Is Gog/Magog War=Armageddon War

[Spock]

I'm sure this has been discussed, but I couldn't find a thread so here goes.

As of today I believe they are DIFFERENT wars. I believe the Gog War will commence before the 70th week of Daniel. I believe the Armageddon War to be at the end of Daniels 70th week.

I do see similarities, most especially the fact that God is the reason for the victory and not man, but unless I can see more irrefutable evidence, that isn't enough for me to change my thoughts.

I open this thread to see if either I can be persuaded to believe otherwise, or to confirm what I presently believe.

Thanks to all who get involved in a Christ honoring discussion here

Spock out

[OakWood]

 I'm not sure, but to add to the confusion we hear Gog and Magog mentioned again after the Millennium. But of course, I believe that this is a different war altogether.

 

There are a number of similarities between the Ezekiel war and the Armageddon war of Revelation, but I'm quite stumped as to whether they are the same war or not. One thing that makes me think that they aren't is because during the build up to Ezekiel war, nations call them out "have you to come to plunder?" This suggests to me that there are free nations on Earth with free voices, therefore they will not be under the thumb of the Beast. Of course, this begs the question, "will the Beast literally rule the entire World, or is the World just a euphemism for the Middle East?"

[ARGOSY]

I'm pretty sure Gog and Armageddon are the same war:

 

Ezekiel 39:17 “Son of man, this is what the Sovereign Lord says: Call out to every kind of bird and all the wild animals: ‘Assemble and come together from all around to the sacrifice I am preparing for you, the great sacrifice on the mountains of Israel. There you will eat flesh and drink blood. 18 You will eat the flesh of mighty men and drink the blood of the princes of the earth as if they were rams and lambs, goats and bulls—all of them fattened animals from Bashan. 19 At the sacrifice I am preparing for you, you will eat fat till you are glutted and drink blood till you are drunk. 20 At my table you will eat your fill of horses and riders, mighty men and soldiers of every kind

 

Rev 19:17 And I saw an angel standing in the sun, who cried in a loud voice to all the birdsflying in midair, “Come, gather together for the great supper of God, 18 so that you may eat the flesh of kings, generals, and the mighty, of horses and their riders, and the flesh of all people, free and slave, great and small.”

 

Ezekiel 39:Surely in that day there shall be a great shaking in the land of Israel;

20 So that the fishes of the sea, and the fowls of the heaven, and the beasts of the field, and all creeping things that creep upon the earth, and all the men that are upon the face of the earth, shall shake at my presence, and the mountains shall be thrown down, and the steep places shall fall, and every wall shall fall to the ground.

 

Rev 16:16 Then they gathered the kings together to the place that in Hebrew is called Armageddon.

17 The seventh angel poured out his bowl into the air, and out of the temple came a loud voice from the throne, saying, “It is done!” 18 Then there came flashes of lightning, rumblings, peals of thunder and a severe earthquake. No earthquake like it has ever occurred since mankind has been on earth, so tremendous was the quake.

 

..

Both have a great earthquake, both are an attack mainly from the north and the east but including many other nations, both end with a great feast of birds, and the nations knowing the glory of God. Both involve the repentance of Israel after a time of shame in the land of Israel. Both involve a surprise attack.

The only good argument I've heard against it being the same war is that the Ezekiel attack is motivated by material greed. I don't see any contradiction there, Islam hates Israel and so are motivated by that hate, but to draw in other countries to help like Russia, they would have to have agreements how to share the spoils (Meditteranean gas fields, strategic oil pipelines etc.)

[ARGOSY]

 I'm not sure, but to add to the confusion we hear Gog and Magog mentioned again after the Millennium. But of course, I believe that this is a different war altogether.

 

There are a number of similarities between the Ezekiel war and the Armageddon war of Revelation, but I'm quite stumped as to whether they are the same war or not. One thing that makes me think that they aren't is because during the build up to Ezekiel war, nations call them out "have you to come to plunder?" This suggests to me that there are free nations on Earth with free voices, therefore they will not be under the thumb of the Beast. Of course, this begs the question, "will the Beast literally rule the entire World, or is the World just a euphemism for the Middle East?"

 

I have a different view on this. I believe Gog is not the beast, Gog represents an alliance between Turkey/Russia and Iran to have a surprise attack on the beast's headquarters in Israel. Yes the nations are free under the beast. It seems that the beast does not have full control , I believe it will be a loose control much like the United Nations, and mainly via religious manipulation. while the beast manipulates the world to persecute Christians, some countries co-operate well (goat nations) and some countries protect Christians to some extent (sheep nations). 

 

This view would explain why the antichrist in Daniel 11 does not control the Jordan/Saudi area, and also explains why he already owns Israel (the glorious land) and is surprised from reports from the north and the east. These 3 facts from Daniel 11 are difficult to explain with the traditional view that the antichrist attacks Israel at Armageddon. 

1) Why would he attack his own territory (the glorious land)

2) as you say, doesn't he rule the world? Why then is he attacking Israel?

3) Why is he surprised by reports from the north and the east if he is Gog attacking from the north and the east?

 

I therefore suggest the antichrist is an Israel based leader, he rules the world loosely , but only controls the direct territory around Israel (3 horns of the ten regions). He is suddenly attacked by Turkey, Russia and Iran and other countries, which is why he is alarmed by reports from the east and north in Daniel 11.

[Marilyn C]

Hi Spock,

 

Here are my thoughts on the 2 wars, which I believe are at either end of the Tribulation.

 

 

The two Wars ............ Ez. 38 & 39. Russian Federation.........................................Rev. 16: 14. World War. (Armageddon -> Valley of Jehoshaphat)

 

 

Who initiates................God brings Rosh etc to Israel`s Mountains...........................God brings all the nations to valley of Jehoshaphat. (Joel 3: 2)

 

Who comes against Israel....Russia, Federation, Iran, Libya & Ethiopia.................All Nations. (Rev. 16: 14)

 

Who is the Leader.......The Russian Leader.............................................................The Anti-Christ.

 

What happens.............5/6ths of army wiped out on mountains. (Ez. 39: 2 KJ)........All the armies of the world are destroyed. (Rev. 19: 20 & 21)

 

What happens after....Israel takes 7 years to burn the weapons............................Christ connects with Israel, judges the nations, then the Millennium.

 

 

I think that is quite clear as to the differences.    

[ARGOSY]

Hi Spock,

 

Here are my thoughts on the 2 wars, which I believe are at either end of the Tribulation.

 

Hi Marilyn,

 

I feel there are other ways to look at these two wars. Firstly as an ontroduction to Armageddon , we see some background to this final war in the description of the antichrist in Daniel 11. Here we see that the antichrist already owns the glorious land, so he has no need to invade a territory he already owns. We see he is alarmed by reports from the north and the east, which is the main direction of the Armageddon attack (Joel 2 describes the northern army and Revelation describes 200 000 000 soldiers from the east). These clues indicate that the antichrist is not the instigator in the Armageddon/Joel invasion from the north and the east , he is alarmed from these reports, and already owns the glorious land. With this background allow me to re-interpret your summary:

 

 

The two Wars ............ Ez. 38 & 39. Russian Federation with Turkey and "many nations with them)"......................Rev. 16: 14. World War.

Who initiates................God brings Rosh etc and "many nations with them"...........................God brings all the nations to valley of Jehoshaphat. (Joel 3: 2)

Who comes against Israel....Russia, Federation, Iran, Libya & Ethiopia.................All Nations. (Rev. 16: 14)

(there is no contradiction because the Ezekiel war in 38:6 and 38:9 and 39:4 refers to many nations and has no limit on the number of nations)

Who is the Leader of the attack.......The Russian Leader.........The northern army of Joel 2 (Russia is from the north)

In Ezekiel all the armies with Gog are destroyed..................All the armies of the world are destroyed. (Rev. 19: 20 & 21)  (no contradiction, all die in both wars)

Ezekiel 39:3 Then I will strike your bow from your left hand and make your arrows drop from your right hand. 4 On the mountains of Israel you will fall, you and all your troops and the nations with you.

What happens after....Israel takes 7 years to burn the weapons during the first years of the millenium.................Christ connects with Israel, judges the nations, then the Millennium.

(nothing in the text contradicts the weapons being burnt during the millenium)

 

Hopefully you will consider this other way of looking at the Ezekiel war. I strongly believe they are the same war, and believe the matching descriptions as per my earlier post add to this view.

[Spock]

Time out

I just want to interject this one thought.

I still am not convinced this kingdom rule of antichrist is GLOBAL. I still believe until convinced otherwise that it is REGIONAL, just like all the other beast kingdoms before this final one. Their rule was ONLY surrounding the Middle East that obviously included the land of Israel.

[Spock]

Where do people get Russia out of Ezekiel?

Rosh?????

Rosh has almost exclusively meant "chief" or "head" (not the name of a place)

However, maybe someone had an agenda for this line of thinking. (Russia =bad guys in Ezekiel)

Look at this if interested.

http://www.prophezine.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=93:mystery-of-rosh&catid=42&Itemid=118

[Marilyn C]

Hi Spock,

 

Regarding `Rosh,`  Russian people call themselves this. Also in Joel 2: 20 you will see this `northern army,` - from the northern quarters, far north. This is the same war as Ezekiel talks about.

 

Just reading Argosy`s comments & I would point out that Joel 2 war is not Armageddon but the Russian war as verse 2: 30 shows that more events have to happen before Armageddon in Ch. 3. 

[OneLight]

Before I read through the thread, Spock, if you believe the Gog/Magog was is before the 70th week, why then does John refer to it at the end of the Millennium?

Revelation 20:1-10

Satan Bound 1,000 Years
 

Then I saw an angel coming down from heaven, having the key to the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand. He laid hold of the dragon, that serpent of old, who is the Devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years; and he cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal on him, so that he should deceive the nations no more till the thousand years were finished. But after these things he must be released for a little while.

The Saints Reign with Christ 1,000 Years
 

And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was committed to them. Then I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God, who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received his mark on their foreheads or on their hands. And they lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years. But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection. Over such the second death has no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with Him a thousand years.

Satanic Rebellion Crushed
 

Now when the thousand years have expired, Satan will be released from his prison and will go out to deceive the nations which are in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle, whose number is as the sand of the sea. They went up on the breadth of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city. And fire came down from God out of heaven and devoured them. The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.