not guilty

[JDavis]

 

He was. He had a gun! Regardless, he was returning to his car, like the police asked him to do, when Trayvon assaulted him and placed his life in danger. Had Trayvon not sucker punched Zimmerman and then assaulted him with the intent of causing great bodily harm and also of taking his gun, Trayvon would still be alive.

 

 

 

Ypu appear to reserve none of your rancor for where it rightly belongs. Not sure why though.

 

 

For most of us, not killing someone is a goal we live by.  I guess others are different

 

We do not if he was sucker punched or what happened, all we have is the word of one party.   you take it for gospel ,I see it a bit differently.

 

What rancor should I have for a dead teenager?  What would be the point?

 

I think there is much blame on both sides, this is where you and I differ.  You seem to view Zimmerman as some sort of a hero, I do not and never will. 

[JDavis]

 

 

 

 

 

I am as well,  JDavis.  I believe Zimmerman, while not guilty of murder, is guilty of provoking a confrontation.  Even if the Martin kid was being a typical mouthy teenager he didn't deserve to die for it.  Lives have been devastated and one lost forever here.  But the jury has spoken and we have to respect their verdict.

 

Zimmerman was jumped and beaten by the kid.  How, exactly, does that translate into provoking a confrontation?  If Zimmerman had been black, and the kid killed was white or Hispanic, the case never would have gone to trial and he probably wouldn't have been charged at all. So your concept of "justice" and my concept of justice are not the same.  You are advocating that an innocent man be held responsible and punished for something that he didn't do.  Would that work for you, if the shoe were on your foot?

 

 

I would say that getting out of your car and following Martin could be construed as provoking a confrontation.

 

Not necessarily.  Mr. Zimmerman was the neighborhood watchman at the time, and it was reported there were alot of break ins in the neighborhood.  It was also reported to 911 dispatcher by Mr. Zimmerman  that Martin was acting suspicious. I think Mr. Zimmerman was only trying to prevent another possible break-in in the community.  It was also reported that the  dispatcher told Mr. Zimmerman after the call that Mr. Zimmerman did not have to follow Martin.  Mr. Zimmerman, according to my understanding and his testimony was headed back to his car when Martin jumped him from behind and pinned him down.  Had Martin not done this, he would still be alive more.

 

 

actually, Mr Zimmerman was not a neighborhood watchman officially, he was a self-appointed neighborhood watchman.   I have been part of an official, police approved neighborhood watch and the Golden Rule of neighborhood watchmen is "you do not carry".      The second rule that you are taught is "do not pursue".  Had Mr Zimmerman been part of an actual neighborhood watch program he would have known these two rules.

 

we do not know if Martin jumped him or not, that is what Zimmerman says happened.

 

And you are correct, had Martin not fought with Zimmerman he would still be alive.  And just as true is that had Zimmerman not left his car, Martin would still be alive.

 

Nope, dead wrong. He was appointed the neighborhood watchman by the neighborhood watch committe after offering to do so. You should really not get your facts from the popular media. They have so skewed this story Politically that it is no longer anywhere near the truth.

 

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2013/06/25/zimmerman-trial-trayvon-neighborhood-watch/2455163/

 

 

 

Zimmerman was in charge of recruiting block captains for a neighborhood watch program and, after having been asked, was also part of a group to enforce parking rules in his community.

The president of the homeowners association for the community where the shooting took place testified that he didn't think a neighborhood watch program was needed and that Zimmerman was in charge of the community's program from the very beginning.

Donald O'Brien stressed that the homeowners association had nothing to do with the neighborhood watch program but that he did attend a meeting to start it. Residents were told to "stay away" from suspicious people and call police, O'Brien said.

He said he once text messaged Zimmerman with praises for a group of workers who followed a burglar. Their actions led to the arrest of a young black man, who was charged with burglaries in the neighborhood, O'Brien said.

 

 

 

thank you for proving my point for me.  There was no real neighborhood watch program, even the HOA didn't want it.  There was Zimmerman and his merry men.  They didn't have the support and training from the police, he was as I said a self-appointed neighborhood watchman.  

 

It is ironic that he went against the wishes of the HOA and the HOA still had to pay out a million bucks to Martin's family. 

[JDavis]

 

 

 

It is suspicious to be standing on someone's property and not on the sidewalk. It is suspicious to encircle someone sitting in his car. Obviously the suspicion was borne out as right, because instead of high-tailing it home, which would be common sense, Trayvon doubled back and tried to kill George.

 

Pretty good instincts, there, for George, which is why he did call the police.

 

 

We don't know if they were good instincts or not, all we know is that Martin didn't like be followed by some middle aged man.  

 

Funny that you say Martin didn't use common sense but you seem to think that Zimmerman did. 

 

If either one of them had used common sense there would be no dead teenager.   But as it is neither of them did and as a result one is dead and one has to live with it for the rest of his life.

 

Does not really seem like a good ending to me.  How people can look at this and see a happy ending is beyond me. 

[other one]

 

 

He was. He had a gun! Regardless, he was returning to his car, like the police asked him to do, when Trayvon assaulted him and placed his life in danger. Had Trayvon not sucker punched Zimmerman and then assaulted him with the intent of causing great bodily harm and also of taking his gun, Trayvon would still be alive.

 

 

 

Ypu appear to reserve none of your rancor for where it rightly belongs. Not sure why though.

 

 

For most of us, not killing someone is a goal we live by.  I guess others are different

 

We do not if he was sucker punched or what happened, all we have is the word of one party.   you take it for gospel ,I see it a bit differently.

 

What rancor should I have for a dead teenager?  What would be the point?

 

I think there is much blame on both sides, this is where you and I differ.  You seem to view Zimmerman as some sort of a hero, I do not and never will. 

 

do you really think that George should have been put in prison for 30 years?

[other one]

 

 

 

 

It is suspicious to be standing on someone's property and not on the sidewalk. It is suspicious to encircle someone sitting in his car. Obviously the suspicion was borne out as right, because instead of high-tailing it home, which would be common sense, Trayvon doubled back and tried to kill George.

 

Pretty good instincts, there, for George, which is why he did call the police.

 

 

We don't know if they were good instincts or not, all we know is that Martin didn't like be followed by some middle aged man.  

 

Funny that you say Martin didn't use common sense but you seem to think that Zimmerman did. 

 

If either one of them had used common sense there would be no dead teenager.   But as it is neither of them did and as a result one is dead and one has to live with it for the rest of his life.

 

Does not really seem like a good ending to me.  How people can look at this and see a happy ending is beyond me. 

 

who is saying this was a happy ending?  justice is seldom a happy ending.

[Matthitjah]

 

 

He was. He had a gun! Regardless, he was returning to his car, like the police asked him to do, when Trayvon assaulted him and placed his life in danger. Had Trayvon not sucker punched Zimmerman and then assaulted him with the intent of causing great bodily harm and also of taking his gun, Trayvon would still be alive.

 

 

 

Ypu appear to reserve none of your rancor for where it rightly belongs. Not sure why though.

 

 

For most of us, not killing someone is a goal we live by.  I guess others are different

 

We do not if he was sucker punched or what happened, all we have is the word of one party.   you take it for gospel ,I see it a bit differently.

 

What rancor should I have for a dead teenager?  What would be the point?

 

I think there is much blame on both sides, this is where you and I differ.  You seem to view Zimmerman as some sort of a hero, I do not and never will. 

 

I never metioned that he was a hero. I also grieve for the loss of a young mans life, needlessly. Where we do differ is that one of us is looking at the facts and the other is reacting in a purely emotional state.

 

We have a Juror who sat through the trial and saw all of the facts openly stating that Trayvon sucker punched Zimmerman. You have openly stated that Zimmerman should have just taken his beating because I suppose that you feel he deserved it, even if it led to his death, which it likely might have had Trayvon gotten ahold of his gun.

 

I stand on the firm ground that Zimmerman had every right to be there and every right to defend himself and so too does the rule of Law.

[Matthitjah]

 

 

 

 

 

 

I am as well,  JDavis.  I believe Zimmerman, while not guilty of murder, is guilty of provoking a confrontation.  Even if the Martin kid was being a typical mouthy teenager he didn't deserve to die for it.  Lives have been devastated and one lost forever here.  But the jury has spoken and we have to respect their verdict.

 

Zimmerman was jumped and beaten by the kid.  How, exactly, does that translate into provoking a confrontation?  If Zimmerman had been black, and the kid killed was white or Hispanic, the case never would have gone to trial and he probably wouldn't have been charged at all. So your concept of "justice" and my concept of justice are not the same.  You are advocating that an innocent man be held responsible and punished for something that he didn't do.  Would that work for you, if the shoe were on your foot?

 

 

I would say that getting out of your car and following Martin could be construed as provoking a confrontation.

 

Not necessarily.  Mr. Zimmerman was the neighborhood watchman at the time, and it was reported there were alot of break ins in the neighborhood.  It was also reported to 911 dispatcher by Mr. Zimmerman  that Martin was acting suspicious. I think Mr. Zimmerman was only trying to prevent another possible break-in in the community.  It was also reported that the  dispatcher told Mr. Zimmerman after the call that Mr. Zimmerman did not have to follow Martin.  Mr. Zimmerman, according to my understanding and his testimony was headed back to his car when Martin jumped him from behind and pinned him down.  Had Martin not done this, he would still be alive more.

 

 

actually, Mr Zimmerman was not a neighborhood watchman officially, he was a self-appointed neighborhood watchman.   I have been part of an official, police approved neighborhood watch and the Golden Rule of neighborhood watchmen is "you do not carry".      The second rule that you are taught is "do not pursue".  Had Mr Zimmerman been part of an actual neighborhood watch program he would have known these two rules.

 

we do not know if Martin jumped him or not, that is what Zimmerman says happened.

 

And you are correct, had Martin not fought with Zimmerman he would still be alive.  And just as true is that had Zimmerman not left his car, Martin would still be alive.

 

Nope, dead wrong. He was appointed the neighborhood watchman by the neighborhood watch committe after offering to do so. You should really not get your facts from the popular media. They have so skewed this story Politically that it is no longer anywhere near the truth.

 

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2013/06/25/zimmerman-trial-trayvon-neighborhood-watch/2455163/

 

 

 

Zimmerman was in charge of recruiting block captains for a neighborhood watch program and, after having been asked, was also part of a group to enforce parking rules in his community.

The president of the homeowners association for the community where the shooting took place testified that he didn't think a neighborhood watch program was needed and that Zimmerman was in charge of the community's program from the very beginning.

Donald O'Brien stressed that the homeowners association had nothing to do with the neighborhood watch program but that he did attend a meeting to start it. Residents were told to "stay away" from suspicious people and call police, O'Brien said.

He said he once text messaged Zimmerman with praises for a group of workers who followed a burglar. Their actions led to the arrest of a young black man, who was charged with burglaries in the neighborhood, O'Brien said.

 

 

 

thank you for proving my point for me.  There was no real neighborhood watch program, even the HOA didn't want it.  There was Zimmerman and his merry men.  They didn't have the support and training from the police, he was as I said a self-appointed neighborhood watchman.  

 

It is ironic that he went against the wishes of the HOA and the HOA still had to pay out a million bucks to Martin's family. 

 

No, he did not go against the wishes of the HOA, they had no say in forming the watch. They couldn't have stopped it if they wanted to. it was formed by a committee ot form such as it is in many city's. The facts are clear. In fact, the HOA President had lauded Zimmerman prior for the decrease in the crime rate of the neighborhood as it had previously been a mess with many break-ins.

 

Prior to living in the County in which I currently live in MD I lived in another county that is now a sancturay county for illegals. n the particular neighborhoiod where I lived the crime rate was rising with break-ins and even an instance of a Molotov cocktail being thrown into a tractor trailer about 100 yards from my home. I was the one who went out and confronted the teens who had done it, who consequently were watching it burn. According to you I should have ignored the instance. I even called the police and when they got close the youths took off. I was instrumental in knocking on nearby doors and evacuating not only my family but many others prior to help arriving. The Diesal tanks were ablaze. That thing was a bomb waiting to go off. Thankfully it didn't.

 

After that incident a county policeman came to speak at our HOA meeting and first he suggessted, off the record, that we all move or buy a gun and instruct family members in using it as he had done because the nearest district station was in the next town past the nearest town some 15 miles away at that time. Then he sugggested that we start a Neighborhood Watch Program, GASP! We didn't need the HOA's permission either, just some interested neighbors and he suggested some Police instruction but it wasn't neccesary. Maybe it is now, but it wasn't then. It appears that the Law's differ according to State and even local statue so please stop demagoging the issue.

[JDavis]

 

 

 

He was. He had a gun! Regardless, he was returning to his car, like the police asked him to do, when Trayvon assaulted him and placed his life in danger. Had Trayvon not sucker punched Zimmerman and then assaulted him with the intent of causing great bodily harm and also of taking his gun, Trayvon would still be alive.

 

 

 

Ypu appear to reserve none of your rancor for where it rightly belongs. Not sure why though.

 

 

For most of us, not killing someone is a goal we live by.  I guess others are different

 

We do not if he was sucker punched or what happened, all we have is the word of one party.   you take it for gospel ,I see it a bit differently.

 

What rancor should I have for a dead teenager?  What would be the point?

 

I think there is much blame on both sides, this is where you and I differ.  You seem to view Zimmerman as some sort of a hero, I do not and never will. 

 

do you really think that George should have been put in prison for 30 years?

 

 

you know, I have said on this thread alone at least 5 or more times I agree with the verdict based on the evidence that was available.  I am not sure why I have to repeat myself so often.

 

and as I said, being legally not guilty is not the same as being morally innocent.  In my own personal opinion Zimmerman is just as at fault as Martin was.    But only one of them is dead

[Matthitjah]

 

 

 

 

He was. He had a gun! Regardless, he was returning to his car, like the police asked him to do, when Trayvon assaulted him and placed his life in danger. Had Trayvon not sucker punched Zimmerman and then assaulted him with the intent of causing great bodily harm and also of taking his gun, Trayvon would still be alive.

 

 

 

Ypu appear to reserve none of your rancor for where it rightly belongs. Not sure why though.

 

 

For most of us, not killing someone is a goal we live by.  I guess others are different

 

We do not if he was sucker punched or what happened, all we have is the word of one party.   you take it for gospel ,I see it a bit differently.

 

What rancor should I have for a dead teenager?  What would be the point?

 

I think there is much blame on both sides, this is where you and I differ.  You seem to view Zimmerman as some sort of a hero, I do not and never will. 

 

do you really think that George should have been put in prison for 30 years?

 

 

you know, I have said on this thread alone at least 5 or more times I agree with the verdict based on the evidence that was available.  I am not sure why I have to repeat myself so often.

 

and as I said, being legally not guilty is not the same as being morally innocent.  In my own personal opinion Zimmerman is just as at fault as Martin was.    But only one of them is dead

 

So ruining his life and openly maligning and judging his heart intent is okay then? Please cite scriptural support for such a stance.

[JDavis]

 

 

 

He was. He had a gun! Regardless, he was returning to his car, like the police asked him to do, when Trayvon assaulted him and placed his life in danger. Had Trayvon not sucker punched Zimmerman and then assaulted him with the intent of causing great bodily harm and also of taking his gun, Trayvon would still be alive.

 

 

 

Ypu appear to reserve none of your rancor for where it rightly belongs. Not sure why though.

 

 

For most of us, not killing someone is a goal we live by.  I guess others are different

 

We do not if he was sucker punched or what happened, all we have is the word of one party.   you take it for gospel ,I see it a bit differently.

 

What rancor should I have for a dead teenager?  What would be the point?

 

I think there is much blame on both sides, this is where you and I differ.  You seem to view Zimmerman as some sort of a hero, I do not and never will. 

 

I never metioned that he was a hero. I also grieve for the loss of a young mans life, needlessly. Where we do differ is that one of us is looking at the facts and the other is reacting in a purely emotional state.

 

We have a Juror who sat through the trial and saw all of the facts openly stating that Trayvon sucker punched Zimmerman. You have openly stated that Zimmerman should have just taken his beating because I suppose that you feel he deserved it, even if it led to his death, which it likely might have had Trayvon gotten ahold of his gun.

 

I stand on the firm ground that Zimmerman had every right to be there and every right to defend himself and so too does the rule of Law.

 

 

I have stated no such thing, are we back to you lying about me again?  really? 

 

What I have openly stated many times is that if Zimmerman was not able to handle the situation he should not have put himself in that situation.  I do not consider killing another human as "handling" the situation. 

 

if you are going to get out of your car and follow someone you think is a criminal, you better be able to handle yourself without the need to kill someone.   A 29 year old wannabe cop should be able to handle a 17 year old wannabe gangsta without shooting him.