Are people in Heaven?

[Sanh]

Please anyone who can add to this to make it clearer....

 

1.  If you want clear biblical reference, try Luke 16:19-31.

 

¹⁹There was a certain rich man, which was clothed in purple and fine linen, and fared sumptuously every day:

 

The Rich Man and Lazarus

Luke Chapter 16 : 19

²⁰And there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, which was laid at his gate, full of sores,

²¹And desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man's table: moreover the dogs came and licked his sores.

²² And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried;

²³And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.

²⁴And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.

²⁵But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented.

²⁶And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence.

²⁷Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father's house:

²⁸For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment.

²⁹Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.

³⁰And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent.

³¹And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.

 

 

2.  If you want Godly things about the location of the spirit of the dead, go and come to Jesus today whom you do not see but can be spoken to in His own terms and ways of living. Only Jesus today can tell you the genuine truth about the dead.

Edited August 16, 2013 by Sanh

[Sculelos]

Remember that the parable of Lazerous was just a parable so it can't be taken as actual fact.

 

We know a few things about death and Resurrection.

 

1. God resurrected a few people immediately after Jesus death to be taken up to his throne-room (Including the thief on the cross).

2. Most are sleeping in the Earth.

3. Hell (Death) is not a place of constant torture but of no consciousness at all.

4. Most people who have died are still in Sheol (Hell) and thus are unconscious.

5. Apart from the 144,000 who were resurrected immediately after Jesus death there is also a great multitude waiting to be resurrected that will be resurrected when the seventh trumpet sounds in 2083. This will be about 22 Billion people that will join Jesus to join him to witness the final victory over death and Sin.    

Edited August 17, 2013 by Sculelos

[enoob57]

Remember that the parable of Lazerous was just a parable so it can't be taken as actual fact.

 

We know a few things about death and Resurrection.

 

1. God resurrected a few people immediately after Jesus death to be taken up to his throne-room (Including the thief on the cross).

2. Most are sleeping in the Earth.

3. Hell (Death) is not a place of constant torture but of no consciousness at all.

4. Most people who have died are still in Sheol (Hell) and thus are unconscious.

5. Apart from the 144,000 who were resurrected immediately after Jesus death there is also a great multitude waiting to be resurrected that will be resurrected when the seventh trumpet sounds in 2083. This will be about 22 Billion people that will join Jesus to join him to witness the final victory over death and Sin.    

You really should read this!

Luke 16:19-31                                 The Rich Man and Lazarus

19 "There was a certain rich man who was clothed in purple and fine linen and fared sumptuously every day. 

20 But there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, full of sores, who was laid at his gate,  21 desiring to be

fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man's table. Moreover the dogs came and licked his sores.

  22 So it was that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels to Abraham's bosom. The rich man also

died and was buried.  23 And being in torments in Hades, he lifted up his eyes and saw Abraham afar off,

and Lazarus in his bosom.

24 "Then he cried and said, 'Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus that he may dip the tip

of his finger in water and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.'  25 But Abraham said, 'Son,

remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things; but now he

is comforted and you are tormented.  26 And besides all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed,

so that those who want to pass from here to you cannot, nor can those from there pass to us.'

27 "Then he said, 'I beg you therefore, father, that you would send him to my father's house,  28 for I have

five brothers, that he may testify to them, lest they also come to this place of torment.'  29 Abraham said to

him, 'They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.'  30 And he said, 'No, father Abraham; but if

one goes to them from the dead, they will repent.'  31 But he said to him, 'If they do not hear Moses and the

prophets, neither will they be persuaded though one rise from the dead.'"

NKJV

Love, Steven

[Sanh]

Remember that the parable of Lazerous was just a parable so it can't be taken as actual fact.

 

We know a few things about death and Resurrection.

 

1. God resurrected a few people immediately after Jesus death to be taken up to his throne-room (Including the thief on the cross).

2. Most are sleeping in the Earth.

3. Hell (Death) is not a place of constant torture but of no consciousness at all.

4. Most people who have died are still in Sheol (Hell) and thus are unconscious.

5. Apart from the 144,000 who were resurrected immediately after Jesus death there is also a great multitude waiting to be resurrected that will be resurrected when the seventh trumpet sounds in 2083. This will be about 22 Billion people that will join Jesus to join him to witness the final victory over death and Sin.    

 

In the first place, who told you that Luke 16:19-31 was just a parable, were Abraham and Moses parable, too?  And the different conditions of the world where the rich man and Lazarus were brought by the angels and that of the world (our world today) where the family of the rich man was living, was that also a parable to you? Don't you think you are adding something (parable) to what is written in the bible?

 

Lastly, what were those identities of the rich man and that of Lazarus which were brought by the angels in hell and in Abraham bosom, how do you call those beings in hell and in Abraham bosum, parable?

 

And your knowledge about death and resurrection, where did you learn those things from and how reliable is your assessment about it?

Edited August 18, 2013 by Sanh

[franciskelsey]

 

Remember that the parable of Lazerous was just a parable so it can't be taken as actual fact.

 

We know a few things about death and Resurrection.

 

1. God resurrected a few people immediately after Jesus death to be taken up to his throne-room (Including the thief on the cross).

2. Most are sleeping in the Earth.

3. Hell (Death) is not a place of constant torture but of no consciousness at all.

4. Most people who have died are still in Sheol (Hell) and thus are unconscious.

5. Apart from the 144,000 who were resurrected immediately after Jesus death there is also a great multitude waiting to be resurrected that will be resurrected when the seventh trumpet sounds in 2083. This will be about 22 Billion people that will join Jesus to join him to witness the final victory over death and Sin. 

 

OOOO  K then. Other than the thief on the cross, what makes you believe in point #1?

Other that OT scripture in which some speak of your body being in the grave what scripture do you use for this? Also, PLEASE address scripture I gave in the last post of the last (1st page) page of this thread. (a click on the back button.)

And point #3 -- #4 -- and MOST OF ALL -- #5

 

Please do not keep us in wondering my friend, but it does appear you are getting some info from WAYYY outside of scripture my friend.

 

 God bless

 

[GoldenEagle]

Remember that the parable of Lazerous was just a parable so it can't be taken as actual fact.

 

We know a few things about death and Resurrection.

<snip>

 

3. Hell (Death) is not a place of constant torture but of no consciousness at all.

4. Most people who have died are still in Sheol (Hell) and thus are unconscious.

 

I would like to specifically address #3 and #4. Where do you find Biblical backing that Hell is not a place of constant torture in Scripture and instead a place of no sonciousness at all? I think Scripture would disagree with you.

 

What is Hell? How is Hell described in the Bible?

Hell – A place of weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Luke 13:18

There will be weeping and gnashing of teeth, when you see Abraham and Isaac and Jacob and all the prophets in the kingdom of God, and yourselves thrust out.

Hell – It will be a furnace of fire with wailing and gnashing of teeth.

Matt. 13:40-43

⁴⁰ Therefore as the tares are gathered and burned in the fire, so it will be at the end of this age. ⁴¹ The Son of Man will send out His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all things that offend, and those who practice lawlessness, ⁴² and will cast them into the furnace of fire. There will be wailing and gnashing of teeth. ⁴³ Then the righteous will shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. He who has ears to hear, let him hear!

Hell – a place of darkness, weeping, and gnashing of teeth. (Matt. 22:11-13; Matt. 25:29-30)

Matt. 22:11-13

¹¹ “But when the king came in to see the guests, he saw a man there who did not have on a wedding garment. ¹² So he said to him, ‘Friend, how did you come in here without a wedding garment?’ And he was speechless. ¹³ Then the king said to the servants, ‘Bind him hand and foot, take him away, and^[a] cast him into outer darkness; there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.’

Matt. 25:29-30

²⁹ ‘For to everyone who has, more will be given, and he will have abundance; but from him who does not have, even what he has will be taken away. ³⁰ And cast the unprofitable servant into the outer darkness. There will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.’

Hell - The punishment will be everlasting separation from the presence of God. (2 Thess. 1:9)

2 Thess. 1:9

These shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power…

Hell – a place where people will be burned with fire and brimstone.

Rev. 21:8

But the cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.”

Hell - Those who receive the Mark of the Beast (and reject Christ) will be tormented forever and will have no rest.

Rev. 14:11

And the smoke of their torment ascends forever and ever; and they have no rest day or night, who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name.”

Hell – Again there will be torments in Hell (Hades – vs. 23). There will be no satisfaction as people will be constantly thirsty and tormented by the flame. (vs. 24) There will be no going to and from the good part of eternity to the bad. (vs. 26)

Luke 16:19-31

The Rich Man and Lazarus

¹⁹ “There was a certain rich man who was clothed in purple and fine linen and fared sumptuously every day. ²⁰ But there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, full of sores, who was laid at his gate, ²¹ desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell^[d] from the rich man’s table. Moreover the dogs came and licked his sores. ²² So it was that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels to Abraham’s bosom. The rich man also died and was buried. ²³ And being in torments in Hades, he lifted up his eyes and saw Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.

²⁴ “Then he cried and said, ‘Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus that he may dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.’ ²⁵ But Abraham said, ‘Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things; but now he is comforted and you are tormented. ²⁶ And besides all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed, so that those who want to pass from here to you cannot, nor can those from there pass to us.’

²⁷ “Then he said, ‘I beg you therefore, father, that you would send him to my father’s house, ²⁸ for I have five brothers, that he may testify to them, lest they also come to this place of torment.’ ²⁹ Abraham said to him, ‘They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.’ ³⁰ And he said, ‘No, father Abraham; but if one goes to them from the dead, they will repent.’ ³¹ But he said to him, ‘If they do not hear Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded though one rise from the dead.’”

That is the bad news... Yet there is hope...

 

[GoldenEagle]

Yet there is hope… If we confess with our mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in our heart that God has raised Him from the dead we will be saved. (v. 9) Whoever calls on the name of the Lord will be saved. (v. 13)

Rom. 10:8-13
⁸ But what does it say? “The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart”^[e] (that is, the word of faith which we preach): ⁹ that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. ¹⁰ For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. ¹¹ For the Scripture says, “Whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame.”^{[f] 12} For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek, for the same Lord over all is rich to all who call upon Him. ¹³ For “whoever calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved.”^[g]

God bless,
GE
 

[matt]

it amazes me how people can actually put a year to the date that things will happen 2083 etc , who cares... love god love your neighbour, avoid sin, tell the truth and be led by the spirit and he wont deny you.

[Guest DRS81]

A human being is made up of three different (roles). Body/Spirit/Soul. After we die, our spirit and souls will either be in a temporary heaven or hell until judgment day. After judgment day, the believers body will be resurrected into our souls/spirits. Once this occurs, we will have new resurrected bodies for eternity and live with God on the New Earth. At least that's what I got from scripture. So yes, whoever was a born again Christian and has already died is in a temporary heaven right now with the Lord Jesus.

[Sculelos]

Yet there is hope… If we confess with our mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in our heart that God has raised Him from the dead we will be saved. (v. 9) Whoever calls on the name of the Lord will be saved. (v. 13)

Rom. 10:8-13

⁸ But what does it say? “The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart”^[e] (that is, the word of faith which we preach): ⁹ that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. ¹⁰ For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. ¹¹ For the Scripture says, “Whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame.”^{[f] 12} For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek, for the same Lord over all is rich to all who call upon Him. ¹³ For “whoever calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved.”^[g]

God bless,

GE

 

Hell is a place of Fire and Brimstone but hell is also a place of Unconsciousness where the body's of the transgressors do not decay.

 

Hell itself will die but the Smoke of the Torment (Testing) will be seen for all eternity where the actions done by the transgressors are studies for all eternity so that people will never want to commit any evil acts ever again.

 

Revelations 20:21

12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire. 

1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.

 

The Greek and Hebrew words of Forever only mean until Heaven and Earth pass away as seen in this verse.

 

Leviticus 25:44-46

As for your male and female slaves whom you may have: you may buy male and female slaves from among the nations that are around you. You may also buy from among the strangers who sojourn with you and their clans that are with you, who have been born in your land, and they may be your property. You may bequeath them to your sons after you to inherit as a possession forever. You may make slaves of them, but over your brothers the people of Israel you shall not rule, one over another ruthlessly.