but for the accolades it gave?)

Well I don't see the word wrath associated within the passages pertaining to them, nor do we know if they were truly believers or not. Having said that, there is a passage somewhere that talks about how God will remove His protection from someone so that they may be killed to save their soul. Not sure where it is, I'm horrible with chapter and verse, maybe someone else can help.

Are you perhaps thinking about Paul telling the congregation in Corinth to put out the man who was living with his father's wife?

John, in post 37, posted that scripture in conjunction with his etxplanation regarding correction and wrath...which I thought was very good. See below...I think that is what you might have in mind?

1 Corinthians 5:5 (NASB95)

5 I have decided to deliver such a one to Satan for the destruction of his flesh, so that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.

Yeah, that's the one, thanks.

[Guest]

.... Do I think Christians suffer God's Wrath........ I don't think so...... any scripture that would describe that....

Jesus

For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ, 1 Thessalonians 5:9

Saves

Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them. Hebrews 7:25

Really Saves

Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy, To the only wise God our Saviour, be glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and ever. Amen. Jude 1:24-25

[gdemoss]

As I understand it, those of you in the anti-wrath crowd are making a complete separation between anger, correction and wrath. While I can appreciate your use of the terms, I believe we all agree on certain principle without agreeing to the use of the terms to describe them and the distance that needs to be placed between them. I hold a much closer connection to the words than the rest seem too and that gives the appearance of disagreement between us when there really is little as I can see.

When God's complete wrath is poured out upon the earth it will be horrific and we are saved from that for sure. Here is something to show the closeness I see in the words anger and wrath.

Deu 29:28 And the LORD rooted them out of their land in anger, and in wrath, and in great indignation, and cast them into another land, as [it is] this day.

Jer 21:5 And I myself will fight against you with an outstretched hand and with a strong arm, even in anger, and in fury, and in great wrath.

In the English translations of the bible the words anger and wrath are used interchangeably to translate Hebrew words speaking of anger or wrath. They are used in association with God's correction of his people as well through chastisement but for some there is a barrier in the mind that keeps the two completely separate and they cannot connect correction to wrath and that is OK so long as they understand that God is pissed when we are disobedient and sends the rod of correction upon our backs when we are foolish.

Peace is only in Christ.

[Sevenseas]

I have reposted this from John...what do you think of his post? The bold type is mine, but the words are all his. See post # 37 I think he gave a balanced and

helpful post concerning the op

The scriptures do indeed teach that we who believe in the Son of God are delivered from HIS (GOD'S) wrath.

Isaiah 54:9-10 (NASB95)

9 “For this is like the days of Noah to Me, When I swore that the waters of Noah Would not flood the earth again; So I have sworn that I will not be angry with you Nor will I rebuke you.

10 “For the mountains may be removed and the hills may shake, But My lovingkindness will not be removed from you, And My covenant of peace will not be shaken,” Says the Lord who has compassion on you.

Along with the other scriptures quoted here by Seven and others. Well done!

God's wrath is what needs defining here.

1. God's wrath is what is poured out on all of the fallen angels* and the humans who do not believe in Jesus (Psalm 95:11 / Hebrews 4:3 / Nahum 1:2 / 2 Thessalonians 1:18 / 1 Peter 3:19 / 2 Peter 2:4 / Jude 6 .

* there is no redemption for fallen angels for their sin was in their infinite (eternal) state. Man by the fact we can die and have an infinite state affords us the ability to be redeemed and so the Redeemer became one of us to save us. No such redeemer does or could exist for fallen angels.

2. God's wrath is what is poured out on humanity at the end time of the 70th Week of Daniel for the purpose of getting the survivors in Israel to cry out to Jesus (even as a last resort). Jeremiah 30:7 / Psalm 118:25-26 (Hosanna is actually "hosha nah!" save now! / Zechariah 14 / Zechariah 12:2-14

3. God's wrath is what was poured out on Jesus on the cross for the sins of all mankind on deposit (1 John 2:2) activated on an individual basis with individual faith (1 Timothy 4:10 / John 3:16-18). This also sealed up the unfinished business about all sin everywhere (Colossians 1:20).

God's wrath is not when he disciplines us (even takes us to the old woodshed for a whippin') in this life. Remember, he is not angry with us anymore. Yes he can be grieved. Grieve not the Holy Spirit... and if we are so stupid as to not confess and forsake our sin to restore fellowship (1 John 1:1 - 1 John 2:6) he will take us out of this life in order to preserve our salvation.

[Guest man]

"For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ..." 1 Thess 5:9

Those who preach that we are going through the trib is xxxxxful, but I cannot figure out to what end (purpose) they wish to believe that.

The verse you quoted is not an escape clause.

Tribulation and wrath are two totally different events.

[Sevenseas]

"For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ..." 1 Thess 5:9

Those who preach that we are going through the trib is xxxxxful, but I cannot figure out to what end (purpose) they wish to believe that.

The verse you quoted is not an escape clause.

Tribulation and wrath are two totally different events.

Could we please not try to make it look like someone said something they did not actually say? I find it helps to add to a thread, rather then just take exception with what we

may perceive as something said by someone else

No one has made the statement that they think there is some sort of an escape clause and this thread is not about pre, mid, or post rapture events. There are already

a nice selection of threads on those subjects and that was not my intention here. Thanks for understanding.

[Guest man]

"For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ..." 1 Thess 5:9

Those who preach that we are going through the trib is xxxxxful, but I cannot figure out to what end (purpose) they wish to believe that.

The verse you quoted is not an escape clause.

Tribulation and wrath are two totally different events.

Could we please not try to make it look like someone said something they did not actually say? I find it helps to add to a thread, rather then just take exception with what we

may perceive as something said by someone else

No one has made the statement that they think there is some sort of an escape clause and this thread is not about pre, mid, or post rapture events. There are already

a nice selection of threads on those subjects and that was not my intention here. Thanks for understanding.

Pre-tribbers use that verse as some sort of proof that believers won't be going through the tribulation. There's a difference between the tribulation and God's wrath and many don't understand that. They equate tribulation with wrath.

As for christians and God's wrath, that question was answered in the 2nd post.

[Sevenseas]

Pre-tribbers use that verse as some sort of proof that believers won't be going through the tribulation. There's a difference between the tribulation and God's wrath and many don't understand that. They equate tribulation with wrath.

As for christians and God's wrath, that question was answered in the 2nd post.

Well, I think the evidence for that assumption is lacking in that verse...so I agree, but again, really not wanting to introduce yet more about pre-dur-post here...I do see where

there is room for that discussion concerning God's wrath, but it seems some are thinking that God is dealing out wrath now when we sin...in fact, I have seen where one Christian

is saying another Christian is going to experience the wrath of God for some reason

So, I started this thread in the hopes of clarifying things or at least discussing them...but again, your point is valid, just might confuze some even more

[Guest man]

Well you certainly have a point there other one, but this is what I was wanting to discuss: Do Christians endure or suffer God's wrath? Scripture please to flesh out your response.

But like I said, you do have a point

No.

Romans 1

¹⁸ For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who suppress the truth in unrighteousness,

Thessalonians makes it crystal clear.

1 Thessalonians 5

⁹ For God did not appoint us to wrath, but to obtain salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ,

God's wrath is reserved for the nonbeliever.

Revelation 16

⁸ Then the fourth angel poured out his bowl on the sun, and power was given to him to scorch men with fire.

⁹ And men were scorched with great heat, and they blasphemed the name of God who has power over these plagues; and they did not repent and give Him glory.

¹⁰ Then the fifth angel poured out his bowl on the throne of the beast, and his kingdom became full of darkness; and they gnawed their tongues because of the pain.

¹¹ They blasphemed the God of heaven because of their pains and their sores, and did not repent of their deeds.