Tattoos

[Joshua-777]

 

I have a question. I have a foot long scorpion on my back that relates to a horoscope and a worldly band name I got before i was really walking with the Lord. I want to get a cross covering the band name and crushing the head of the scorpion an get the verse Luke 10:18 "And He said to them, “I saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven. 19 Behold, I give you the authority to trample on serpents and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy, and nothing shall by any means hurt you."

So for those against tattoos, would it be sin to cover up something satanic with a tattoo that represents my walk with the Lord?

 

you also have the option of having the old tat removed.  I think they can do it now with a laser.  If it was something you put on before you became a Christian, I would not worry about it. 

 

True, but majorly expensive, especially for the size of the tattoo on my back. It would be way cheaper to get it covered. I'm not worried about it. I do alot of street ministry and I see the Lord touch and bless a lot of people who are tattooed and pierced up. I personally have no problem with them.

[Sevenseas]

Sorry, but that's a bunch of malarkey Butero.  You have had that conversation with most of us here on Worthy and you know very well

that those of us who disagree with your divided stance on the law,  ie....most of us, have denied your (apparent) belief that we think it is ok to continue to sin.

 

I don't care who teaches that and I don't care who believes that.  It is nonsense and not even a logical conclusion taking into account the teaching in the

New Testament...which by the way, is actually the instruction that covers both the law and the fact that only through Christ Jesus can we receive forgiveness

for our sins and only through the Spirit of God can we have a new heart that enables to obey...not because we fear hell, but because we WANT to please God.

 

That, is the new heart He promises.

 

It is just so tiring that this subject keeps coming up with the arguement that those who say we are not under law believe it is ok to sin or that

anyone would actually present that as an arguement.

 

You may actually believe that, but that is not how we live.

 

And for the record, I don't think we should get tatoos, but not because we are observing the law given to Moses.

 

 

I think that if God disapproved of tatoos...or marking yourself for the dead (which was the inspiration behind the markings if one studies up on it) is probably a

good place to start if one wonders if God says...oh sure go ahead and put ink all over that nice skin I covered you in.

 

On the other hand, I don't think you go to hell , don't pass go or become lost if you do get a tatoo and especially not if you had it before you were saved.

 

The problem, as I see it, are people who dump the old and new testaments into the same pot, stir and cook on personal opinion until they have a recipe for

personal interpretation and then want to share that because it suits their own taste buds.  

[Littlelambseativy]

Just remember the skin covering your body is the largest ORGAN of your body. You would not do harm to another organ would you??

And the poisin in some inks and dyes...yeach!!

[LadyKay]

 

but we are still to keep the moral laws.

Okay.....so what is immoral about tattoos? Unless of cores you tattoo bad words or  a naked women ect ect. I think that could be immoral. But I don't think that a tattoo in and of itself is immoral.

 

 

The Bible makes it clear that printing marks on one's body is wrong.

 I see this as an example of if "I don't like it I am going to find something in the Bible that shows that it is wrong. " 

 

Should we also forbid women who have just given birth from going to church for 30 days? Because a cording to the Law that is what must to be done. See all the law or none at all.

 

After waiting thirty-three days, she will be purified from the bleeding of childbirth. During this time of purification, she must not touch anything that is set apart as holy. And she must not enter the sanctuary until her time of purification is over.  Leviticus 12:4

[Sevenseas]

You can't make comparisons like that ladykay.  We are told in the NT that our bodies are vessels for the Holy Spirit.

 

Are you able to envision that in context and go forward?

 

One can argue for eternity and a day regarding the law.....if a person can study the NT in keeping with contextual references from the OT that have a

bearing on whatever subject is in question they are far more likely to come to an agreeable answer that they should first and foremost, apply to themself

 

Pulling any old reference from the OT law for its 'shock' value does not really make a case IMO

[LadyKay]

 

You can't make comparisons like that ladykay.  We are told in the NT that our bodies are vessels for the Holy Spirit.

 

This is true. Though I do not see what that has to do with getting a tattoo. Maybe some people want to decorate their vessels. Should we also not wear make up, and ear rings? How about a nose ring? Can I have purple hair? I like purple hair.

 

 

Pulling any old reference from the OT law for its 'shock' value does not really make a case IMO

So why is it must to follow one part of the law and not the other?

[LadyKay]

You know why this topic gets under my skin, so to speak. It is because I do not like holier than thou people looking at people they know nothing about, and judging their spiritual life based on what they look like, what they are wearing  to church, or if they have tattoos.

[Joshua-777]

I would suggest that rather than changing a tattoo, get it removed.  I would save up enough to get it done. 

 

As far as not being under the law goes, that is nonsense.  We are not required to keep the ceremonial laws or those dealing with Israel's separation from the heathen nations, but we are still to keep the moral laws.  If that is not the case, then we are free to live any way we desire.  We can steal, kill, use God's name in vain, anything, as those are all from the law of Moses.  The Bible makes it clear that printing marks on one's body is wrong.  I don't see a valid comparison with nail polish, as LadyK used, because we are not prohibited from painting our nails.  It all comes down to what one believes that command in Leviticus means.  If it means no marks period, as I believe it does, then all tattoos are sinful.  If it only means as part of worship to idol gods, then it doesn't apply.  The problem is, there is no way to be sure.  I also believe that the tattoo epidemic is demon inspired to change our natural God given image.  I believe God revealed that to me, but since that is extra-Biblical, you are certainly free to take issue with it.  I am just telling you what I believe personally. 

But we are under a new law, a law greater than just the moral laws, it's to love others as He loved us.

John 13:34 A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another; as I have loved you, that you also love one another. 35 By this all will know that you are My disciples, if you have love for one another.”

Jesus obeyed His Fathers commands so we could obey His.

John 15:10 If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love, just as I have kept My Father’s commandments and abide in His love.

11 “These things I have spoken to you, that My joy may remain in you, and that your joy may be full. 12 This is My commandment, that you love one another as I have loved you.

His commandment is to believe in Jesus and love one another.,

1 John 3:23 And this is His commandment: that we should believe on the name of His Son Jesus Christ and love one another, as He gave us commandment.

We are under a law, but it's the perfect law of liberty. There was a change of law because Jesus was from a different priesthood.

Hebrews 7:12 For the priesthood being changed, of necessity there is also a change of the law.

And where there's a new law, there is annulling of the old, making the old obsolete.

Hebrews 7:18 For on the one hand there is an annulling of the former commandment because of its weakness and unprofitableness, 19 for the law made nothing perfect; on the other hand, there is the bringing in of a better hope, through which we draw near to God.

Hebrews 8:13 In that He says, “A new covenant,” He has made the first obsolete. Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.

Now, the moral law is fulfilled is love they neighbor as thyself. We are not under the 10 commandments, because one commandment that fulfills them all. Living out this commandment to love as Jesus loves us and we will live out the moral law from the heart.

Romans 13:8 Owe no one anything except to love one another, for he who loves another has fulfilled the law. 9 For the commandments, “You shall not commit adultery,” “You shall not murder,” “You shall not steal,” “You shall not bear false witness,” “You shall not covet,” and if there is any other commandment, are all summed up in this saying, namely, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” 10 Love does no harm to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.

It's radical love that Jesus laid His life down for us, and we also ought to lay our lives down for one another. This is His commandment, and this command can't be faked. God took the law and made it a heart issue. We could do the moral law and live by it, and be twisted in our hearts. The law of Jesus brings the moral law to the heart, which can only be lived out in relationship with Him.

Romans 7:4Therefore, my brethren, you also have become dead to the law through the body of Christ, that you may be married to another—to Him who was raised from the dead, that we should bear fruit to God.

 

[LadyKay]

Oh lots of things to address here let me see where to start:

 

 

One is that we are still required to obey it, at least portions of it.

 

Well just what portion of it are we required to obey? And how does one know the answer to that?

 

 

The outward is often times a reflection of the heart.

I disagree with is based on myself. I like to dress is black. But my heart it not black. I have a seen a lot of nicely, neatly dressed people who act as though they are heartless in the things they say and do to others.

 

 

Do you really believe what you just said?

Yes. I do like purple hair.

 

 

Perhaps you do, since you once said you like Boy George and never said whether or not you liked his image.

I still like Boy George. I like that he was not afraid to be different. Because I am different even if I don't mean to be. I admire those who have to guts to be different. So yeah I like Boy George.

 

 

Regardless, is it really wrong to judge someone by their outward appearance?

Yeah, I think it is. When we catch ourselves doing that we should stop. You condemned me for wearing jeans remember. But I tell you I am follower of Christ even if you think I am a sinner for wearing jeans.

 

 

Have you never looked at a man or woman that were very immodest and thought it was wrong, especially in church?

That would all depend on what one considers immodest. I don't think I have ever seen immodest in church. But then someone my  think that wearing shorts and a t-shirt is immodest. If so there could be people thinking I am an immodest person because I am dressed in shorts and a t-shirt. Even though I was a virgin when I got married and have only ever been with my husband. Yet if someone thinks that shorts and a t-shirt our immodest, that would be their judgment call on me. But anyway, I see people who dress with very little clothing as looking"tacky". They may have no clue they are looking immodest to someone else.

 

 

There was a thread not too long back about "Christian nudists."  Are you ok with that?

I must of missed that one. But I do not see nudity as the same as sex. But then I tend to think differently then others. I say if is not your thing then leave it alone. God will work it out if it needs to be worked out.

 

 

If we really aren't to judge based on outward appearance, then we can't judge anyone, period.  It doesn't just stop with tattoos or clothing styles.

I think this is true. We can not judge. We do not know how God is working in someone's life or where a person is with their walk with Christ. There are somethings in people's life that is just none of our business.

[Guest]

God's

 

That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace

 

in his kindness toward us

 

through Christ Jesus. Ephesians 2:7

 

Grace

 

For by grace are ye saved through faith;

 

and that not of yourselves:

 

it is the gift of God:

 

Not of works,

 

lest any man should boast. Ephesians 2:8-9

 

~

 

Why not love others

 

and keep God's laws? 

 

Why is one exclusive to the other?

 

 

Law  

 

Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law:

 

that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.

 

Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight:

 

for by the law is the knowledge of sin. Romans 3:19-29

 

Keeping

 

For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

 

Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

 

 

Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood,

 

to declare his righteousness

 

for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;

 

 

To declare,

 

I say, at this time his righteousness:

 

that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.

 

 

Where is boasting then?

 

It is excluded.

 

 

By what law? 

 

of works?

 

Nay:

 

but by the law of faith.

 

 

Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law. Romans 3:23-28

 

Or Abiding

 

Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you.

 

Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself,

 

except it abide in the vine;

 

no more can ye,

 

except ye abide in me. John 15:3-4

 

In

 

If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love;

 

even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.

 

These things have I spoken unto you,

 

that my joy might remain in you,

 

and that your joy

 

might be full. John 15:10-11

 

Love

 

This is my commandment, That ye love one another,

 

as I have loved you. John 15:12