2nd Thessalonians 2:11 - when exactly?

[JohnD]

2 Thessalonians 2:11 (KJV)
11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:

 

The NKJV says "the lie." With similar language in:

 

Romans 1:24-25 (NKJV)
24 Therefore God also gave them up to uncleanness, in the lusts of their hearts, to dishonor their bodies among themselves,
25 who exchanged the truth of God for the lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen.

 

When?

 

Daniel 9:27 (KJV)
27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

 

Revelation 13:1-4 (KJV)
1 And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.
2 And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority.
3 And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast.
4 And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?

 

"The covenant" is what Daniel refers to elsewhere in his prophetic book as the holy covenant.

 

This is no simple peace treaty, but the implementation of the Jewish Old Covenant upon the many (the world). 

 

Certain hidden prophecies point out how the whole world will flow to Jerusalem...(Isaiah 2, which when you get past what appears to be a blessing makes the whole chapter a judgment and what sounded good evidently a biblical record of what will be said but is not actually true). Take for example:

 

Zechariah 8:23 (KJV)
23 Thus saith the LORD of hosts; In those days it shall come to pass, that ten men shall take hold out of all languages of the nations, even shall take hold of the skirt of him that is a Jew, saying, We will go with you: for we have heard that God is with you.

 

 

These are the ten kings in Revelation 12:3, 13:1, 17:3, 17:7, 17:12, and 17:16.

 

Matthew 24:20 warns of flight that would be hindered by sabbath observance (which has never hindered fight or flight in all Jewish history). The only way this would be a problem is if in the holy land the Jews are in power and see nothing wrong with the beast ascending to the temple. Then they would enforce sabbath law since to them nothing is wrong.

 

This means the man has to be Jewish, and believed to be the promised messiah and for the temple to even stand means the Islamic temples are either removed or boarded up with wall around them to separate the "undefiled" Jewish Temple (akin to how they now fudge a bit on ridding their homes of leaven during holidays by spreading foil over it sometimes whole kitchens...).

 

You must ask yourself, what would so convince the entire world that this guy is the promised messiah and that they must all abandon their religions and atheism and fall in step with the Jewish people? The man who comes back from the dead claiming to be the messiah... who is able to prove scientifically he is who he says he is (a man resurrected after 2000 years in the grave). Through DNA or blood he can show he was alive 2000 years ago. He will be so convincing that even the very elect would believe him if that were possible (Matthew 24:24).  Does that mean we are special? Well only in that we are indweeled by the Spirit of God who alone prevents us from caving into this man of lawlessness.

 

The man of lawlessness

 

2 Thessalonians 2:1-11 (KJV)
1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?
6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.
7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.
8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:

 

John 17:12 (KJV)
12 While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.

 

Luke 22:1-3 (KJV)
1 Now the feast of unleavened bread drew nigh, which is called the Passover.
2 And the chief priests and scribes sought how they might kill him; for they feared the people.
3 Then entered Satan into Judas surnamed Iscariot, being of the number of the twelve.

 

John 13:21 (KJV)
21 When Jesus had thus said, he was troubled in spirit, and testified, and said, Verily, verily, I say unto you, that one of you shall betray me.

 

John 13:25-27 (KJV)
25 He then lying on Jesus’ breast saith unto him, Lord, who is it?
26 Jesus answered, He it is, to whom I shall give a sop, when I have dipped it. And when he had dipped the sop, he gave it to Judas Iscariot, the son of Simon.
27 And after the sop Satan entered into him. Then said Jesus unto him, That thou doest, do quickly.

 

Acts 1:25 (KJV)
25 That he may take part of this ministry and apostleship, from which Judas by transgression fell, that he might go to his own place.
 

Revelation 20:1-3 (KJV)
1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.
 

Isaiah 14:12-20 (KJV)
12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:
14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.
15 Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.
16 They that see thee shall narrowly look upon thee, and consider thee, saying, Is this the man that made the earth to tremble, that did shake kingdoms;
17 That made the world as a wilderness, and destroyed the cities thereof; that opened not the house of his prisoners?
18 All the kings of the nations, even all of them, lie in glory, every one in his own house.
19 But thou art cast out of thy grave like an abominable branch, and as the raiment of those that are slain, thrust through with a sword, that go down to the stones of the pit; as a carcase trodden under feet.
20 Thou shalt not be joined with them in burial, because thou hast destroyed thy land, and slain thy people: the seed of evildoers shall never be renowned.

 

Yes, but WHEN???

 

Daniel 12:11-12 (KJV)
11 And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.
12 Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days.

 

The 70th week of Daniel is framed here in this text. Seven years is 2520 days in the prophetic calendar (which was used to pin point the time of Christ's first advent in Daniel 9:24-26). Sir Robert Anderson was kinighted in the British court for discovering this 360 day prophetic year that did not adopt the 365.25 solar year or even the leap months of the Jewish calendar.

 

The interesting thing about this time frame (the 70th week of Daniel) is that we will not even know when it actually started until the temple sacrifices are abated in the middle of the 70th week. So, as Jesus said we must know the times and the seasons while we cannot know the day or the hour of his return.

 

I have put this in a simple chart.

 

 

Which also includes the rapture time as PRE Great Tribulation, Post believer's tribulation (Revelation 12:17 - Revelation 13:10 and what the mark is really for to track down and kill the one people who will not accept it... Christians) MID 70th Week of Daniel. This is not traditional mid trib eschatology since mid tribe believes in one 7 year tribulation when according to scriptures there will be 2 / 3.5 year tribulations... a poin the Bible makes repeatedly with the 42 months, 1260 days and time + times + 1/2 a time all = 3.5 years. Both happen in a 7 year time frame but are not themselves 7 years.

 

So... when will be dtermined only after day 1230 of the 70th week of Daniel comes to pass and we back date  the beginning of the time. 

[Pamelasv]

Is there not a differnce between the end times and the last days?  I know the last days are after Christ.  So I assumed the end times were later.  Yeah, I think I'm right.

[wingnut-]

Is there not a differnce between the end times and the last days?  I know the last days are after Christ.  So I assumed the end times were later.  Yeah, I think I'm right.

 

In this instance, Paul makes it clear that he is discussing the end times when you read the entire context of the chapter.

 

II Thessalonians 2 Concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered to him, we ask you, brothers and sisters, ² not to become easily unsettled or alarmed by the teaching allegedly from us—whether by a prophecy or by word of mouth or by letter—asserting that the day of the Lord has already come. ³ Don’t let anyone deceive you in any way, for that day will not come until the rebellion occurs and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the man doomed to destruction. ⁴ He will oppose and will exalt himself over everything that is called God or is worshiped, so that he sets himself up in God’s temple, proclaiming himself to be God.

[Augustine17]

If you look around the illusion is already there. Lots of false prophets and unrighteous teachings done in the name of God are around, and that is the illusion. End times could refer to the very end or the time span after the Death/Resurrection of Jesus Christ. Prosperity gospel which teaches it's followers to love money and license to heaven doctrine which teaches anyone who believes Jesus exists is saved, when even demons believe he exists. FLDS and some other stuff is there too that teach bad doctrine. People fall for it because they feel comfortable in it, even if it isn't right. So they want to believe they can go to heaven without really doing anything, or that they can be happy forever here and in the next life.

 

"Blessed are those who mourn, for they shall be comforted. - Matthew 5:4

 

But woe unto you that are rich! for ye have received your consolation. - Luke 6:24

 

Certain people who call themselves believers do things like hate each other, covet money, are materialistic, slander, gossip etc. and then worship God with tongue in the church/synagogue/temple, thinking that in that way they could go to heaven and are saved blessed, and that all is well when they follow heresy.

 

'So because you are lukewarm, and neither hot nor cold, I will spit you out of My mouth. 17'Because you say, "I am rich, and have become wealthy, and have need of nothing," and you do not know that you are wretched and miserable and poor and blind and naked,18I advise you to buy from Me gold refined by fire so that you may become rich, and white garments so that you may clothe yourself, and that the shame of your nakedness will not be revealed; and eye salve to anoint your eyes so that you may see.… - Revelations 3:16-18

 

There is a way which seems right to a man, But its end is the way of death.  - Proverbs 14:12

 

in order that they all may be judged who did not believe the truth, but took pleasure in wickedness. - 2 Thessalonians 2:12