The Passion of Christ

[serotta]

Very insightful post Other One, thank you. I too purchased the DVD and have yet to watch it. I saw the movie twice in the theater because I wanted to bring someone, and it was just as powerful as the first time. But I don't want to ever get to the point where I take His sacrifice for granted, or am desensitized to it.

[other one]

hello to all

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Hello Eric6680, how has your day been?

Nice to see you here, come back often.......

[JimR-OCDS]

I did not see the movie and do not plan to see it . The fact that is was bassed on Catholic doctrine and a nuns visions makes it unacceptable to me........

So, you don't believe Jesus appeared to the nun, Sister Anne Catherine Emmrich. Do you believe Jesus appears to anyone? If not, do you even believe he is risen?

I was raised catholic so know the beliefs and do not wish to clutter my mind with more false doctrine.......

You were raised Catholic, but you have demonstrated time and time again in this forum, that the so called false doctrines, which you believe to be Catholic, are not actually what the Church teaches.

It amazes me how anyone who has not seen the movie, can tell us how wrong it is.

[Guest Thomas I believe]

This movie was an extremely reflective movie.  Whatever you took into the movie you came out with, only a hundred fold.

It is true that there are many deep catholic teachings in the movie.  They were intertwined into the story and unless you were knowledgable of the teachings they simply came across as the privilege of the writer/director to make the story flow and have life going on in the background.

I went with my wife and had two close friends that also saw it, and none of them even remembered the things of the catholic teaching.  So if it was ment as a subliminal teaching it didn't work for those things didn't even register with the general public.

If you came in a catholic, you left with a deeper understanding of your faith.  If you came in as a general christian, you left with a deeper understanding of just what our Lord actually did for us.

If you came in as a sinner, you came out with the understanding that "My God,  he didn't even have to do that, did he."  "Why would anyone do that."  I have heard that from so many non christian people I lost count.  It got their attention and made them think, and that is something that I have not seen hardly anyone do much lately with the possible exception of Billy Graham.

We had the same experience with the viewers in the movie,  it was not only silent when the movie started, it was silent when we all left.  I saw the eyes of those lined up to see the next showing and they were all spellbound watching us leave the theater. Some even had their mouths wide open just staring at us.

I purchased the movie the first day it went out on dvd........  I simply can't watch it again.  It was not a waste of money for I'll loan it out to many people, but like 2bba, I simply do not have the inner energy to go through it again.  I think to do so might start a numbing process that I really don't want to happen.  I think I understand the physical thing he did for us, but I can not even begin to imagine the mental torment He went through when the Father turned away...... no words.....  simply no words.

In life for me I know of no one that has had anything but a positive experience from watching the movie.  But be assured that it is just a movie,  just a movie about my Lord and Master, showing me what he did for me physically and giving me a small taste of what I hope to not experience come judgement day when the father turns away from the lost.... loss of words.....  loss... of words

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Right on Sam.. You nailed it right on the head.

[Botz]

Super Jew...

If there's one thing that the American public does the best, it's that we over-evaluate and find a conspiracy within every aspect of our lives. Even if Mel had a hidden agenda, we must ask ourselves how this film has harmed Christianity. Unless we can come up with conclusive proof, we must realize that our opinions are with no effect.

I agree that the article at the beginning of the thread went overboard.

To understand the potential harm to the Gospel from this film might not be immediately apparent amongst the euphoria that has yet to settle...I would certainly say that wholesale Christian endorsement of something that many realise was largely inspired from the writings of a virulent anti-Semite Catholic mystic and based on the notorious European Passion plays that were the scourge of many Jewish communities sends out certain strong signals about compromise and integrity.

Tess...

Being a Redeemer is His identity. His entire nature encompasses taking what is evil and making it good. Taking what is lost and making it found. Taking what is dead and making it alive. Almost anything we do as humans will be tainted by our own selfish ambition or agenda. Thankfully, God specializes in taking those things and giving them eternal purpose. See Genesis 50:20. If God can take satan's agenda and use it, I think he can take yours or mine too.

I take your point Tess and that is to my mind the redeeming feature about the film...that G-d can take it whatever its intentions, faults and limitations and use it to His glory...but for some of us there are too many troubling factors with the Passion and we are unable to share the enthusiasm of the majority of fellow Believers in this instance.

[serotta]

People can read racial slurs into just about everything if they are so inclined. I did not see any hint of an antisemitic slant to The Passion. Just my observation.

[apothanein kerdos]

To understand the potential harm to the Gospel from this film might not be immediately apparent amongst the euphoria that has yet to settle...I would certainly say that wholesale Christian endorsement of something that many realise was largely inspired from the writings of a virulent anti-Semite Catholic mystic and based on the notorious European Passion plays that were the scourge of many Jewish communities sends out certain strong signals about compromise and integrity.

I think you're making a lot of assumptions in there Botz. For one, Mel Gibson is not anti-semetic, his father is. He has even come out saying that he disagrees with his father on much of what he says...so I fail to see how Mel Gibson is anti-semetic. Likewise, to compare this to a Passion play and say that is is based off them makes me raise my eyebrow. The passion plays in Europe had one intention alone; to show the Jews responcible for Christ's death and to incite people to kill them. In the movie "The Passion" we see many Jews defending Christ and getting kicked out. We also see that Jesus Himself was Jewish. Most importantly we see that He willingly placed Himself upon the cross.

[Botz]

Botz...

To understand the potential harm to the Gospel from this film might not be immediately apparent amongst the euphoria that has yet to settle...I would certainly say that wholesale Christian endorsement of something that many realise was largely inspired from the writings of a virulent anti-Semite Catholic mystic and based on the notorious European Passion plays that were the scourge of many Jewish communities sends out certain strong signals about compromise and integrity.

Serotta...

People can read racial slurs into just about everything if they are so inclined. I did not see any hint of an antisemitic slant to The Passion. Just my observation.

I am not so inclined.

Super Jew...

I think you're making a lot of assumptions in there Botz. For one, Mel Gibson is not anti-semetic, his father is. He has even come out saying that he disagrees with his father on much of what he says...so I fail to see how Mel Gibson is anti-semetic. Likewise, to compare this to a Passion play and say that is is based off them makes me raise my eyebrow. The passion plays in Europe had one intention alone; to show the Jews responcible for Christ's death and to incite people to kill them. In the movie "The Passion" we see many Jews defending Christ and getting kicked out. We also see that Jesus Himself was Jewish. Most importantly we see that He willingly placed Himself upon the cross.

I don't think I introduced the idea of Mel Gibson being anti-Semitic but I am very aware of the stance of his father. I would also point out that it is easy for someone like Gibson who is in the public eye to deny any anti-Semitism...but then through his very actions substantially use material that casts reasonable doubts on the veracity of his words. Personally I felt a degree of expediency lay in his interviews and what he uttered but the jury is out on that for the moment.

I thought the very naming of the film...'The Passion' would have raised a few eyebrows...ok so it is not overtly inciting people to hate the Jews...but many in the Jewish community over-reacted based on their natural assumptions and memories of what this would evoke and I think they probably researched the origins of much of Mel Gibsons material with further trepidation and no little justification.

The difficulty for me...and I am not completely alone in this...is that because the film is basically telling the story of something that is close to our hearts and has had an effect in re-newing people in their faith and converting others it becomes a cinematic sacred cow ...untouchable.

In these 'perilous times' without developing a grandiose paranoia we need to truely be wise as serpents and gentle as doves..and to check things out for ourselves. The unsettling alarm bells that are ringing in my spirit are not as been suggested based on assumptions or the contentious desire to chase conspiracy theories (for which I have no time whatsoever) but on enough indications and glaringly obvious factual information to make me choose to hold back on endorsing this film or using it as a tool to reach the lost.

[Budman]

The passion plays in Europe had one intention alone; to show the Jews responcible for Christ's death and to incite people to kill them. In the movie "The Passion" we see many Jews defending Christ and getting kicked out. We also see that Jesus Himself was Jewish. Most importantly we see that He willingly placed Himself upon the cross.

Great post, SJ.

People need to realize that we are ALL responsible, because of our sins, for Christ going to the cross, not just the Jews.

warm regards

-bud