Saints and Christianity?

[RustyAngeL]

Blessings Amethyst

    Welcome to Worthy.......Jesus suffered & paid the ultimate sacrifice for you not only that You be forgiven & be Saved by the Grace of God through your faith in Him but also that through His flesh we can enter into the Holy of Holies & stand before the Throne of Grace without a high priest,reconciled,worthy,acceptable....to make our requests known to God as our Father,Abba  Jesus took your place so that you could go directly to our Father in His Name to pray,why look for any other way?Would you ask a neighbor to go to your own parent to ask for something?

     Jesus is our Great Mediator ,He makes continual intercession for us & He sits at the right hand of the Father,,,,he lives,He is our Living Redeemer & we serve the One True Living God........that is who hears & answers our prayers

                                                                                                                              With love-in Christ,Kwik

Amen my sweet sister.

[Guest]

I agree what has been said about worshiping them, but surely they are worth studying. Anyone sacrificing their life to be with God only and living in a remote place will no doubt establish rather a deep relationship with Him.

 

Personally, I find much of the literature dealing with the early church father (or saints) very inspiring and refreshing, whilst I do not feel any need to approach them with prayers or so. But many times their perceptions give good ideas for my own personal journey.

 

But first and above all we should place the God of the Holy Trinity. And the way to know who God is, is through Jesus Christ.

 

 

And The Way

 

Then said I, Lo, I come: in the volume of the book it is written of me, Psalms 40:7

 

To Know Jesus

 

Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God. Hebrews 10:7

 

Is To Abide In Him

 

Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.

 

I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing. John 15:4-5

[He giveth more grace]

We don't allow Catholic doctrine or teaching, but we also don't allow Catholic bashing. We love Catholic's and most importantly so does The Lord Jesus Christ.

I have to ask this question, why you want to talk to the Catholic Saints when Jesus is just waiting to hold a conversation with you.

I will give you these real stories from the Bible:

Women who chose to sit at Jesus feet the true person of our love and worship

Luke 7:36-38

36 And one of the Pharisees desired him that he would eat with him. And he went into the Pharisee's house, and sat down to meat.

37 And, behold, a woman in the city, which was a sinner, when she knew that Jesus sat at meat in the Pharisee's house, brought an alabaster box of ointment,

38 And stood at his feet behind him weeping, and began to wash his feet with tears, and did wipe them with the hairs of her head, and kissed his feet, and anointed them with the ointment.

That good part:

Luke 10:38-42

38 Now it came to pass, as they went, that he entered into a certain village: and a certain woman named Martha received him into her house.

39 And she had a sister called Mary, which also sat at Jesus' feet, and heard his word.

40 But Martha was cumbered about much serving, and came to him, and said, Lord, dost thou not care that my sister hath left me to serve alone? bid her therefore that she help me.

41 And Jesus answered and said unto her, Martha, Martha, thou art careful and troubled about many things:

42 But one thing is needful: and Mary hath chosen that good part, which shall not be taken away from her.

Amethyst, why don't you choose with Mary that good part.

[gray wolf]

I don't think any Catholics worship saints. They ask them to pray for them, similar in the way you would ask another Christian. Although I consider myself a Catholic, I do not practice this as I consider it communicating with the dead.

[OneLight]

I don't think any Catholics worship saints. They ask them to pray for them, similar in the way you would ask another Christian. Although I consider myself a Catholic, I do not practice this as I consider it communicating with the dead.

 Asking someone who is alive is one thing, asking a dead person to intercede for you is a complete different story.  I know many say that they are alive in spirit, so they are not dead.  They cannot converse with us, so they are indeed dead in body.  Nothing in scripture ever indicates that they can hear us if we address them.

 

As mentioned, why bother even trying to ask someone who is dead to pray when Jesus is waiting to hear from you Himself?

[ravindran]

I'm a Christian. I would love to be able to study/worship/pray to Saints though.

 

A few years back I read that Worshipping Saints is Idol Worship. (???)

 

I've also heard that only Catholics are allowed to pray to/worship Saints.

 

On two positive ideas I've heard about Saints though, are that 1. Saints can be looked at as our friends. and 2. The goal of every Catholic is to become a Saint.

 

(I hope it's okay to post things about Catholicism)

I am new to this forum.. I am a Protestant believer.. We don't believe in praying to saints.. Jesus is the only High Priest for us today.. He is the only one who can talk on our behalf.. Satan is the accuser. Christ will speak on behalf for us.. No one else in between..

[gray wolf]

Actually Scripture does describe one instance of communication with a dead person, but it was quite singular. 1 Samuel 28

[OneLight]

And that did not turn out well at all, did it!  1 Samuel 28

[Defending the Name]

I'm a Christian. I would love to be able to study/worship/pray to Saints though.

A few years back I read that Worshipping Saints is Idol Worship. (???)

I've also heard that only Catholics are allowed to pray to/worship Saints.

On two positive ideas I've heard about Saints though, are that 1. Saints can be looked at as our friends. and 2. The goal of every Catholic is to become a Saint.

(I hope it's okay to post things about Catholicism)

In Jewish or Semitic culture to ask someone to do something on your behalf is to ask it in their name. Let us say for example a catholic asking a Saint like Mary, they would ask in her name, or if they asked let us say Saint George, then they are asking in his name.

A persons name is his honour and asking someone in their name, you are honouring them. The question then becomes, at which point does honouring a created being become worship?

When you in your heart venerate that name, then it becomes internalised in your being and therefore is an abominable form of worship, because you as a believer are projecting yourself to that person as if your whole life depended on them.

The question is, can that person that you depend on by honouring their name, save you?

I believe that most rational people would say they can not save you.

So what is the big deal about asking someone that does not have the authority to save you, do you go indirectly to the source of life and ask one of his servants, or do you go directly to the source of life and ask him yourself.

What did The Lord say?

John 14:13

And I will do whatever you ask in my name, so that the Father may be glorified in the Son.

Again the use of a persons name is to honour that person, but The Lord here is demanding that you ask him directly.

There is no back door or side door in asking The Lord. If you are sincere you need to ask him directly for he has commanded you.

Then Jesus repeats the instruction again:

John 14:14

You may ask me for anything in my name, and I will do it.

Then following this very important instruction he declares the following:

John 14:15

15“If you love me, keep my commands

So it is a commandment to ask him and if you thought it was optional, think again. There is no asking him using another name other than his name. According to this statement if a person asks Saint Mary, then they are disobeying Christ's commands.

If you loved someone so much, do you send someone else to ask them on your behalf or is that person that you want to tell, how much you love, requires that you tell them directly yourself. How embarrassing it would be to send someone else on your behalf, it would look like a half concerted effort and lacking in sincerity.

Jesus said to use his name and if you truly love him you would obey his commands, for it is that simple brothers and sisters.

Luke 11:9-13

9“So I say to you: Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you. 10For everyone who asks receives; the one who seeks finds; and to the one who knocks, the door will be opened.

11“Which of you fathers, if your son asks forf a fish, will give him a snake instead? 12Or if he asks for an egg, will give him a scorpion? 13If you then, though you are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father in heaven give the Holy Spirit to those who ask him!”

You are required to ask him, so that he through his Holy Spirit can led you into all truth and to provide for your needs as his child,

So go to him directly.

Edited September 15, 2014 by Defending the Name

[Guest Judas Machabeus]

The issue of whether or not saint at dead or not boils down to this. Do you believe once you are dead it's over?? That seems to be the opinion here.

Moses and Elijah apaered to Jesus in the garden and one of the apostles asked if he should make up 3 tents. Why do dead people need tents?

As for hearing prayers offered up to heaven:

8And when he had taken the scroll, the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders fell down before the Lamb, each holding a harp, and with golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints;

Our prayers are heard and offered up to Jesus.

Yes salvation only comes from Jesus, and it is wrong to worship saints. But to ask intercession is not wrong.

And one closing point. We will be more alive in heaven than we can ever be here on earth.