Are people in Heaven?

[JohnR7]

On 5/15/2013 at 5:29 PM, paulajeanne said:

I need a way I can simplify this to others lol

Paul tells us: "To be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord" 2 Corinthians 5/8) This is the rapture where we leave our Body behind. The resurrection is where our Body will be raised from the dead and reunited with our Soul and Spirit. 

[Christine]

On 9/8/2022 at 9:17 PM, JohnR7 said:

Paul tells us: "To be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord" 2 Corinthians 5/8) This is the rapture where we leave our Body behind. The resurrection is where our Body will be raised from the dead and reunited with our Soul and Spirit. 

'We are confident, I say, 
and willing rather to be absent from the body, 
and to be present with the Lord.'
(2 Cor. 5:8)

Hello @JohnR7,

With respect, the words you have placed between quotation marks is not an accurate quotation of 2 Corinthians 5:8 (above).  Also that verse has a context which should be read with it, from 2 Corinthians 5:1 onwards.

I would urge you to consider your words in the light of what Scripture actually says concerning both the state of the dead, and the resurrection.

Within the love of Christ
our risen and glorified, 
Saviour, Lord and Head.
Chris 

 

  

[JohnR7]

On 3/31/2023 at 7:47 AM, Christine said:

I would urge you to consider your words

There are two words: rapture and resurrection. They are not the same word. You can define them anyway you want. I made no attempt to explain what rapture or resurrection means. 

[Philologos]

On 5/15/2013 at 10:06 AM, paulajeanne said:

Some say we will not go to heaven untill Jesus comes...."the dead will rise first"....

 

So many times in the Bible it says that We will reunite in Heaven when He comes. It's not clear to me ... Are the dead in Heaven?

 

I always believed my loved ones died and went right up to see our Lord and that there looking down on us...

 

Then one day I heard a preacher say that's not so.

We are in the grave untill Heaven is ready and the 2nd comming of Christ.....

 

Now I'm confused..

Help...

The confusion is in how we define ‘heaven.’ 
Paradise is not “heaven,” per se. It is in the spiritual realm and is where Jesus said he would be. Some argue that Jesus is in Heaven, on his throne. Well, yeah, but he’s not confined to just sitting on a throne for a couple thousand years- he has things to do, like visit his royal subjects in paradise. 
People don’t go to God’s heavenly throne when they die, but they do go to paradise, which is often referred to as “heaven” by many.

[tim_from_pa]

On 5/15/2013 at 10:06 AM, paulajeanne said:

Some say we will not go to heaven untill Jesus comes...."the dead will rise first"....

 

So many times in the Bible it says that We will reunite in Heaven when He comes. It's not clear to me ... Are the dead in Heaven?

 

I always believed my loved ones died and went right up to see our Lord and that there looking down on us...

 

Then one day I heard a preacher say that's not so.

We are in the grave untill Heaven is ready and the 2nd comming of Christ.....

 

Now I'm confused..

Help...

I tell you what I believe based on the Bible.  We sleep until the resurrection.  However, keep in mind that as the Bible says there is no knowledge in death.  No sense of time, so the next conscious moment will "instantly" be the resurrection as if we went into the future with a time machine. I always jest the person who died will instantly be with some of those who were alive and say, "I just died and you are all here with me already?"  So the dead do not miss us. We miss them for a season.  

Now there are some who will then ask questions like where did Moses go after he died?  How about the Transfiguration?  Here's the Clues:  Visions, portal, future, past "time machine".  Time as we know it is very different "over there".  So yes, loved ones can be "looking down" at us through time, but we are also there with them, so in a sense the Lord may not only be looking down, but perhaps even discussing with us how things in the past were to turn out.  They are there now, not not yet.

[Alive]

27 minutes ago, tim_from_pa said:

I tell you what I believe based on the Bible.  We sleep until the resurrection.  However, keep in mind that as the Bible says there is no knowledge in death.  No sense of time, so the next conscious moment will "instantly" be the resurrection as if we went into the future with a time machine. I always jest the person who died will instantly be with some of those who were alive and say, "I just died and you are all here with me already?"  So the dead do not miss us. We miss them for a season.  

Now there are some who will then ask questions like where did Moses go after he died?  How about the Transfiguration?  Here's the Clues:  Visions, portal, future, past "time machine".  Time as we know it is very different "over there".  So yes, loved ones can be "looking down" at us through time, but we are also there with them, so in a sense the Lord may not only be looking down, but perhaps even discussing with us how things in the past were to turn out.  They are there now, not not yet.

Other than the time specualtion thing at the end, this is what I see scripture teaching. We sleep in sheol and the dead know nothing. The mystery is contained in that bit where, we that are in Christ, have had our Life hidden with Christ in God.

[enoob57]

2 Corinthians 5:6 (KJV)

[6] Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord:

[7] (For we walk by faith, not by sight:)

[8] We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.
             It is clear the moment of death we will be present with The Lord

Philippians 1:23 (KJV)

[23] For I am in a strait betwixt two, having a desire to depart, and to be with Christ; which is far better:
            Paul certainly believed the immediacy of this event... 

We should never ignore the clear teaching of Scripture and are warned by God about doing so
2 Corinthians 10:5 (KJV)

[5] Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;

It is also a basic understanding in hermeneutics 'when the plain sense make sense seek no other sense'

[ladypeartree]

WOW this argument has been ongoing for 10 years the original poster left that long ago too,

God knows I dont need to know what He has planned if I sleep and wake in His presence that is fine .If I die and go instantly into His presence that is also fine Unlike Hamlet I dont worry about sleeping perhaps to dream I just trust my Lord to do what is right for me