Why no unity?

[Guest]

Persecution can get rid of that annoying disunity in a hurry. The trends are already taking shape, and I'm of the opinion that it won't be long before persecution comes to the US. It is already here in a small measure, but more is coming.

 

I think part of the problem is that (in the USA) we have too much free time to argue over things that don't really matter instead of making disciples. Persecution will fix that problem too.

[Guest]

Persecution can get rid of that annoying disunity in a hurry.

 

Amen~!

[JDavis]

I am not sure the vision of unity you speak of existed even in the time of Jesus. 

 

The disciples fought over who would get to sit at the right hand of Jesus, they questioned Jesus.  Even after his death Thomas questioned the other disciples

 

In Acts the believers argued over who was being taken care of.

 

The apostles disagreed with Peter and his ministry to the Gentiles

 

Paul and Mark had issues with each other.  Paul and Barnabas got into a fight over Mark to the point they went their separate ways on a mission trip.

 

The Council at Jerusalem was the result of disagreements

 

Much of Paul's writings were to address differences that people had.

 

 

We are all human and thus we are all imperfect.  But I agree with the others that we agree on the essentials for the most part, what we bicker over is the window dressing

[Fez]

"Disunity" It is to a degree "built in" to our idea of church, which is not necessarily rooted, as Jesus would have taught it, in family.

 

The New Testament is Hebrew thought written in Greek and it should be interpreted by a Hebrew thought pattern. But it's not for one important reason.

 

In the 1800 -early 1900's all early theology fell into the hands of German theologians who were, generally speaking, anti Semitic. The result is an anti-Hebrew model of the church, and modern church leadership is a classical example of this (I am of course generalizing, there are many churches based on the Ephesians 4 (about 1 - 15), model.

 

The term elder in the NT was carried over from the OT, they were city fathers who sat at the gates of the city (Deut 21: 18-21, take note of vs 19), and Proverbs 31:23.

 

The elders 'sitting at the gate' which was the only way in and out of a walled city (read church), were a 'protection' and had tremendous authority (Deut 25: 5-10, check out vs 7,8). When you said the word leader a Hebrew immediately thought of a 'father'. 

 

But those who think with a Greek or Gentile mentality think of a leader as a CEO or managing Director. So many who set up church structures set them up like a business.

 

And the sense of family and it's unity is lost.

 

We need to change that mindset.

[Guest man]

Why is there no unity in the body of Christ?

 

 

If there is no unity, can it really be called the body of Christ?  

[Guest man]

1 Corinthians 1

10 Now I plead with you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that you all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you, but that you be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment.

 

 

Philippians 2

1 Therefore if there is any consolation in Christ, if any comfort of love, if any fellowship of the Spirit, if any affection and mercy, 

2 fulfill my joy by being like-minded, having the same love, being of one accord, of one mind. 

3 Let nothing be done through selfish ambition or conceit, but in lowliness of mind let each esteem others better than himself. 

4 Let each of you look out not only for his own interests, but also for the interests of others.

[JDavis]

Why do you suppose Paul made that plea?

Seems a lack of unity is an on going problem that in reality will not be solved till we are living in our new bodies

is this lack of unity a by-product of the Tower of Babel incident?

[Guest man]

John 4

19 The woman said to Him, “Sir, I perceive that You are a prophet. 

20 Our fathers worshiped on this mountain, and you Jews say that in Jerusalem is the place where one ought to worship.”

21 Jesus said to her, “Woman, believe Me, the hour is coming when you will neither on this mountain, nor in Jerusalem, worship the Father. 

22 You worship what you do not know; we know what we worship, for salvation is of the Jews. 

23 But the hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth; for the Father is seeking such to worship Him. 

24 God is Spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth.”

[nebula]

"Disunity" It is to a degree "built in" to our idea of church, which is not necessarily rooted, as Jesus would have taught it, in family.

 

The New Testament is Hebrew thought written in Greek and it should be interpreted by a Hebrew thought pattern. But it's not for one important reason.

 

In the 1800 -early 1900's all early theology fell into the hands of German theologians who were, generally speaking, anti Semitic. The result is an anti-Hebrew model of the church, and modern church leadership is a classical example of this (I am of course generalizing, there are many churches based on the Ephesians 4 (about 1 - 15), model.

 

The term elder in the NT was carried over from the OT, they were city fathers who sat at the gates of the city (Deut 21: 18-21, take note of vs 19), and Proverbs 31:23.

 

The elders 'sitting at the gate' which was the only way in and out of a walled city (read church), were a 'protection' and had tremendous authority (Deut 25: 5-10, check out vs 7,8). When you said the word leader a Hebrew immediately thought of a 'father'. 

 

But those who think with a Greek or Gentile mentality think of a leader as a CEO or managing Director. So many who set up church structures set them up like a business.

 

And the sense of family and it's unity is lost.

 

We need to change that mindset.

 

Great input! Thanks for explaining this.

[nebula]

Personally, I do not believe unity is as much about thinking as one as much as it is working as one.

 

Consider for instance how 3 people talking about the same event will describe it differently, even remember it differently. For this and other reasons, I do not believe it reasonable to expect our thought patterns, perspectives, conclusions, awareness of reality, interpretations, and the like are going to be the same. In many ways, though, our discussing our disagreements can be beneficial to us, "as iron sharpening iron."

 

What matters, though, is that we hold each other before the Lord, we minister to each other, our congregations be built as a family not a business (as Fez mentioned), and the like.