Another contradiction?

[Fez]

I've never seen so much ado made over how people write the name or title of "the deceiver" (which is what ha satan means).

Ok then how about "The Deceiver"?  . Sorry it's lower case for me.

 

Like "I am" is not the same as "I AM"?

 

No big deal, it's just the way I do it for me....

[OakWood]

Who cares whether you use lower case or upper case for the name of Satan? I just wanted to get my point across. I'm stubborn sometimes. Whichever works best for you.

[ayin jade]

 

WillowWood....your reasoning just makes me more steadfast to continue on as I have.  I am guilty as charged in your eyes. But to me it is in between a pet peeve and an honor issue. I do know that names mean something in the bible.  In the OT the scribes would wash their hands and change their clothes and get new ink and pen before they even wrote the name of God.  And then do the same routine after writing it.  This they did each and every time.  Was that superstition? 

And really, I don't expect to be tapped on the shoulder by the Lord and be instructed to put a cap on the S.  usually it is best just to step back and do consider......WWJD?     Would He conform to the punctuation laws of man?  

It has nothing to do with superstition with me. I capitalize God and use lower case for satan. It is my mark of respect for God and otherwise for satan.

 

Makes me feel good so why not? 

 

 

Im with fez. I will not capitalize the name of the enemy. Usually I will not even speak or say his name. Not for superstition but because I do not want to say or type it. 

[a-seeker]

Demons don't obey a person because they are a Christian or not, but because of the authority in the name of Jesus. There is no contradiction between the two passages.

That's not true.  Acts 19:13.  The name of Jesus is invoked and the Jewish exorcists are beaten up by the possessed

 

clb

[Willa]

WillowWood....your reasoning just makes me more steadfast to continue on as I have. I am guilty as charged in your eyes. But to me it is in between a pet peeve and an honor issue. I do know that names mean something in the bible. In the OT the scribes would wash their hands and change their clothes and get new ink and pen before they even wrote the name of God. And then do the same routine after writing it. This they did each and every time. Was that superstition?

And really, I don't expect to be tapped on the shoulder by the Lord and be instructed to put a cap on the S. usually it is best just to step back and do consider......WWJD? Would He conform to the punctuation laws of man?

I didn't think that the Hebrew alphabet had capitals. But I know notheing.

I don't like to give satan that honor either. It has nothing to do with superstition. No good or bad luck involved here. It has to do with my attitude of honor toward God and much less respect for satan.

As to the OP. I think God has compassion on whoever He wants, and honors His Word and the name of Jesus whenever He wants. It has nothing to do with either person's character or whether they are going to heaven. He sends rain on both the just and the unjust. It is sad that ungodly people take credit for the work of God, but many do, and those who flock to their meetings just to see a side show, a miracle, are perhaps just as guilty. We can be so gullible and so easily deceived.

[Montana Marv]

Why do many us use Upper case our handles or names.  Not all do though.  And we are made a little lower than the angels.  If the angels Gabriel and Michael have their names with upper case then Satan also deserves his name in upper case.  It is a matter of respect of position.

 

In Christ

Montana Marv

[Charlie24]

The more I analyze and think about the bible the more I seem to find one scripture not pair with another. Here is a new problem I found when pairing up scripture today.

In this verse you will see that jesus says that satan does not cast out satan because he would be working against himself and if he did his kingdom would not stand.

(Matthew 12:26

New International Version (NIV)

26 If Satan drives out Satan, he is divided against himself. How then can his kingdom stand?)

We know jesus said this because some people were saying he casts out demons by satan.

When I read that verse what I understand is that satan does not cast out himself or he would limit his power and his kingdom would fall.

But then theres always some other verse that seems to contradict the current one. This is also what jesus said.

(Matthew 7 v 21

New International Version (NIV)

21 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven,but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ 23 Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’)

Here we see jesus saying there will be people who drove out satan in his name who were not gods people and will be rejected by christ on judgment day. As far as I understand the doctrines of the bible you are either a believer or a non believer and if a non believer or false believer peforms a miracles then their power to peform it comes from satan not god.

However in matthew 12 v 26 jesus clearly says satan wouldnt drive out himself because his kingdom would not stand but he claims the opposite when in matthew 7 v 22 he states that false believers have cast out demons. (and by what power?)

So for now I will leave it up to the forum to correct my thinking if in fact I am seeing these verses wrong.

These people in Matt. 7:21-23 did NOT cast out demons. How do I know that? Jesus said to them "depart from me, I never knew you." These people were not saved, therefore, the Holy Spirit could not work through them. They thought they had cast out demons. But Jesus tells them, not only did you do nothing in my name, you have also lost your souls.

 

Their faith was not properly placed in Jesus Christ. All Jesus asks of us is to believe in His Son, then the works will follow. These people put the cart before the mule, so to speak. They never knew Jesus and paid the ultimate price for it.  

[ajchurney]

I think that Matt 7:21-23 clearly shows the difference between mere religiosity and  living relationship with Christ. As in many of Jesus' parables, He is making one main point, and this is the main point. The verse is not a doctrinal treatise on who can or cannot do miracles in His name. the plain fact is that the verses DO NOT attest in any way to the genuineness of the miracles. This is not really the point of what Jesus is saying. The point here is that one can attempt to do ANYTHING in His name as some sort of religious act, but if Christ does not "Know" you, you will not enter into His kingdom. I have no problem with going elsewhere in scripture to try to make the case, but it could be irresponsible to start speculating on implications that are just not clearly in the text. This is one of the basic rules of interpreting the parables of Jesus: He is always making a main point, and it is not wise to look too hard for hidden doctrines within his stories. I understand multi-layered prophecies and all of that, I just feel that caution is wise in these sort of cases. MANY strange doctrines come from using such methods.

[MelanieJoyelle]

2 Cor 11:14-15

14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.

15 Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness

; whose end shall be according to their works.

KJV

in the end times the Anti-Christ will show signs and wonders and by doing so, will deceive many. this two sets of verses you show do not contradict but work hand and hand. the kingdom of satan will fall, and Jesus says it must be divided before it can fall. in the end times satan ministers will be casting out demons, they will do this so that they can deceive others that they are from God. but by doing so they will be dividing their own kingdom, for destruction.

 

I agree ... sometimes it's hard to correctly grasp what Jesus means.  I have seen a number of people "cast out demons", only to have them return.  I have come to understand that they did not cast the demons out at all, but it was a deception - which can happen to people who think they have the authority, but don't.  Demons are only subject to the Lord Jesus Christ, and to the apostles of Christ to whom He gave that authority. 

 

There is an example in Acts that is quite interesting ...

 

Acts 19

¹³ Then certain of the vagabond Jews, exorcists, took upon them to call over them which had evil spirits the name of the Lord Jesus, saying, We adjure you by Jesus whom Paul preacheth.

¹⁴ And there were seven sons of one Sceva, a Jew, and chief of the priests, which did so.

¹⁵ And the evil spirit answered and said, Jesus I know, and Paul I know; but who are ye?

¹⁶ And the man in whom the evil spirit was leaped on them, and overcame them, and prevailed against them, so that they fled out of that house naked and wounded.

¹⁷ And this was known to all the Jews and Greeks also dwelling at Ephesus; and fear fell on them all, and the name of the Lord Jesus was magnified.

¹⁸ And many that believed came, and confessed, and shewed their deeds.

[Guest Butero]

The more I analyze and think about the bible the more I seem to find one scripture not pair with another. Here is a new problem I found when pairing up scripture today.

In this verse you will see that jesus says that satan does not cast out satan because he would be working against himself and if he did his kingdom would not stand.

(Matthew 12:26

New International Version (NIV)

26 If Satan drives out Satan, he is divided against himself. How then can his kingdom stand?)

We know jesus said this because some people were saying he casts out demons by satan.

When I read that verse what I understand is that satan does not cast out himself or he would limit his power and his kingdom would fall.

But then theres always some other verse that seems to contradict the current one. This is also what jesus said.

(Matthew 7 v 21

New International Version (NIV)

21 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven,but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ 23 Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’)

Here we see jesus saying there will be people who drove out satan in his name who were not gods people and will be rejected by christ on judgment day. As far as I understand the doctrines of the bible you are either a believer or a non believer and if a non believer or false believer peforms a miracles then their power to peform it comes from satan not god.

However in matthew 12 v 26 jesus clearly says satan wouldnt drive out himself because his kingdom would not stand but he claims the opposite when in matthew 7 v 22 he states that false believers have cast out demons. (and by what power?)

So for now I will leave it up to the forum to correct my thinking if in fact I am seeing these verses wrong.

They are not casting out devils through the power of Satan.  They are doing it through the power of God.  It is possible that a non-Christian can still call on the name of Jesus and successfully cast out a demon, as Jesus name has power.  It is possible that a phony minister could build up someone's faith to the point where they are healed or delivered by the power of Christ, even though the minister isn't right.