Rapture Question

[sojourner4Christ]

shiloh357 said:

 

So is it a sin to call myself a Christian?  I just want an  yes or no.

 

That’s an integral part of the problem i.e. “I just want...”

 

Don't launch into your usual diatribe about how "worldly" a title it is.

 

Don’t freak out; I won’t “launch.”

 

Just tell me if it is a sin or not, in your opinion.

 

My opinion is no better than anyone’s.  Rather, the body of Christ deals in truth -- not opinions.

 

In any case, you certainly have the liberty to appropriate any label you “want.”

 

So would most of the members here on Worthy.

 

I can’t know that with certainty; neither can you.

 

Can you say if they are part of the few or not?

 

ROFL! You’re joking, right?

Edited March 29, 2015 by sojourner4Christ

[OneLight]

shiloh357 said:

 

So is it a sin to call myself a Christian?  I just want an  yes or no.

 

That’s an integral part of the problem i.e. “I just want...”

 

Don't launch into your usual diatribe about how "worldly" a title it is.

 

Don’t freak out; I won’t “launch.”

 

Just tell me if it is a sin or not, in your opinion.

 

My opinion is no better than anyone’s.  Rather, the body of Christ deals in truth -- not opinions.

 

In any case, you certainly have the liberty to appropriate any label you “want.”

 

So would most of the members here on Worthy.

 

I can’t know that with certainty; neither can you.

 

Can you say if they are part of the few or not?

 

ROFL! You’re joking, right?

 

Nobody is joking here.  You make a lot of criticizing claims about being called a Christian and that many will not make it.  That is a very serious declaration you made and we all are very serious about your words.

[sojourner4Christ]

Nobody is joking here.  You make a lot of criticizing claims about being called a Christian...

I have not “criticized.”  The scriptural explanation for why I do not appropriate the world's label of "Christian" was previously posted

 

...and that many will not make it.

Your argument is not with me.  Again, the scripture that declares it, as I previously posted is:

 

Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it. (Mat. 7:13-14)

 

What else do you wish to know?  For Tinky's sake, perhaps we should start another thread on The Power of Words.

[OneLight]

 

Nobody is joking here.  You make a lot of criticizing claims about being called a Christian...

I have not “criticized.”  The scriptural explanation for why I do not appropriate the world's label of "Christian" was previously posted

 

 

 

...and that many will not make it.

Your argument is not with me.  Again, the scripture that declares it, as I previously posted is:

 

Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it. (Mat. 7:13-14)

 

What else do you wish to know?  For Tinky's sake, perhaps we should start another thread on The Power of Words.

 

 

You have made it very clear on this site how you feel.  Here is one post:

 

Now, to continue with that thought i.e. words matter, I do not call myself a Christian, either, and for the same reason.  I do not claim that worldly title.  Such labels are the way that the world makes its attachment to you. Hitler claimed to be “Christian,” George Bush claims to be “Christian,” etc. etc.

 

The term 'Christian' was used to describe a follower of Christ in terms of the world, from the world’s point of view. The pagans at Antioch called the apostles "Christians" first (Acts 11:26; 26:28) and used it derogatorily because the apostles didn’t follow the commercial world of the pagans. "Christian" is an adjective, not a noun. The substance is not in the word "Christian", the substance is in the heart of the man it is attempting to describe, and which the pagan user cannot see.

Christ never called himself a Christian, Christ never called his followers Christians. The apostles never called each other Christians. Christ never used an adjective to describe himself. So how are we to identify ourselves then? The disciples called each other, "brethren", "disciples", "apostles", "servants", "believers", "followers", "the faithful", "the elect", "the called", and "saints." We can also identify ourselves as "bondservants" of Christ.

 

Some of you won’t be able to get past your conditioning to accept that.  So be it.  If you believe I am in error, prove it, with scripture.  Otherwise, hold your peace.

 

...

We need to drop all the worldly labels and committees and bust out our respective knee pads before the King of glory.  He stands by, ready and able; only he can sort this out for you.  Are you ready to lay it all out before him and him alone?

 

I have also others that have been hidden where you rant on about the title of Christian.

 

As a Servant (administrator) I do and will continue to approach members as they decide to condemn people who are members of this site because of their personal beliefs.  You are free to inform others of what yo believe, but you are not free to claim that anyone who calls themselves a Christian is or is not a Christian.  That job belongs to Jesus.  Below is one statement you made that was not taken as if you were just relying on scripture, but being judgmental.  Perhaps, next time when you want to make a claim, include scripture to clarify that you are not playing the role that is not yours to play.  I also quoted my full post so everyone will know what I said, not just a chosen part of my statement.

 

Those who are His will do as He directs. We do lay down our lives so God can live in and through us for the benefit of the lost. You should pay more attention to the "why we live for Christ" and not so much as the false reasons you stated.

 

...the truth is that there is only a miniscule, a remnant, that is truly born again in Jesus Christ.  Tragically, many who appropriate the worldly label of “Christian” are not born again, and the majority are on the broad path to destruction.   There is no warrant to attempt to skew that statistic in favor of us, the readers, simply because this would be a ”Christian” site.

God’s judgment is upon USA Inc.  Many are about to be destroyed, but not because “Those who are His [are doing as] He directs...”

 

Please keep in mind that this site is part of a larger ministry.  We just happen to have an online forum.  We are not like the vast majority of other sites that call themselves Christian, nor are we like Facebook, Google Groups or Yahoo where you are free to voice any point you wish.  We monitor as best we can and hold everyone to the same Terms of Service.  If you happened to skip over reading it when requesting membership, it would be best for you to read what you agreed to.  We also have a Statement of Faith you may want to become familiar with.

[Guest shiloh357]

You didn't answer the question, sojourner.   Is it a sin to call one's self a Christian?  yes or no?

[sojourner4Christ]

You have made it very clear on this site how you feel.  Here is one post...

Thank you.  I am encouraged that I came across as “very clear.”

 

I have also others that have been hidden where you rant on about the title of Christian.

“Rant on”???  That’s your opinion; in fact, that‘s your presumption. And it is a sin to deal presumptuously with others.

 

"But the soul that doeth ought presumptuously, whether he be born in the land, or a stranger, the same reproacheth the LORD; and that soul shall be cut off from among his people." - Num. 15:30

 

 "And all the people shall hear, and fear, and do no more presumptuously." - Deu. 17:13

 

 "Keep back thy servant also from presumptuous sins; let them not have dominion over me: then shall I be upright, and I shall be innocent from the great transgression." - Psa. 19:13

 

Presumptions or accusations are based on natural reason (unless it's an unrebuttable presumption where, in fact, you have committed evil, and there's a witness).

 

Presumptions are something that the natural man has created. The natural man comes up with a presumption and they cast a burden on you to prove otherwise.

 

Another, more typical example, of a presumptuous question would be something like, "Have you beaten your wife lately?" Either a "yes" or "no" answer is bad. This question "presumes" you have beaten your wife already. If you answer "yes," you admit guilt. If you answer "No," you still admit to having beat your wife, just not lately. Their presumptuous questions steer your mind to the answers they want. In scripture, you don't find where God asks a leading question or makes a leading statement.

 

The only reason for secrecy is to hide evil, so please, if you have an issue with ANY of my posts (“hidden” or otherwise), then bring it out into the light or hold your peace.

 

"He that answereth a matter before he heareth it, it is folly and shame unto him." - Pro. 18:13

 

As a Servant (administrator) I do and will continue to approach members as they decide to condemn people who are members of this site because of their personal beliefs.

 

I have not “decided to condemn people...,” and you have not proven that I have.

 

You are free to inform others of what yo believe, but you are not free to claim that anyone who calls themselves a Christian is or is not a Christian.

I never claimed that and, again, you have not proven that I have.  There are many who would say they are saved/Christians/whatever, but we know that they are not.  How do we know?  Because the Lord tells us that many will cry “Lord! Lord!”, yet they are eternally damned.  It’s not my opinion -- it’s scripture.

 

Perhaps, next time when you want to make a claim, include scripture to clarify that you are not playing the role that is not yours to play.

Now that’s a fair statement.

 

In addition to my 27March quote that you cited, and to further clarify the “Christian” name issue (with scripture and other documentation), the following is provided.

 

Some would cite 1 Peter 4:16, "Yet if any man suffer as a Christian, let him not be ashamed; but let him glorify God on this behalf."

 

First of all, keep in mind this is the one and only place in the entire scripture this word is used by any man of God. Secondly, Peter did not label the followers of Christ a "Christian" in the passage. Read it again, very carefully. He said they were to be "as a Christian." This is very important. The word as means "like or similar to," but it does not mean one is that word. For example:

 

Genesis 49:9, "...he couched as a lion," does not mean Judah was a lion when he couched!

 

Exodus 15:5, "...they sank into the bottom as a stone," does not mean they were a stone when they sank.

 

Matthew 17:20, "...If ye have faith as a grain of mustard seed," does not mean faith is a mustard seed.

 

Matthew 23:37, "...gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens," does not mean God's children were chickens.

 

Ephesians 5:25, "Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ," does not mean husbands are Christ when they love their wives.

 

And, therefore:

 

1 Peter 4:16, "Yet if any man suffer as a Christian," does not mean man is a Christian when they suffer.

 

When someone is "as" something else, it does not mean one is that something. It means we are similar, in some way, to that name, but we are not literally that name. You see, the heathens are the ones who called the followers of Christ "Christians" (Acts 11:26; 26:28). When Peter was referring to the title "Christian, " it is in the context of suffering, and is in reference to the name as imposed upon them by their enemies, because our enemies want us to suffer.

 

"Christian: A follower of the religion of Christ [Note carefully that Christ never started a religion - John 7:16]. It is probable that the name Christian, like that of Nazarenes and Galileans, was given to the disciples of our Lord in reproach or contempt. What confirms this opinion is, that the people of Antioch in Syria, Acts 11:26, where they were first called Christians observed by Zosimus, Procopius, and Zonaras, to have been remarkable for their scurrilous jesting. Some have indeed thought that this name was given by the disciples to themselves; others, that it was imposed on them by divine authority; in either of which cases we should have met with it in the subsequent history of the Acts, and in the Apostolic Epistles, all of which were written some years after; whereas it is found but in two more places in the New Testament, Acts 26:28, where a Jew is the speaker, and in 1 Peter 4:16, where reference appears to be made to the name as imposed on them by their enemies. The word used, Acts 11:26, signifies simply to be called or named, and when Doddridge and a few others take to imply a divine appointment, they disregard the usus loquendi [established acceptation of the term] which gives no support to that opinion. The words Tacitus, when speaking of the Christians persecuted by Nero, are remarkable, ‘vulgus Christianos appellabat,’ ‘the vulgar call them Christians.’ Epiphanius says, that they were called Jesseans, either from Jesse, the father of David, or, which is much more probable, from the name of Jesus, whose disciples they were. They were denominated Christians, A. D. 42 or 43; and though the name was first given reproachfully, they gloried in it, as expressing their adherence to Christ, and they soon generally accepted it." Richard Watson, Watson’s Bible Dictionary (1832), p. 233.

 

"Cristianos, Christian: a word formally not after the Greek but after the Roman manner, denoting attachment to or adherents to Christ. Only occurs as used by others of them, not by Christians of themselves. Tacitus (A.D. 96) says (Annals 15, 44), ‘The vulgar call them Christians. The author or origin of this denomination, Christus, had, in the reign of Tiberius been executed by the procurator, Pontius Pilate.’" Ethelbert William Bullinger, A Critical Lexicon and Concordance of the English and Greek New Testament (1908), p. 152.

 

"This name (Christian) occurs but three times in the New Testament, and is never used by Christians of themselves, only as spoken by or coming from those without the church. The general names by which the early Christians called themselves were ‘brethren,’ ‘disciples,’ ‘believers,’ and ‘saints.’ The presumption is that the name ‘Christian’ was originated by the heathen." Thomas W. Doane, Bible Myths (1882), page 567, note 3.

 

"The name (Christian) given by the Greeks or Romans, probably in reproach, to the followers of Jesus. It was first used at Antioch." Easton’s Bible Dictionary.

 

"Egypt, which you commanded to me, my dearest Servianus, I have found to be wholly fickle and inconsistent, and continually wafted about every breath of fame. The worshippers of Serapis (here) are called Christians, and those who are devoted to the god Serapis (I find), call themselves Bishops of Christ." The Emperor Adrian to Servianus, written A.D. 134.

 

If you go to Zodhiates Word Studies, he tells you that when they were called Christians at Antioch, using the word ‘crematezo,’ it was a "divine warning." In other words, be forewarned, avoid this word and the use of it. And that’s what the apostles did. You will never read any of these New Testament writers using the term ‘christian’ to describe themselves.

 

Please keep in mind that this site is part of a larger ministry.  We just happen to have an online forum.  We are not like the vast majority of other sites that call themselves Christian, nor are we like Facebook, Google Groups or Yahoo where you are free to voice any point you wish.

That is truly encouraging.  I wouldn’t know about “Facebook, Google Groups or Yahoo”, as I have not been called to participate in any of that.  And I’m not into opinions.

 

We monitor as best we can and hold everyone to the same Terms of Service.  If you happened to skip over reading it when requesting membership, it would be best for you to read what you agreed to.  We also have a Statement of Faith you may want to become familiar with.

I’ve read them both, and I’ve just now read them again.  I found no conflicts there, even though by design, the application is heavily weighed in WCF’s favor.  I accepted the package when I was directed here.

 

If you recall, the initial mention of this “Christian” label issue was in the context of the “gay Christian” topic.  My point was/is that, if one wants to walk truly free, there will be problems when one appropriates EITHER label (“gay” or “Christian”).  And there was another poster who intimated that, as well, prior to the thread being locked.

 

Either we endeavor to seek the truth, or we pander down to the P.C. thing and remain in bondage, knowingly or otherwise.  The truth is always vehemently opposed at first.  If we don’t want to discuss where the “Christian” label came from, then we’ve already declared our priority, haven’t we?

Edited March 30, 2015 by sojourner4Christ

[angels4u]

 

This is a question that I believe can only be answered speculatively, since the Bible doesn't directly address this issue.  I would approach this question the same as I would approach the issue about babies and infants that die.  I believe that babies will be raptured.  The God of the Bible is righteous and merciful and I don't believe that He will leave babies and infants  to suffer in the Tribulation just as I also believe that if a baby dies that it goes directly to Heaven.

I fully agree with shiloh.  Babies, young children still innocent in God's sight will be raptured with those of us who have chosen to believe and follow Christ. 

 

Because He Lives!!

                              RustyAngeL

 

Amen, I believe that too:)

[ave]

I know this is off topic; but i couldn't find an appropriate topic that was still open and, as a newbie, i can't start a topic.  I just wanted you to know when the rapture is: when the Voice from heaven says to the two witnesses, "Come up here".  We go with them.

[wingnut-]

I know this is off topic; but i couldn't find an appropriate topic that was still open and, as a newbie, i can't start a topic.  I just wanted you to know when the rapture is: when the Voice from heaven says to the two witnesses, "Come up here".  We go with them.

 

[KPaulG]

I know this is off topic; but i couldn't find an appropriate topic that was still open and, as a newbie, i can't start a topic.  I just wanted you to know when the rapture is: when the Voice from heaven says to the two witnesses, "Come up here".  We go with them.

Welcome, ave. That's so happy.