jerryR34 Posted April 22, 2014 Group: Removed from Forums for Breaking Terms of Service Followers: 0 Topic Count: 18 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 588 Content Per Day: 0.15 Reputation: 82 Days Won: 2 Joined: 11/22/2013 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/12/1969 Author Share Posted April 22, 2014 thanks all for your responses...I think I will always have a hard time with this. kwikphilly, the thought of a baby grabbing my finger always makes me smile. we just got back from a visit to the grand kids 1 and 4 and your comment about grabbing fingers just makes me smile all over and inside One of the best experiences ever Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jerryR34 Posted April 22, 2014 Group: Removed from Forums for Breaking Terms of Service Followers: 0 Topic Count: 18 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 588 Content Per Day: 0.15 Reputation: 82 Days Won: 2 Joined: 11/22/2013 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/12/1969 Author Share Posted April 22, 2014 Are you serious? Yes. He died for us Ok, but what did He sacrifice? What did God sacrifice if Jesus is with God in heaven? There are many humans who have suffered more and for longer than Christ did...is His sacrifice that He had to become one of His lowly creation? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
other one Posted April 22, 2014 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 29 Topic Count: 597 Topics Per Day: 0.08 Content Count: 56,106 Content Per Day: 7.56 Reputation: 27,837 Days Won: 271 Joined: 12/29/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted April 22, 2014 Are you serious? Yes. He died for us Ok, but what did He sacrifice? What did God sacrifice if Jesus is with God in heaven? There are many humans who have suffered more and for longer than Christ did...is His sacrifice that He had to become one of His lowly creation? The main difference is that we deserve it for our sinful lives and he did not for he was not born under the curse of Adam and lived a sinless life... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donibm Posted April 22, 2014 Group: Removed from Forums for Breaking Terms of Service Followers: 0 Topic Count: 14 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 246 Content Per Day: 0.07 Reputation: 44 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/11/2014 Status: Offline Birthday: 06/09/1974 Share Posted April 22, 2014 If He is, He did not rise again for us, if not, He did not die for us. How do we explain this to non-Christians? I don't know if it needs explaining. Either they believe, or they do not believe. If they believe, then the Spirit is working on them. If they do not believe, well, who told us that WE have the power to give spritually blind men sight? Salvation is of the LORD, not us. Those who are spiritually blind are as blind as a real blind man. Can you say to a blind man, "see this" and expect him to see it? So, why do saints think that you can say to a spritually blind man "see this" and expect them to see it as you do. They cannot. And that is usually because their heart is against God anyway, and he Himself has set up that blindness, and will not remove it not matter how much effot you put in. Don't believe me? Stick around. I have 10 years of debates AND online forums. I've typed til my fingers hurt, practically begged and pleaded and seen people hardly be moved, neither with fear nor with love nor with Truth. It wasn't until now - lat year - that God showed me all about spiritual blindness and how it applies just as those who are physically blind. Blind means blind ... not "kinda hard of seeing." Dead means dead ... not injured or sick. Lost means lost ... not misguided or wayward. Scriptures call them BLIND Scriptures call them DEAD Scriptures call them LOST God is neither kidding nor playing games with the souls of men. He commands that ALL repent. Now, there is another flip to the coin. If they ae seeking truth, and their hearts are ripe, simply tell them the truth. Remember, you are not the authro of their salvation. And often times it's not your word that leads men to repentance or knowledge of truth, but a SERIES of conversations, messages, broadcasts, and personal convictions. You just plant, OR water, but it is the Spirit of God who causes it to grow. And if they are being called, and convicted, He will cause it to grow. So, simply tell the truth and they will find the rest themselves. Interstingly enough, I'm now at the point that I'm the one who now says that I've asked for things like, 10 years ago, and only NOW is god actually answering a lot of those things. ya'll reall need to stop thinking of God as a microwave when He is in fact, a slow simmer. Daniel went in at a teenager, but he was about 85 years of age when cast into the lions den. Did you know that? Hard to tell by just reading the Scriptures that so much time had passed. It was about 13 years after Saul became Paul when he started to preach. Can't really tell by casual reading of those Scriptures either. So my point remains - tell the Truth and if their heart is right, the answers will come. Sometimes quickly, sometimes very slowly. Often times by the time you are answered, its not even important (though you enjoy the revelation of the Truth). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alien224 Posted April 23, 2014 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 8 Topic Count: 82 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 1,762 Content Per Day: 0.38 Reputation: 869 Days Won: 2 Joined: 08/09/2011 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/24/1964 Share Posted April 23, 2014 Alive and well...you ask me how I know He lives, He lives within my heart! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RustyAngeL Posted April 23, 2014 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 23 Topic Count: 155 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 7,464 Content Per Day: 1.02 Reputation: 8,810 Days Won: 57 Joined: 03/30/2004 Status: Offline Birthday: 12/12/1952 Share Posted April 23, 2014 Alive and well...you ask me how I know He lives, He lives within my heart! I love that song.... He Lives! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a-seeker Posted April 23, 2014 Group: Removed from Forums for Breaking Terms of Service Followers: 0 Topic Count: 9 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 589 Content Per Day: 0.16 Reputation: 42 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/06/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted April 23, 2014 Are you serious? Yes. He died for us Ok, but what did He sacrifice? What did God sacrifice if Jesus is with God in heaven? There are many humans who have suffered more and for longer than Christ did...is His sacrifice that He had to become one of His lowly creation? That depends on what you mean by "suffered more and longer". If you mean only quantitatively, well, crucifixion is no picnic as I understand, and physical pain is hard to measure; but even so, the real agony was not physical. We do not know the psychological turmoil which engulfed Jesus when he cried "My God, My God, why have you forsaken me?" To be (or feel) abandoned by God, not because you sinned, but when (and even because) you did every thing right! Nor do we know what His soul experienced during those couple days before He was raised; perhaps the agony was done, "Into Your Hands I commend My Spirit", or perhaps it had just begun. As for your problem of proportion--what did God sacrifice (should we say lose?) if He got Jesus back? it seems you still are operating on the level that Jesus died in place of us. In most English translations you will see the phrase "died for us" here and there. But the Greek could easily be rendered "in our behalf" (that is, not in our stead, but with reference to us, or because of us) and this need not imply the propitiation theory. clb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OakWood Posted April 23, 2014 Group: Royal Member Followers: 7 Topic Count: 867 Topics Per Day: 0.24 Content Count: 7,331 Content Per Day: 2.00 Reputation: 2,860 Days Won: 31 Joined: 04/09/2014 Status: Offline Birthday: 04/28/1964 Share Posted April 23, 2014 If He is, He did not rise again for us, if not, He did not die for us. How do we explain this to non-Christians? Incarnate yes. As God no. Agreed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hippie333 Posted April 25, 2014 Group: Royal Member Followers: 15 Topic Count: 114 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 1,236 Content Per Day: 0.29 Reputation: 673 Days Won: 1 Joined: 10/24/2012 Status: Offline Birthday: 12/18/1970 Share Posted April 25, 2014 Are you serious? Yes. He died for us Ok, but what did He sacrifice? What did God sacrifice if Jesus is with God in heaven? There are many humans who have suffered more and for longer than Christ did...is His sacrifice that He had to become one of His lowly creation? That depends on what you mean by "suffered more and longer". If you mean only quantitatively, well, crucifixion is no picnic as I understand, and physical pain is hard to measure; but even so, the real agony was not physical. We do not know the psychological turmoil which engulfed Jesus when he cried "My God, My God, why have you forsaken me?" To be (or feel) abandoned by God, not because you sinned, but when (and even because) you did every thing right! Nor do we know what His soul experienced during those couple days before He was raised; perhaps the agony was done, "Into Your Hands I commend My Spirit", or perhaps it had just begun. As for your problem of proportion--what did God sacrifice (should we say lose?) if He got Jesus back? it seems you still are operating on the level that Jesus died in place of us. In most English translations you will see the phrase "died for us" here and there. But the Greek could easily be rendered "in our behalf" (that is, not in our stead, but with reference to us, or because of us) and this need not imply the propitiation theory. clb He was not crying out because he felt abandoned.....he was quoting Psalms 22 - which refers to the entire - crucifixion ......he cried out in John - "finished" - prophecy had been fulfilled. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve_S Posted April 25, 2014 Group: Servant Followers: 25 Topic Count: 275 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 5,208 Content Per Day: 1.00 Reputation: 1,893 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/02/2010 Status: Offline Share Posted April 25, 2014 I think this thread has ran it's course. Locked, I have also hidden a couple of comments that were uncalled for or questionable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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