Gay Christians who choose celibacy.....

[MorningGlory]

My take on the article is that the people involved recognize that homosexual relations are sinful.  They are saying that same sex attraction is not sinful, as they don't believe they can help it.  It would be no differen't than how a heterosexual might be attracted to women other than their wife, but they know it would be a sin to commit adultery, so they don't. 

 

This is a tough question.  We know that lust is a sin, and you can lust without acting on it.  I would imagine that same sex lust would certainly be a sin, but the question is, can someone help the way they feel?  The Bible tells us to take captive our thoughts, so to me, that would mean when a lustful desire comes to mind, we immediately recognize it, and reject it. 

 

This all comes down to whether or not these homosexuals have turned their life over to Christ, and are abstaining from fornication in obedience to God?  If they are, and they are allowing God to take away their sinful lusts, I would say they can be a Christian? 

 

 

Right, Butero, they absolutely can because they are repentenant and, as we know, God will listen to anyone who wants to be saved. 

[MorningGlory]

also Addicts remain addicts. i.e. Alcoholism there is no such thing as a former alcoholic they are always going to be alcoholic they have to adapt strategies in their lifestyles to avoid the temptation of Alcohol

 

 

That's actually a good point, W.R.  I hadn't thought of it myself but I believe God does accept a repentenant alcoholic who is sincere in his/her effort to remain sober.  Why would a celibate homosexual be any different in God's eyes? 

[Littlelambseativy]

Christians who call themselves homosexual Christians or those who were homosexual and became Christians but may still look at another as they used to but do not practice the act, if they asked to be forgiven of their sin they are under the blood just as any of us. Though our sin may be envy, jealousy, anger, hatred, lust after a woman or man etc. we are under the blood if we have accepted Jesus as our Saviour and Lord and have asked for our sin to be forgiven. If they are under the blood they are sinners saved by grace just as we are. Do we still sin daily? Yes. Do they? Yes. Do we all ask to be forgiven for our sin daily? We should as soon as we know we have committed the sin. 

We are told to forgive our brother not seven times but seventy times seven - Do you not think God does the same for us or them? I pray that He does for He said that we just need to ask and He is just to hear and answer our prayer.

[Guest shiloh357]

[quoute]I don't think these people have a desire to be gay or want to be gay, and I don't think they are saying it is okay to desire to have gay sex.

[Guest shiloh357]

 

My take on the article is that the people involved recognize that homosexual relations are sinful.  They are saying that same sex attraction is not sinful, as they don't believe they can help it.  It would be no differen't than how a heterosexual might be attracted to women other than their wife, but they know it would be a sin to commit adultery, so they don't. 

 

This is a tough question.  We know that lust is a sin, and you can lust without acting on it.  I would imagine that same sex lust would certainly be a sin, but the question is, can someone help the way they feel?  The Bible tells us to take captive our thoughts, so to me, that would mean when a lustful desire comes to mind, we immediately recognize it, and reject it. 

 

This all comes down to whether or not these homosexuals have turned their life over to Christ, and are abstaining from fornication in obedience to God?  If they are, and they are allowing God to take away their sinful lusts, I would say they can be a Christian? 

 

 

Right, Butero, they absolutely can because they are repentenant and, as we know, God will listen to anyone who wants to be saved. 

 

 

 

There is aboslutely nothing in that article that intimates that they are repentant.  And why would they  want to be saved since they think  they are already Christians?

[Gerioke]

What would be the messenger of satan?

[Gandalf]

 

 

 

Because they think they are already Christians. 

 

 

If you are not married, don't have sex.  It's as simple as that.  Sex outside God's plan is sin.   I have never had sex. and have never been married.  My wholeness and completeness is not found in another human being.  It is found in Jesus and He is the reason I can abstain from sexual relations with a woman until I am married. If I never get married, I am no less for it. I found the power to sexual pure and I speak from years of experience.  

 

 

I have repeatedly stated that there is a difference between a homosexual that struggles with temptation because He has been truly born again and understands that even the very desire to be gay is a sin and a homosexual who sees nothing wrong with being gay and doesn't believe it is a sin to have those desires.   It is not a sin to be tempted.  It is a sin to entertain and embrace what you are being tempted to do, even if you don't act on it.     Those who truly struggle with hommosexuality struggle with the desire.  The act is born out of the desire, so it is in the heart that the true battle against homosexuality is waged.   If they are not truly saved then they will not engage in that struggle.  Trying to live in the homosexual lifestyle without being sexually active is like being on a diet, but wanting to hang out at the donut shop.

 

 

Nope.  Sexual purity begins in the heart.  Since they don't see homosexual desires to be sinful, the notion that they are sexual pure is wrong.   Furthermore it is irrational to claim that it is wrong to have gay sex while at the same time arguing that the desire for gay sex is not in and of itself sinful.  The desire that precipates the act, that gives birth to the act is as sinful as the act itself.   As long as they harbor and entertain the desire, their goal to be celibate will fail.

 

 

I don't think these people have a desire to be gay or want to be gay, and I don't think they are saying it is okay to desire to have gay sex. What makes you think that they do? Based on your words I do not think you understand where these people are coming from. I think what they are saying is that to have homosexual temptations by themselves is not sinful, but to act out on them is. They cannot choose to magically never have a homosexual temptation again, just as you or I cannot magically decide that we will never have the temptation to look at a women again until we're married - at least I've never met anyone who could. Temptation will come, it is what you do with that temptation that determines whether or not you sin, and they choose to accept that they will have these homosexual temptations but they will not act on them, that is their stance from what I can tell. 

 

These people are outside of marriage, and because of that they are abstaining from sex. You also say that it is okay to not be married and never get married, so I'm having a hard time understanding your problem with celibacy. Sure you can bring up all this historical connotation of celibacy and how it is a man-made rule etc, but I really don't think that is relevant in this case. The etymology of a word can supply subtle (or not so subtle) connotation to a word but it does not act as a definition and modern usage can be divorced of such connotation. So if the only way these people can minimize their temptation to sin is to take a vow of celibacy, how is that act worthless? 

 

Perhaps part of the problem has to do with the notion that we can choose to be gay or straight (We've discussed this before a long time ago and you stated then that it was a choice), and if we could change our sexual orientation on the fly then of course if homosexuality is a sin then simply chose to be straight and problem solved. However it doesn't appear to be a choice, everyone is different, but for the vast majority of people we cannot choose or change our sexual orientation. In that light celibacy is the clear logical solution if our axiom is homosexuality is a sin - either that or these people are doomed to Hell for all eternity for something literally outside their control. I can see how differences in our ideas of how flexible one's sexual orientation is can bring about different conclusions about these people. But still, I have a feeling that there is more to it than that. 

 

Wise words. Thanks!

[Guest]

call it what ever you want fresno there are some diseases that are genetic you can observe this if you want. You don't have to take my word for it.

 

~

 

Sin

 

For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; Romans 3:23

 

Is The Disease

 

Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust. 2 Peter 1:4

 

And Saying God Made Me

 

And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ: Ephesians 3:9

 

So I Do It (His Genes Made Me Do It)

 

Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man: But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed. Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death. James 1:13-15

 

Will Not Cut It With Any Rational Observant Man Wouldn't You Say?

 

Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God. For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now. Romans 8:21-22

[Gerioke]

So if a gay man cannot be forgiven because he is still tempted, then a depressed person cannot be saved if he is still depressed? Is this the reasoning Shilo is using? 

[enoob57]

So if a gay man cannot be forgiven because he is still tempted, then a depressed person cannot be saved if he is still depressed? Is this the reasoning Shilo is using? 

 

Friend what you are not perceiving is a fact of regeneration... because you do no understand The Scriptures!

If you have been given repentance by God- you will see yourself as zero value because of what you have been

filled with is of no value to God -sin-...

That is why God must regenerate you into a new being

2 Co 5:17-21

17 Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; old things have passed away; behold, all things have

become new. 18 Now all things are of God, who has reconciled us to Himself through Jesus Christ, and has

given us the ministry of reconciliation, 19 that is, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not

imputing their trespasses to them, and has committed to us the word of reconciliation.

20 Now then, we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God were pleading through us: we implore you on

Christ's behalf, be reconciled to God. 21 For He made Him who knew no sin to be sin for us, that we might

become the righteousness of God in Him.

NKJV

There are many peoples trying to get to God in their own way... but it cannot work because God has said

Jn 14:6

6 Jesus said to him, "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me.

NKJV

Because God Speaks and it 'IS' all else is fodder for the rot...  Love, Steven