Church Doctrine and Tradition of men

[fruitfull77]

 

Most of this discussion, to use the term loosely, is focused about Christmas, December 25th, being the time we should be celebrating the birth of Christ.

but looking into it further we can see that it was not even close.

Clement picked November 18.

If we use bible scripture instead of historians who seem to have no credibility, let's consider the following:

 

An analysis of scripture  shows that Dec 25 is the most unlikely date,

First we know shepherds were in the fields watching their flocks at the time of Jesus birth- Luke 2:7-8

Shepherds would not be in the fields during December.

December is usually cold and rainy (possible snow even)

It would be more likely shepherds would have shelters for their flocks at night. There are many sources for this view which makes more sense that the weather would not have  permitted shepherds watching over their flocks in the fields at night.

 

Next we could look at the fact that Jesus's parents came to Bethlehem to register in a Roman census- Luke 2:1-4.

It is highly unlikely that such a general census would be taken in the winter.when temperatures often dropped below freezing and roads would be in poor shape.

Taking a census under such conditions would have been self-defeating especially those with child and the elderly.

 

The Bible points to late September as the most likely time of Jesus' birth based on the conception and birth of John the Baptist.

Since Elizabeth -John's mother-was in her sixth month of pregnancy when Jesus was conceived -Luke 1:24-26 we can determine the approximate time of year Jesus was born.

It was learned that Elizabeth would have a child-John's conception would have been  near the end of June of that year-The companion Bible calculated the conception time from the Abijah service at the temple by Zacharias -Luke 1:5  after learning John's birth would be sometime in late  March of the following year.we add another six months after John's birth (the difference in ages between john and Jesus) brings us to the end of September as the likely time of Jesus' birth.

 

Aren't we lucky- we can now take Jesus out of the christmas December 25 scene. 

we can leave that date with pagans where it belongs.

 

what do you think about them apples?

 

The bible does not point to late September for Jesus birth. That is an error which has been propogated by certain teachers who apparently have a vested interest in a fall birth. Basing Jesus birth on the timing of the course of Abijah is a nice attempt, but the full understanding of these courses does not lead to that conclusion.

 

The Priests were divided into 24 groups, and each group served one week at a time. Abijah is the 8th group. Since there are 24 groups, obviously they must serve twice a year. Those who try to state with certainty ignore the twice a year service. Also the Hebrew calendar does not match the modern calendar. The Hebrew year starts on the first day of the month of Nissan. That is approximately March-April. Eight weeks later would be the end of the month of Iyyar which is approximately  April-May. Of course this fluctuates based on whether there is a leap month. (The calendar adjusts for drift, not with a leap day but with a leap month). Plus, for High Holidays, there is no separate course, but rather more priests are needed so some of all differing courses serve in the Temple. This March-April timing is what is set forth by those who wish Jesus was born in September, (and by now it should be understood that the fluctuations of the Hebrew calendar do not allow for anyone to claim September).

 

That second course in a year for Abiyah is in the fall in the month of Marheshvan which can be from  October to November. Ok, let's do this calculation. If Elizabeth became pregnant at the end of October, or beginning of November, that would put the birth of John sometime around June or July. Add 6 months to June, and you have around the December timeframe. Oh my!!!!! The reality is, we can not know the exact time of Jesus birth based on the courses of the priesthood, as there are too many variables, but one this is sure, the courses do not eliminate December. They do not confirm December, but for those trying to prove otherwise, they do not eliminate December.

 

I have written on the weather in the area of Bethlehem before. Many people assume for some reason that the sheep would not be out grazing in December, but they try to make an assumption which is not based on the actual weather in the Bethlehem area. Bethlehem is more of a mild meditaranean climate in temperature but is also in the desert. That means in December, the temperatures average around 50 or 60 degrees.

 

http://www.myweather2.com/City-Town/Israel/Bethlehem/climate-profile.aspx?month=12

 

Throughout the month of December daytime temperatures will generally reach highs of around 14°C that's about 58°F. At night the average minimum temperature drops down to around 7°C, that's 44°F.

In recent times the highest recorded temperature in December has been 29°C that's 83°F, with the lowest recorded temperature -1°C, about 30°F.

 

So, we can say that Bethlehem is not so cold that the shepherds would not be out grazing the sheep. The other factor is that the Bethlehem area is arrid, desert like. There is only grass on the hills after rainy seasons. The rest of the time, the plants would be brown and not growing. For sheep to be grazing, it must be right after the rainy season and not after an extended dry time.

 

From the previous site for December:

 

Precipitation

The average monthly amount of precipitation has been recorded at around 71 mm, that's 3 inches. Throughout the month you can expect to see rain or drizzle falling on 11 days of the month, with snow falling on 1 days.

  

Now let's look at the rain around Bethlehem in September:

 

http://www.myweather2.com/City-Town/Israel/Bethlehem/climate-profile.aspx?month=9

 

Precipitation

The average monthly amount of precipitation has been recorded at around 0 mm, that's 0 inches. Throughout the month you can expect to see rain or drizzle falling on 0 days of the month.

       

How about August:

 

http://www.myweather2.com/City-Town/Israel/Bethlehem/climate-profile.aspx?month=8

 

Precipitation

The average monthly amount of precipitation has been recorded at around 0 mm, that's 0 inches. Throughout the month you can expect to see rain or drizzle falling on 0 days of the month.

 

One more month back to find rain to have grass to graze on in September so here is July in Bethlehem:

 

http://www.myweather2.com/City-Town/Israel/Bethlehem/climate-profile.aspx?month=7

 

Precipitation

The average monthly amount of precipitation has been recorded at around 10 mm, that's 0 inches. Throughout the month you can expect to see rain or drizzle falling on 0 days of the month.

 

So, we can conclude that the shepherds would definitely NOT be out with the sheep in August, September or October, as there is nothing to graze on. The rainy season starts around November and ends around the April. In December, in the hills around Bethlehem, everything is in full bloom. From May - October, there is no rain, or only trace amounts (0 to less then an inch per month) so everything is dryed out and brown.

 

I like to get back to you on 2 issues, but you did not comment on the calling of the people by the Roman authorities to report to their cities for taxation from agricultural harvests and September with it's perfect weather conditions and fruitful bounty would be the ideal time for this undertaking and December would not because of the travel involved.

[Qnts2]

 

 

Most of this discussion, to use the term loosely, is focused about Christmas, December 25th, being the time we should be celebrating the birth of Christ.

but looking into it further we can see that it was not even close.

Clement picked November 18.

If we use bible scripture instead of historians who seem to have no credibility, let's consider the following:

 

An analysis of scripture  shows that Dec 25 is the most unlikely date,

First we know shepherds were in the fields watching their flocks at the time of Jesus birth- Luke 2:7-8

Shepherds would not be in the fields during December.

December is usually cold and rainy (possible snow even)

It would be more likely shepherds would have shelters for their flocks at night. There are many sources for this view which makes more sense that the weather would not have  permitted shepherds watching over their flocks in the fields at night.

 

Next we could look at the fact that Jesus's parents came to Bethlehem to register in a Roman census- Luke 2:1-4.

It is highly unlikely that such a general census would be taken in the winter.when temperatures often dropped below freezing and roads would be in poor shape.

Taking a census under such conditions would have been self-defeating especially those with child and the elderly.

 

The Bible points to late September as the most likely time of Jesus' birth based on the conception and birth of John the Baptist.

Since Elizabeth -John's mother-was in her sixth month of pregnancy when Jesus was conceived -Luke 1:24-26 we can determine the approximate time of year Jesus was born.

It was learned that Elizabeth would have a child-John's conception would have been  near the end of June of that year-The companion Bible calculated the conception time from the Abijah service at the temple by Zacharias -Luke 1:5  after learning John's birth would be sometime in late  March of the following year.we add another six months after John's birth (the difference in ages between john and Jesus) brings us to the end of September as the likely time of Jesus' birth.

 

Aren't we lucky- we can now take Jesus out of the christmas December 25 scene. 

we can leave that date with pagans where it belongs.

 

what do you think about them apples?

 

The bible does not point to late September for Jesus birth. That is an error which has been propogated by certain teachers who apparently have a vested interest in a fall birth. Basing Jesus birth on the timing of the course of Abijah is a nice attempt, but the full understanding of these courses does not lead to that conclusion.

 

The Priests were divided into 24 groups, and each group served one week at a time. Abijah is the 8th group. Since there are 24 groups, obviously they must serve twice a year. Those who try to state with certainty ignore the twice a year service. Also the Hebrew calendar does not match the modern calendar. The Hebrew year starts on the first day of the month of Nissan. That is approximately March-April. Eight weeks later would be the end of the month of Iyyar which is approximately  April-May. Of course this fluctuates based on whether there is a leap month. (The calendar adjusts for drift, not with a leap day but with a leap month). Plus, for High Holidays, there is no separate course, but rather more priests are needed so some of all differing courses serve in the Temple. This March-April timing is what is set forth by those who wish Jesus was born in September, (and by now it should be understood that the fluctuations of the Hebrew calendar do not allow for anyone to claim September).

 

That second course in a year for Abiyah is in the fall in the month of Marheshvan which can be from  October to November. Ok, let's do this calculation. If Elizabeth became pregnant at the end of October, or beginning of November, that would put the birth of John sometime around June or July. Add 6 months to June, and you have around the December timeframe. Oh my!!!!! The reality is, we can not know the exact time of Jesus birth based on the courses of the priesthood, as there are too many variables, but one this is sure, the courses do not eliminate December. They do not confirm December, but for those trying to prove otherwise, they do not eliminate December.

 

I have written on the weather in the area of Bethlehem before. Many people assume for some reason that the sheep would not be out grazing in December, but they try to make an assumption which is not based on the actual weather in the Bethlehem area. Bethlehem is more of a mild meditaranean climate in temperature but is also in the desert. That means in December, the temperatures average around 50 or 60 degrees.

 

http://www.myweather2.com/City-Town/Israel/Bethlehem/climate-profile.aspx?month=12

 

Throughout the month of December daytime temperatures will generally reach highs of around 14°C that's about 58°F. At night the average minimum temperature drops down to around 7°C, that's 44°F.

In recent times the highest recorded temperature in December has been 29°C that's 83°F, with the lowest recorded temperature -1°C, about 30°F.

 

So, we can say that Bethlehem is not so cold that the shepherds would not be out grazing the sheep. The other factor is that the Bethlehem area is arrid, desert like. There is only grass on the hills after rainy seasons. The rest of the time, the plants would be brown and not growing. For sheep to be grazing, it must be right after the rainy season and not after an extended dry time.

 

From the previous site for December:

 

Precipitation

The average monthly amount of precipitation has been recorded at around 71 mm, that's 3 inches. Throughout the month you can expect to see rain or drizzle falling on 11 days of the month, with snow falling on 1 days.

  

Now let's look at the rain around Bethlehem in September:

 

http://www.myweather2.com/City-Town/Israel/Bethlehem/climate-profile.aspx?month=9

 

Precipitation

The average monthly amount of precipitation has been recorded at around 0 mm, that's 0 inches. Throughout the month you can expect to see rain or drizzle falling on 0 days of the month.

       

How about August:

 

http://www.myweather2.com/City-Town/Israel/Bethlehem/climate-profile.aspx?month=8

 

Precipitation

The average monthly amount of precipitation has been recorded at around 0 mm, that's 0 inches. Throughout the month you can expect to see rain or drizzle falling on 0 days of the month.

 

One more month back to find rain to have grass to graze on in September so here is July in Bethlehem:

 

http://www.myweather2.com/City-Town/Israel/Bethlehem/climate-profile.aspx?month=7

 

Precipitation

The average monthly amount of precipitation has been recorded at around 10 mm, that's 0 inches. Throughout the month you can expect to see rain or drizzle falling on 0 days of the month.

 

So, we can conclude that the shepherds would definitely NOT be out with the sheep in August, September or October, as there is nothing to graze on. The rainy season starts around November and ends around the April. In December, in the hills around Bethlehem, everything is in full bloom. From May - October, there is no rain, or only trace amounts (0 to less then an inch per month) so everything is dryed out and brown.

 

I like to get back to you on 2 issues, but you did not comment on the calling of the people by the Roman authorities to report to their cities for taxation from agricultural harvests and September with it's perfect weather conditions and fruitful bounty would be the ideal time for this undertaking and December would not because of the travel involved.

 

 

Ok, let's look at the verses:

 

Luke 2:³ And everyone was on his way to register for the census, each to his own city. ⁴ Joseph also went up from Galilee, from the city of Nazareth, to Judea, to the city of David which is called Bethlehem, because he was of the house and family of David,

 

Each person was to go to their own city. So, some had to travel very far and that could take very long. At that time, Rome was especially cautious as they did not want to stir up the people or cause issues. Especially in Judea which was volitile. Towards the end of September or early October was the Feast of Succoth(booths), which is one of three Holy days that the Mosaic law said they were to go up to Jerusalem. Rome would not require the Jewish people to travel for a census to their own cities if that interfered with the travel to Jerusalem for Succoth. For Rome, that would be a political cliff for whoever made that timing. I do not know of any historical records or scripture which put the census in September, but given the political climate, it is a pretty safe bet that Rome would not rock the boat like that. (As it was, there was a minor uprising as this was a census to evaluate taxation).

 

The best time for a census would be a time when it did not interfere with either harvest or Judaism. The other time for travel to Jerusalem would be in the spring, for Passover and Shavuot (Pentacost). So, the middle of winter, or the middle of summer would be the better options.

[Fez]

Most of this discussion, to use the term loosely, is focused about Christmas, December 25th, being the time we should be celebrating the birth of Christ.

but looking into it further we can see that it was not even close.

Clement picked November 18.

If we use bible scripture instead of historians who seem to have no credibility, let's consider the following:

 

An analysis of scripture  shows that Dec 25 is the most unlikely date,

First we know shepherds were in the fields watching their flocks at the time of Jesus birth- Luke 2:7-8

Shepherds would not be in the fields during December.

December is usually cold and rainy (possible snow even)

It would be more likely shepherds would have shelters for their flocks at night. There are many sources for this view which makes more sense that the weather would not have  permitted shepherds watching over their flocks in the fields at night.

 

Next we could look at the fact that Jesus's parents came to Bethlehem to register in a Roman census- Luke 2:1-4.

It is highly unlikely that such a general census would be taken in the winter.when temperatures often dropped below freezing and roads would be in poor shape.

Taking a census under such conditions would have been self-defeating especially those with child and the elderly.

 

The Bible points to late September as the most likely time of Jesus' birth based on the conception and birth of John the Baptist.

Since Elizabeth -John's mother-was in her sixth month of pregnancy when Jesus was conceived -Luke 1:24-26 we can determine the approximate time of year Jesus was born.

It was learned that Elizabeth would have a child-John's conception would have been  near the end of June of that year-The companion Bible calculated the conception time from the Abijah service at the temple by Zacharias -Luke 1:5  after learning John's birth would be sometime in late  March of the following year.we add another six months after John's birth (the difference in ages between john and Jesus) brings us to the end of September as the likely time of Jesus' birth.

 

Aren't we lucky- we can now take Jesus out of the christmas December 25 scene. 

we can leave that date with pagans where it belongs.

 

what do you think about them apples?

 

The bible does not point to late September for Jesus birth. That is an error which has been propogated by certain teachers who apparently have a vested interest in a fall birth. Basing Jesus birth on the timing of the course of Abijah is a nice attempt, but the full understanding of these courses does not lead to that conclusion.

 

The Priests were divided into 24 groups, and each group served one week at a time. Abijah is the 8th group. Since there are 24 groups, obviously they must serve twice a year. Those who try to state with certainty ignore the twice a year service. Also the Hebrew calendar does not match the modern calendar. The Hebrew year starts on the first day of the month of Nissan. That is approximately March-April. Eight weeks later would be the end of the month of Iyyar which is approximately  April-May. Of course this fluctuates based on whether there is a leap month. (The calendar adjusts for drift, not with a leap day but with a leap month). Plus, for High Holidays, there is no separate course, but rather more priests are needed so some of all differing courses serve in the Temple. This March-April timing is what is set forth by those who wish Jesus was born in September, (and by now it should be understood that the fluctuations of the Hebrew calendar do not allow for anyone to claim September).

 

That second course in a year for Abiyah is in the fall in the month of Marheshvan which can be from  October to November. Ok, let's do this calculation. If Elizabeth became pregnant at the end of October, or beginning of November, that would put the birth of John sometime around June or July. Add 6 months to June, and you have around the December timeframe. Oh my!!!!! The reality is, we can not know the exact time of Jesus birth based on the courses of the priesthood, as there are too many variables, but one this is sure, the courses do not eliminate December. They do not confirm December, but for those trying to prove otherwise, they do not eliminate December.

 

I have written on the weather in the area of Bethlehem before. Many people assume for some reason that the sheep would not be out grazing in December, but they try to make an assumption which is not based on the actual weather in the Bethlehem area. Bethlehem is more of a mild meditaranean climate in temperature but is also in the desert. That means in December, the temperatures average around 50 or 60 degrees.

 

http://www.myweather2.com/City-Town/Israel/Bethlehem/climate-profile.aspx?month=12

 

Throughout the month of December daytime temperatures will generally reach highs of around 14°C that's about 58°F. At night the average minimum temperature drops down to around 7°C, that's 44°F.

In recent times the highest recorded temperature in December has been 29°C that's 83°F, with the lowest recorded temperature -1°C, about 30°F.

 

So, we can say that Bethlehem is not so cold that the shepherds would not be out grazing the sheep. The other factor is that the Bethlehem area is arrid, desert like. There is only grass on the hills after rainy seasons. The rest of the time, the plants would be brown and not growing. For sheep to be grazing, it must be right after the rainy season and not after an extended dry time.

 

From the previous site for December:

 

Precipitation

The average monthly amount of precipitation has been recorded at around 71 mm, that's 3 inches. Throughout the month you can expect to see rain or drizzle falling on 11 days of the month, with snow falling on 1 days.

  

Now let's look at the rain around Bethlehem in September:

 

http://www.myweather2.com/City-Town/Israel/Bethlehem/climate-profile.aspx?month=9

 

Precipitation

The average monthly amount of precipitation has been recorded at around 0 mm, that's 0 inches. Throughout the month you can expect to see rain or drizzle falling on 0 days of the month.

       

How about August:

 

http://www.myweather2.com/City-Town/Israel/Bethlehem/climate-profile.aspx?month=8

 

Precipitation

The average monthly amount of precipitation has been recorded at around 0 mm, that's 0 inches. Throughout the month you can expect to see rain or drizzle falling on 0 days of the month.

 

One more month back to find rain to have grass to graze on in September so here is July in Bethlehem:

 

http://www.myweather2.com/City-Town/Israel/Bethlehem/climate-profile.aspx?month=7

 

Precipitation

The average monthly amount of precipitation has been recorded at around 10 mm, that's 0 inches. Throughout the month you can expect to see rain or drizzle falling on 0 days of the month.

 

So, we can conclude that the shepherds would definitely NOT be out with the sheep in August, September or October, as there is nothing to graze on. The rainy season starts around November and ends around the April. In December, in the hills around Bethlehem, everything is in full bloom. From May - October, there is no rain, or only trace amounts (0 to less then an inch per month) so everything is dryed out and brown.

I like to get back to you on 2 issues, but you did not comment on the calling of the people by the Roman authorities to report to their cities for taxation from agricultural harvests and September with it's perfect weather conditions and fruitful bounty would be the ideal time for this undertaking and December would not because of the travel involved.

 

Ok, let's look at the verses:

 

Luke 2:³ And everyone was on his way to register for the census, each to his own city. ⁴ Joseph also went up from Galilee, from the city of Nazareth, to Judea, to the city of David which is called Bethlehem, because he was of the house and family of David,

 

Each person was to go to their own city. So, some had to travel very far and that could take very long. At that time, Rome was especially cautious as they did not want to stir up the people or cause issues. Especially in Judea which was volitile. Towards the end of September or early October was the Feast of Succoth(booths), which is one of three Holy days that the Mosaic law said they were to go up to Jerusalem. Rome would not require the Jewish people to travel for a census to their own cities if that interfered with the travel to Jerusalem for Succoth. For Rome, that would be a political cliff for whoever made that timing. I do not know of any historical records or scripture which put the census in September, but given the political climate, it is a pretty safe bet that Rome would not rock the boat like that. (As it was, there was a minor uprising as this was a census to evaluate taxation).

 

The best time for a census would be a time when it did not interfere with either harvest or Judaism. The other time for travel to Jerusalem would be in the spring, for Passover and Shavuot (Pentacost). So, the middle of winter, or the middle of summer would be the better options.

People, it's a real pain to scroll down through a mile of post just to read a one liner.. Lets prune our posts OK? Did I make my point ?

[enoob57]

but what if the whole tree is dead... shouldn't they just cut the whole thing down oh! wait a miniute

that's what were talking about here

[His_disciple3]

People, it's a real pain to scroll down through a mile of post just to read a one liner.. Lets prune our posts OK? Did I make my point ?

we could just TRIM our post a little maybe even put some silver and gold on it

[Atwood]

 

I believe in the eyes of God,there is only one church,that is church of Jesus Christ,i may be right or wrong,iam open to correction,A preacher said that because of church doctrine and tradition of men,many christian will go to hell fire,do you guys agree with him,some christian doesn't celebrate christmas,they said Jesus was not born on 25th, and beside it is not biblical,and Christ did not ask us to celebrate His birth,I want to ask is it a must that every christian must celebrate christmas,is celebrating christmas biblical or tradition of men.some church said that it is not good for a christian to drink alcohol,why some encourage it,because the first miracle Jesus perform on earth,was turning water to wine.what do you think.

Is wine only fermented or are there non alcoholic wine ?

 

My opinion:

the word for wine in the NT includes both grape juice and alcoholic wine. In a sense I don't think grape juice was invented. Was it Welch who invented pasteurizing it so it would not ferment?

[Openly Curious]

A tree in the woods or forest is just that a living tree a creation of God he called good after he created it.

 

It is when someone goes and chops that tree down and carves it out decorates it up and then takes it and sets it up as a literal idol to be worshipped.  It's like the golden calf that had been fashioned or formed from the gold that the children of Israel came out of Egyptian bondage with.  Things are just things mere material no matter what it may be.  But when one takes or picks anything out of God's creation that he has created and sets it up as an idol to be worshipped is in the wrong.  Because they worship the creation instead of the CREATOR who made everything there is both the visible and invisible things.  That is what the people did that the prophet Jeremiah was speaking about.  The people had went and cut down a tree and decked it out and erected it set it up and they worshipped the idol that they had made and fashioned out of that tree.  They had turned their backs on God and turned back into idolatry.   Idols are dead they are dumb for they cannot hear, see, think or even talk and cannot give life to anyone who falls down before them and worships them.  There is only one true and living God and it is through his only begotten Son Jesus Christ that we have eternal life.  For Jesus is the Way, the Truth and the Life.  I decorate alot of things I have things hanging on my walls, over my windows on my floors in my kitchen at home but I do not worship those things for they are not God.  So it is with me when it comes to a Christmas tree.  I know the difference between the creation and my Creator and giver of life and I have no problem participating or celebrating Christmas.  Because I know that my Christmas tree is not an idol.  

[John Robinson]

Oh, goodie, another Christmas-is-demonic thread, and it's not even Easter yet (can't wait for the Easter-eggs-and-bunnies-are-from-hell screeds we'll be seeing then). Anybody else ever notice how close their thinking is to that of the Jehovah's Witnesses?

 

In all seriousness, legalism kills, folks. And it does it slowly.

[Qnts2]

Oh, goodie, another Christmas-is-demonic thread, and it's not even Easter yet (can't wait for the Easter-eggs-and-bunnies-are-from-hell screeds we'll be seeing then). Anybody else ever notice how close their thinking is to that of the Jehovah's Witnesses?

 

In all seriousness, legalism kills, folks. And it does it slowly.

 

I personally do not see Christmas as demonic, although I do not celebrate it. For me, Christmas is not commanded in scripture so would fall under the category of a tradition. Jesus did practice some Jewish traditions, but called other Jewish traditions wrong. The ones that were called bad were those who either violated the law, or were forced onto the people as requirements when they were actually only traditions. So the question on Christmas is, does it violate any law? Or is it forced on others as a requirement... for pleasing God... for salvation... or to be considered a good or solid believer?  

 

I do not see Easter as demonic, but do see it as somewhat messed up. I also do not celebrate Easter as it is a name and practice designed to eliminate anything related to Jews or Judaism in it's origin. Instead, I celebrate Passover and recognize the first fruits wave offering (resurrection). During the first Council of Nicea, there was a decree for all Christians to cease celebrating Passover (Pascha), but instead to celebrate Easter, so as not to be doing anything 'of the Jews'.  The date and timing of Easter was intentionally altered so it would be less likely to coincide with Passover, to keep the two separate. However, Easter actually celebrates the same thing as the First Fruit wave offering, with a different name, different date, and different traditions.    

 

I do not see 'not celebrating' Christmas or Easter as legalism.

 

The biggest issue I see in churches is the use of statues. Scripture say not to make a 'graven or molten image'. That is a statue. So, the manger scene is usually composed of graven or molten images. Both OT and NT speak against such things. If I walk into a Church and see any statues, I turn around and leave.  

[Atwood]

 

I believe in the eyes of God,there is only one church,that is church of Jesus Christ,i may be right or wrong,iam open to correction,A preacher said that because of church doctrine and tradition of men,many christian will go to hell fire,do you guys agree with him,some christian doesn't celebrate christmas,they said Jesus was not born on 25th, and beside it is not biblical,and Christ did not ask us to celebrate His birth,I want to ask is it a must that every christian must celebrate christmas,is celebrating christmas biblical or tradition of men.some church said that it is not good for a christian to drink alcohol,why some encourage it,because the first miracle Jesus perform on earth,was turning water to wine.what do you think.

Christmas is pagan and a lot of Christians know that yet they still celebrate it 

 

You believe that celebrating the Birth of the Lord is pagan? If so, how did you come to that conclusion?