Why no unity?

[firestormx]

I have been on outreach's and at these outreach's to share the gospel, has been a group of people from varying denominations, in agreement on one thing, that Jesus is Lord and Savior and the only way to God is Jesus, and that all people need Jesus. We were in unity, working together.  I totally enjoyed our services and prayer time before going out each day. Some were Baptist and others were Charismatic. One person asked for prayer and the charismatics were right there laying on hands while the Baptists were praying for the person with their heads bowed, all in agreement in Jesus name.  

 

One day, I was assigned to go door to door with a Calvinist pastor. In between houses, we discussed Calvinism. He was trying to understand why I was not a Calvinist. When we got to the next door, we were in unity, sharing the gospel. At the end of the time, we were very good friends, and both of us really enjoyed going door to door sharing about Jesus, and we both enjoyed our theological discussion even though we saw things differently it was a good and fun time of discussion.  

 

In the first century, many of the biblical stories are around sharing the gospel, and sharing the gospel, especially with the Jewish community is often very similar to the book of Acts in many ways.

 

I used to read scripture and desire to experience what they experienced in the first century. I found it on the streets with other Christians of differing denominations, sharing the gospel.   

Thanks for sharing

[JDavis]

 

 

1. If you don't understand that there are different levels of revelation on a biblical subject, and there being different levels of revelation has nothing to do with the heart of the core beliefs or unity then there is nothing for us to discuss.

 

 

 

Could you explain this a bit more?  what does different levels of revelation mean? 

[firestormx]

 

 

 

1. If you don't understand that there are different levels of revelation on a biblical subject, and there being different levels of revelation has nothing to do with the heart of the core beliefs or unity then there is nothing for us to discuss.

 

 

 

Could you explain this a bit more?  what does different levels of revelation mean? 

 

How's this example? Everyone who is following Jesus as their Lord and Savior, are at different places in that journey. Does that help?

 

I have spent countless days and weeks and years studying, fasting, praying and seeking Jesus. Therefore, I have a much deeper level of understanding of scripture, than when I was first saved. I study the same subject more than once, and each time I get a better understanding. Line upon line, precept upon precept. Now think about that verse. It says Line upon Line. Let's put it this way for the sake of our topic. Line 1 upon line 2. Precept 1 upon precept 2. You will not get the full revelation of Line 2 or Line 3, or line 4, if you first don't get down Line 1. It won't do you much good to try to go out and preach the message of salvation in Jesus alone, if you don't understand salvation in Jesus alone.

 

Does that help you understand what I mean.

[OneLight]

We will never be 100% unified.  Even Paul spoke about this in 1 Corinthians 13:9-10

 

For we know in part and we prophesy in part. But when that which is perfect has come, then that which is in part will be done away.

 

and again in verse 12

 

For now we see in a mirror, dimly, but then face to face. Now I know in part, but then I shall know just as I also am known.

 

This is why love is the greatest of all, for without this love, the divisions would be so large nobody would recognize Christianity.  We will be in one accord when we are with Christ.  Until then, we only will be so in part.

[firestormx]

Please be patient with me until the end of this post, before you make a judgment about what I am trying to say.

 

 

1 Corinthians 1:10

Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment.

 

1 Corinthians 12:25

25 That there should be no schism in the body; but that the members should have the same care one for another.

 

Ephesians 4:3-4

3 Endeavoring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace. 4 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling; 5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism.

 

2 Corinthians 13:11

Finally, brethren, farewell. Be perfect, be of good comfort, be of one mind, live in peace; and the God of love and peace shall be with you.

 

Acts 4:32

And the multitude of them that believed were of one heart and of one soul: neither said any of them that aught of the things which he possessed was his own; but they had all things common.

 

Philippians 1:27

Only let your conversation be as it becometh the gospel of Christ: that whether I come and see you, or else be absent, I may hear of your affairs, that ye stand fast in one spirit, with one mind striving together for the faith of the gospel;

 

Acts 1:14

These all continued with one accord in prayer and supplication, with the women, and Mary the mother of Jesus, and with his brethren.

 

1 Peter 3:8

Finally, be ye all of one mind, having compassion one of another, love as brethren, be pitiful, be courteous:

 

This is a sample of what the bible has to say about us the believers being of one mind or unified. So everyone is on the same page let me ask this. Does being of one mind include having 500 different doctrines on every subject? Is Jesus Christ Double-minded? If he is the head, and we are the body, then having 500 different doctrines on every subject is not letting Christ be the head. But double-minded or triple-minded.

 

What does the bible say about being double-minded?

 

James 1:8

A double minded man is unstable in all his ways.

 

 

So let me but it this way. How many doctrines of Jesus Christ are there truly? When we stand before God, how many doctrines of Christ will we be held to? See, that's the way I am looking at this. Everyone keeps saying that everyone is allowed to have their own opinion on every piece of doctrine there is and that's ok. But that means there is more than 1 doctrine of Jesus Christ or a lot of people are in error. If there is only 1 doctrine of Jesus Christ, then, what is it? Why are we not all believing it? Here it is, this is the question I have been leading to this entire post. The bible says in the verses above we ( the body of Christ ) are to be of one mind ( The mind of Christ ). How can we do that and not be one or unified?

[Guest ninhao]

So let me but it this way. How many doctrines of Jesus Christ are there truly? When we stand before God, how many doctrines of Christ will we be held to? See, that's the way I am looking at this. Everyone keeps saying that everyone is allowed to have their own opinion on every piece of doctrine there is and that's ok. But that means there is more than 1 doctrine of Jesus Christ or a lot of people are in error. If there is only 1 doctrine of Jesus Christ, then, what is it? Why are we not all believing it? Here it is, this is the question I have been leading to this entire post. The bible says in the verses above we ( the body of Christ ) are to be of one mind ( The mind of Christ ). How can we do that and not be one or unified?

 

There is only one truth in every doctrine yes ; however the mind of Christ can be simplified in the 2 greatest commandments as we know.

A friend recently mentioned to me in the chat room that it is interesting how we constantly search the scriptures for meaning and that this is a good thing. It keeps us seeking God.

Brother Firestormx I think you are concerned a lot by this but have confidence that the Body of Christ is known for it's intrinsic love and not by it's perfect doctrine at this time imo. Be patient.

[firestormx]

 

So let me but it this way. How many doctrines of Jesus Christ are there truly? When we stand before God, how many doctrines of Christ will we be held to? See, that's the way I am looking at this. Everyone keeps saying that everyone is allowed to have their own opinion on every piece of doctrine there is and that's ok. But that means there is more than 1 doctrine of Jesus Christ or a lot of people are in error. If there is only 1 doctrine of Jesus Christ, then, what is it? Why are we not all believing it? Here it is, this is the question I have been leading to this entire post. The bible says in the verses above we ( the body of Christ ) are to be of one mind ( The mind of Christ ). How can we do that and not be one or unified?

 

There is only one truth in every doctrine yes ; however the mind of Christ can be simplified in the 2 greatest commandments as we know.

A friend recently mentioned to me in the chat room that it is interesting how we constantly search the scriptures for meaning and that this is a good thing. It keeps us seeking God.

Brother Firestormx I think you are concerned a lot by this but have confidence that the Body of Christ is known for it's intrinsic love and not by it's perfect doctrine at this time imo. Be patient.

 

Thanks for taking the time to encouraging me. Your right this does concern me a lot. Thanks for taking the time to post.

[~candice~]

Persecution can get rid of that annoying disunity in a hurry. The trends are already taking shape, and I'm of the opinion that it won't be long before persecution comes to the US. It is already here in a small measure, but more is coming.

I think part of the problem is that (in the USA) we have too much free time to argue over things that don't really matter instead of making disciples. Persecution will fix that problem too.

wise words

[Guest shiloh357]

 

 

 

Why is there no unity in the body of Christ?

 

There are disputes on every single point of doctrine there is. Very few agree on a lot of things. Even fewer agree on most things. I've never come across 2 believers that agreed on everything. The bible states in the book of Acts that the Apostles were of 1 accord. The first believers were in unity. With each other and Christ.

 

Why aren't we?

 

People often say it's ok, because we are never going to agree on everything. But, the bible says Christ is not divided. Where is the unity? Is it we understand the scripture differently? Well, if we are all being led to the truth by the same Holy Spirit, then shouldn't it be the same truth we arrive at?  Is it because we are at different places in our walk with Christ? But even then, the same core truth should be there, should be the same. Just built upon. Line upon line. An unfolding living revelation coming from the living Word.

 

How can every believer be hearing and being led by the same Holy Spirit and all of us come to different answers to the exact same questions? Why is it seen as such a bad thing to say " I don't know " or " I was wrong ". If Christ is love, then shouldn't unity start there to? Isn't forgiveness apart of love?

 

Where is the Unity?

 

May the living Lord Jesus Bless you all

 

Firestormx

Joseph

1. One very big reason is that we each have unique needs the Lord ministers the Word of God to us to meet those unique needs.   The Lord can minister a verse or passage of Scripture to you to meet a need in your life and then minister the same passage to me to meet a completely different need in my life.  Our difference in perspective is based on the different needs we had that were met in that passage.  Therefore, we come away with unique and different ways of approaching that passage.

 

2. There are cultural differences as well.   If you live in Southern California, you are going to have a different take on Scripture than someone living in rural, East Tennessee.

 

3. Denominations are, by and large divided more over traditions than essential doctrine.  Many of the theolgical differences are over secondary issues, not primary issues.

 

4. Let me ask you this.  If being "unified" means that we all have the same doctrinal views, wouldn't that stymie personal study of the Word of God?  I mean, think of it like this.  Whose views win out if we all have to believe the same things in order for there to be "unity?"   It requires a willingness on the part of everyone to forego the ability to think and study for themselves and simply believe what they are told they must believe in order preserve unity.   So whose doctrinal views become the views of the collective?  Who gets to decide what everyone must agree upon (whether they like it or not)?

 

We have to be careful that we are not confusing "unity" with comformity of thought and manipulation/control.  I always have a problem when people start defining unity in doctrinal terms because it means that we must leave our own convictions at the door and simply follow what we are told to believe.

 

I have numbered your response and will take them in order.

 

1. If you don't understand that there are different levels of revelation on a biblical subject, and there being different levels of revelation has nothing to do with the heart of the core beliefs or unity then there is nothing for us to discuss.

 

2. Christ is 1. Not 500 but . I don't care about cultural differences. It should all be nothing in Christ. At least in regards to the Word of God. One Spirit and one baptism.

 

3.  I will quote the word on this one. By your traditions you have made the Word of God of no effect.

 

4. first, reread my first response. then I say this. True unity will never come as long as people insist on doing things out of there own heads. It comes from being one in Christ. Just as Christ and the Father are one, so we should be one in Christ. That was Christ's prayer in the book of John. So let me ask you this. Would Jesus pray and ask for something that was not possible for us? Were there any division's between Jesus and the Father? No of course not. We are suppose to be one, unified just like them. You want an example of proper unity since you accuse me of " thought and manipulation/control ". Then look to Jesus and the book of John. I don't remember telling you to believe what your told. you have falsely accused me as far as I am concerned. You have also lied about me in your post. Claiming I said and implied things I have not, which makes them lies. Jesus does not tell lies on people. So it is clear what spirit is leading you as far as I am concerned. I will not respond to you again.

 

 

I am not attacking you, nor did I accuse you of  thought control or manipulation.   What I said is that we should not confuse "unity" with having the same exact doctrines.  If unity is defined as everyone believing the exact same thing, who has the authority to determine what that doctrine will be?   Are you willing to sacrifice things you believe about God for the purpose of unity?   How exactly would we come to an exact agreement on every point doctrine in Scripture? 

 

"Having the same mind," doesn't mean that we all must believe the exact same things.  When we are called on by Paul to have the same mind, he is referring to attitude or disposition.   We are to be unified in purpose and we are to be unified in our common faith in Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior.  That does not mean that we must agree on every point of doctrine.

 

Unity is not the absence of diversity.  Diversity is not division or schism.  Most of the division and schisms that Paul was addressing was occur within specific congregations.  Paul doesn't complain that the Corinthians are different from the Philippians.  He isn't complaining that the Thessalonicans have a different position on certain matters than the Ephesisans.   Churches of various denominations can experience unity when they join forces for the common good of our society, especially in humanitarian activities.

 

I will now respond to your numbered responses:

 

1.  I was not referring to different levels of revelation.  I was saying that God meets our needs through the Scriptures and that the same Scripture can be applied different ways in order to meet those needs.   Often times, we confuse interpretation with application and mistakenlly think that the meaning of a given passage only applies to how it was used in our own lives.   The Bible speaks of the manifold (many-sided) wisdom  of God.  Many religious debates tend to center around mistaking application for interpretation.

 

2.  Cultural differences are a part of human existence and cannot be summarily brushed aside. God did not circumvent Hebraic culture when He inspired Scripture; rather, He used it as a vehicle to communicate His truth.  Culture plays a big part in how we view the Bible.   A poor person in the third world will have a different take on the Scriptures than a more affluent person living in suburban America.   You wanted to know why it appears there is no unity and cultural differences definitely speak to that.

 

3.  Jesus was speaking to rabbinic traditions that the Rabbis had established to justify their disobedience to the law.  Jesus was not against tradition itself.  He didn't condemn the existence of traditions.  He condemned the way they had been misused hypocrtically to become a self-righteous, ostentatious display meant to glorify self instead of God.   When I say that denominations differ on traditions, I am referring things like sprinkling vs. water immersion, speaking in tounges vs. cessationism, the old hymns vs. modern praise songs.   These don't nullify the word of God.  They are simply different ways of expressing faithfulness to God.

 

4.  Being one in Christ doesn't mean that we have the same exact doctrinal position on all things.  If that were what it means, then how do we go about deciding who has to sacrifice what they believe and practice for the sake of "unity?"   Whose doctrines are wrong and are just coming "out of their head?"   Who is endowed with the kind of spiritual wisdom needed to determine what beliefs are to be accepted and which ones are to be discarded?   Has the Holy Spirit donned anyone with the spiritual mantle to be the supreme and final arbiter on all matters of faith and practice for all Christians for all time??  

 

The Bible never proposes the notion that everyone must agree on all points of doctrine, faith and practice.  In general, we actually do have a great deal of unity around the essentials of the faith, to be truthful.   Where we differ doesn't make us disunified.   Disunity doesn't stem from differences over doctrinal particulars.  It stems from strife, pride, bitterness, etc.  It is those things that keep us from being, "of one mind."

[enoob57]

We are in the unbounded realty of new birth and destiny and I believe Shiloh's post reflects that reality.... Love, Steven