The City of Babylon.

[other one]

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Link above is the only scenario I see plausible for a literal Babylon.

OOOOouuuuuuuuuuuu    you're gonna get in t r o u b l e....    posting video's outside of the video forum is a no no...

[Marilyn C]

Thanks inchrist for the video link. I have a couple here which show what it is like now.

 

Utube: - Documenting Babylon.  (World Monuments Fund)  

 

US Army Live. Babylon: Ancient History brought to life.

 

 

Also Paradox, Hi to you & nice to see a new `face` around here. The speaker on that video says that `Iraq,` as Babylon is a new view. Well for many it is but I was taught this 50 years ago when the Arabs were mainly desert people. So I personally do not speak from a `latest fad,` position. Just thought that point may help others know that reputable teachers have taught that the city of Babylon in Rev. 17 & 18 is the city of Babylon.

 

Good to see another Aussie here.

[Salty]

 

@Salty

 

 

Now as for God calling Jerusalem a 'harlot',

 

Thanks for the scriptures showing Jerusalems whoredom, however none of those scriptures proves or even shows Jerusalem enjoys the title “Mother of Whores”. I asked you to find me anywhere in scripture where Jerusalem enjoys such a title

The very fact you mentioned the following.....

 

 

 

Jerusalem actually was a pagan Canaanite city originally, a possession of the Jebusites before God gave Israel to conquer it

 

....actually proves Jerusalem is not the “Mother of Whores”. If Jerusalem is to be labelled Mother of Whores, then Jerusalem would have to be in the position to give birth to all the false religions that occurred in the beginning of History, clearly she didn’t....but Babylon did.

 

 

Babylon is mentioned about 300 times in the bible, second most mentioned city. I cannot accept that the last time Babylon is mentioned it is to be "spiritualized" to mean Jerusalem, it’s completely inconsistent, all in an attempt to force fit a theory. NO WHERE can you show me that Jerusalem has been called Babylon before or even referred spiritually to Babylon....the only thing you have shown me is Jerusalem being spiritually called Sodom and Egypt......still not Babylon is it?

 

Again I must point out there is not one example of ‘Babylon’ ever being a symbolic name for Israel

 

 

But all you've done with this post is turn to attempts to discredit, when you've already shown you have no leg to stand on with your theory. I really wonder what the unbelieving will come up with next to try and get God's Word away from pointing directly to the Jerusalem events involving the coming Antichrist and placing of the "abomination of desolation" in a temple there? You clearly show no interest in addressing those specific events of false worship in Jerusalem involving that coming Antichrist and the "abomination of desolation" Jesus warned of.

 

I see your misunderstanding or the need to adjust the calibration...No one disagrees that the Antichrist will make his way to Israel and sit in the temple declaring himself God in Jerusalem...The thing that we are discussing is “where” does the Antichrist come from? Where does his Kingdom come or arise from in order for him to arrive into Jerusalem?

 

Jerusalem is the destination, where was the departure?

 

 

 

I'm not the one denying what God's Word is teaching about the coming false worship in Jerusalem

 

Your changing the argument in addressing the destruction of Literal Babylon...History has clearly shown  Babylon under went  a slow, very slow....extremely slow decline, unlike its prophecies to be destroyed very suddenly like Sodom & Gomorrah, which by the way you helped me prove my point with the below quote of yours................

 

Since 1 Peter 5:13 was about a CHRISTIAN Church in the area of Babylon in Peter's days, how does that prove geographical Babylon was still an empire like in Daniel's days?

..................im not talking about its empire glory days, that faded away, however the point is to show Babylon still existed since Christian Church was in the area.

 

They shall not take from you a stone for a corner nor a stone for a foundation,

But how can that be when Hillah expanded and used some of the stones from ancient Babylon to its foundations?

 

I have shown you so many examples how these prophecies of the “destruction” of Babylon has still not yet come to pass. The “fall” of Babylon and the “destruction” of Babylon are completely two different meanings.

 

 

It would help if you studied more of your Bible history, for that happened upon geographical Babylon, which is why it has lain a waste in the desert for so many years. It involved Persian kings like Cyrus, Alexander of Macedonia, then divided up among Alexander's generals after his death, then transport of most of its inhabitants to Seleucia, then the Parthians conquest, which by that time it was barren

 

Even your very own quote above proves my point again...its fall was slow, which is the exact opposite of what the prophecies say.

 

"Babylon is suddenly fallen and destroyed" says the prophet in Jeremiah 51 v.8. And Isaiah 13 v.19 states, - And Babylon, the glory of kingdoms, the beauty of the Chaldeans' Excellency, shall be as when God overthrew Sodom & Gomorrah.

 

Even your own words shows Babylon  was not “suddenly” destroyed its fall took place over decades...Not exactly sudden is it? 

You must concede at this must point.

 

You can deny, deny, deny as much as you want, history says otherwise, therefore the prophecies relating to the destruction of Babylon is still yet to happen.

 

 

 

Well, you may deny all you want the Ezekiel 16 example of our Heavenly Father calling Jerusalem a harlot by committing adultery against Him with her lovers (idols, the pagan worship you were talking about). I showed you a view from our Heavenly Father's Own feelings He gave in that chapter, yet act like it never existed just so you can keep to what you believe instead.

 

What do you think today's Jerusalem will be like when the Antichrist shows up there and places the abomination idol in the temple there? And per Apostle Paul in 2 Thess.2:4 about that false one coming to show that he is God, and over ALL things that are even worshiped, what do you think that means for false religions in Jerusalem for that future time? That's exactly the state Jerusalem will be in for that time, like Babylon.

[Salty]

Salty

 

In all fairness no where have I denied God calling Jerusalem a Harlot, however you are battling to prove that Jerusalem throughout its history deserves the title "mother of prostitutes" Rev 17:5  of the entire earth. 

 

No it wont be like Babylon, it will be raped by Babylon for that short time

 

The orthodox unbelieving Jews in Jerusalem will agree... to the rule of the coming Antichrist over them, because they will instead believe he is The Messiah (as per 2 Thess.2:3-4; Matt.24:23-26). The majority of God's people in the whole world will be duped by that coming Antichrist, not just those in Jerusalem. If that coming event itself in Jerusalem is not a type of Babylon harlot event like our Heavenly Father pointed in Jerusalem's past history per Ezek.16, then I don't what else it is.

 

Ezekiel 8 & 9 also serves as another prophecy about that coming event in Jerusalem.

Edited July 6, 2014 by Salty

[Salty]

 

Salty

 

 

Well thats just your opinion, based on the fact that the Antichrist rules over Israel from the start of the 7 year Tribulation.

 

However I think that view is simply wrong, Israel will be at peace under the covenant which will be confirmed by the Antichrist, doesn’t need to rule over them at this point. Since this is more of a peace treaty.

 

The Jews will be practicing temple worship again after almost 2,000 years.

 

However in either case the beginning of the3 ½ years of the Tribulation, Israel is still not Babylon is it? In fact rather the opposite will occur, a huge spiritual revival to God will occur because of this.

 

After 3 ½ years the Antichrist will stop the sacrifice and offering in the temple declaring that he is God.  How will the Antichrist do this? .........By force 

 

 

I wish it were just my opinion, because I don't want any of God's people to fall to false worship of that coming pseudo-Christ. Yet that's exactly the subject Apostle Paul was talking about in 2 Thess.2:3-4 and 2 Corinthians 11 about the "another Jesus". It's also what Christ was warning about in the Matt.24:23-26 Scriptures specifically, and in Rev.13. So if you want to call all that my opinion, then go ahead, you're allowed to call it whatever you want (it's going to happen how God has said regardless of what we think).

 

Not just Israel will be at peace once that "league" of Dan.11 is made, but the whole world will be at peace. That is the timing which Paul warned about in 1 Thess.5, the time of "Peace and safety" the deceived will be saying. Christ warned about it too in Matt.24:6 with the end being a time opposite of war. The tribulation will be about spiritual warfare, the war for our souls.

 

As for the rule of the coming Antichrist, we cannot change what The LORD said about that. He will be given to reign over all peoples and nations for 42 months, per Rev.13. That is pointing to the last half of Daniel's symbolic "one week" (one seven).

 

For the first half of Daniel's symbolic "one week" the orthodox Jews in Jerusalem will be doing the Old Covenant style worship again with animal sacrifices. But not after the mid-point of the "one week", because the Antichrist is going to setup that "image of the beast" in false worship that will carry through the whole last half (1260 days, or 42 months, or 3 and 1/2 years, all equivalent times).

 

Are you thinking that those who will have done that Old Covenant worship with sacrifices and the Levitical priesthood again will be having some kind of 'revival' for Christ Jesus? No, they won't be, the kind of revival they will be doing will be for that fake Messiah which comes, which is what the role of the Antichrist is really about.

 

For the last half, the 1260 days, they won't be doing sacrifices at all, for they will bow in worship to that Messiah with wrongly thinking he is God's Anointed Saviour they've been waiting for all along! Problem is that pseudo-Christ or pseudo-Messiah will NOT... be the True Messiah (Jesus Christ). No orthodox Jew is ever going to worship Jesus of Nazareth as Messiah in that time.

 

Which of the Jews will NOT bow to that pseudo-Messiah at that time, but will instead wait on the True Messiah's coming after the 1260 days? Only those Jews in Christ Jesus. This is why our Lord Jesus specifically warned His about this coming event in Jerusalem, per those Matt.24:23-26 Scriptures. It's why Apostle Paul repeated our Lord's warning about it again in 2 Thess.2, and our Lord Jesus did again in Rev.13. Sadly, the orthodox Jews don't heed our New Testament Scripture, so the majority of those orthodox Jews will be prepared to fall away to that pseudo-Messiah (one of our jobs for today is to warn them of this coming event in Jerusalem).

 

How will the pseudo-Messiah accomplish his deception then? We were told that too, by those great signs, miracles, and wonders, he will work on earth, raining fire down from heaven even. The deceived will naturally think only God could do those miracles, and will believe he is God. The Scriptures is pointing one of the most powerful entities to ever walk this earth, besides our Lord Jesus. It will be on that kind of level of false working. This is why it's important to accept Christ's sealing on these things now, before it comes to pass.

[Marilyn C]

Very good inchrist, so true.

[Salty]

Well, I showed you how God called Jerusalem and her rulers and idol worship there in the past as a "harlot" (Ezek.16), and I think I also covered where He called her rulers as Sodom and Gomorrah because of falling to idol worship against Him (Isa.1:10). And the Rev.11:8 verse specifically calls Jerusalem spiritually Sodom and Egypt. So if you don't believe Jerusalem is the city of Revelation in false worship for end with the Babylon being used for it, fine, I don't require that you agree with me. But I think I've given plenty enough Scripture evidence to prove my points, regardless of anyone saying I've failed in that. As a matter of fact, a lot of rebuttals here to what I've supplied have mostly been 'opinion' without actually addressing those Scriptures I quoted. That's enough to show none here have yet disproven that the Babylon harlot of Revelation is a spiritual symbol used for Jerusalem in the last days when the Antichrist comes to reign there.

[Salty]

When Antichrist comes to Jerusalem to do his thing prior to Christ's coming, and then when Jesus comes and you discover who that Antichrist was, then you'll understand how God sees Jerusalem in that state of false worship as spiritual Babylon.

[OakWood]

When Antichrist comes to Jerusalem to do his thing prior to Christ's coming, and then when Jesus comes and you discover who that Antichrist was, then you'll understand how God sees Jerusalem in that state of false worship as spiritual Babylon.

 

I've read through most of this read and I can see no scriptural reason why Jerusalem will be Mystery Babylon. It makes no sense Biblically. In fact, the theory seems to conflict with scripture.

[Trinitron]

For futurists, 7 hills is 7 continents.  The whole world is the meaning.  You have the Goddess of Fornication Ishtar, the name in Babylon, or Libertas, her early Roman name, in English Liberty, overlooking the rulers of the world, or the U.N. and C.F.R. world headquarters.

 

 

For Preterists, just type 7 hill of Rome in google, there will be an answer right away.

Edited July 7, 2014 by Trinitron