Dress Codes

[Bad Wolf]

I have looked at a lot of other sites on the web to try and find anything remotely related to the question I am about to ask and it was all in vain.

 

There's a lot of debate in Christian culture about dress codes, especially for girls, but my question is not related to modesty or whether my pants are too tight. Apparently I am an unusual case because I could not find anyone else who had the same dilemma as I.

 

The question is: Is it okay for me, as a professing Christian, to dress androgynously?

 

For any of those who don't know, androgyny means to not really be masculine but not really be feminine, and I am only using it in terms of aesthetic appearance. Before you jump to conclusions I want to make it absolutely clear that I am in no way gender-confused or anything like that. I'm happy to be a girl and I want to be a loving wife and mom someday so please do not read into my question in this way. I have other personal reasons that I will now proceed to explain.

 

As many of you may have noticed, our current culture is extremely sexualized, and the female body specifically is extremely sexualized. There's no way to get away from it. You can unplug the TV and filter your internet searches but it is everywhere in advertising, social media, and even in the people we know.

 

As a woman this makes me very uncomfortable, especially knowing that there's really nothing I can do about it except dress modestly. Ever since puberty I've been somewhat uncomfortable with my body. It wasn't a big deal because being home schooled I was home a lot but now that I'm in college and around people a lot I've started to realize just how much I don't like it. And this is where it get's confusing because it's not that I don't like how I look, I do like how I look, but I don't like the way culture sexualizes how I look. That's not to say I don't like to be feminine, I just don't like to be feminine when other people are around. I'm sure it's something I'll grow out of once I get into the dating scene and start thinking about marriage but for now I just don't desire to be seen as sexual.

 

The main thing I've always had trouble with is my, well, bosom. I've always thought it was inconvenient and wished I had a smaller (or flat) chest. Again, I'm sure my outlook will change once I'm ready to be in a relationship but for now it's useless to me. I like to wear a chest binder sometimes (I bought it for cosplays) to flatten it out but I'm worried what my friends and family will think of me (because it really is a kind of complicated thing to explain). I like how it looks and it actually makes me more comfortable being more feminine in other things (jewelry, makeup, clothes, etc) and I feel less sexualized.

 

I know in the Old Testament they mention men aren't supposed to wear women'd clothes and vice versa, but I don't want to look like a man, I just want to look a little less like a woman while still being feminine but in a different way than our culture defines femininity. Is it okay to willingly have a flat chest? And if so, how do I answer the tactful question of "where did your boobs go?" to the people I know in less words than these?

 

I'd really like to hear people's opinions because this question has been nagging at me for a long time and maybe it's not a big deal but maybe it is and I didn't know where else I could go to find answers because it's not exactly a common problem apparently.

[Marilyn C]

Hi BW,

 

I think I understand what you are meaning concerning dressing. Have you considered loose tops, & layered clothing also gives a straighter look from the front. It`s not wrong to want to be private of yourself, just don`t go to extremes & make it a big issue in your life, & I think you will find lots of clothing to suit.

 

All the best, Marilyn.

[missmuffet]

My uniform every summer is t-shirt and jeans.My uniform every winter is t-shirt,hoodie and jeans.That is what I am comfortable in and that is what my budget allows.It is not ultra feminine.If you are saying that women needs to wear dresses all the time you are legalistic.I am very modest in what I wear because the Bible tells us women to dress modest.I have been to the department stores and I can not find anything that I feel is appropriate.Most of the tops are low cut.That is what the designers and Satan want our women to wear.I will not do it.

[OakWood]

I have looked at a lot of other sites on the web to try and find anything remotely related to the question I am about to ask and it was all in vain.

 

There's a lot of debate in Christian culture about dress codes, especially for girls, but my question is not related to modesty or whether my pants are too tight. Apparently I am an unusual case because I could not find anyone else who had the same dilemma as I.

 

The question is: Is it okay for me, as a professing Christian, to dress androgynously?

 

For any of those who don't know, androgyny means to not really be masculine but not really be feminine, and I am only using it in terms of aesthetic appearance. Before you jump to conclusions I want to make it absolutely clear that I am in no way gender-confused or anything like that. I'm happy to be a girl and I want to be a loving wife and mom someday so please do not read into my question in this way. I have other personal reasons that I will now proceed to explain.

 

As many of you may have noticed, our current culture is extremely sexualized, and the female body specifically is extremely sexualized. There's no way to get away from it. You can unplug the TV and filter your internet searches but it is everywhere in advertising, social media, and even in the people we know.

 

As a woman this makes me very uncomfortable, especially knowing that there's really nothing I can do about it except dress modestly. Ever since puberty I've been somewhat uncomfortable with my body. It wasn't a big deal because being home schooled I was home a lot but now that I'm in college and around people a lot I've started to realize just how much I don't like it. And this is where it get's confusing because it's not that I don't like how I look, I do like how I look, but I don't like the way culture sexualizes how I look. That's not to say I don't like to be feminine, I just don't like to be feminine when other people are around. I'm sure it's something I'll grow out of once I get into the dating scene and start thinking about marriage but for now I just don't desire to be seen as sexual.

 

The main thing I've always had trouble with is my, well, bosom. I've always thought it was inconvenient and wished I had a smaller (or flat) chest. Again, I'm sure my outlook will change once I'm ready to be in a relationship but for now it's useless to me. I like to wear a chest binder sometimes (I bought it for cosplays) to flatten it out but I'm worried what my friends and family will think of me (because it really is a kind of complicated thing to explain). I like how it looks and it actually makes me more comfortable being more feminine in other things (jewelry, makeup, clothes, etc) and I feel less sexualized.

 

I know in the Old Testament they mention men aren't supposed to wear women'd clothes and vice versa, but I don't want to look like a man, I just want to look a little less like a woman while still being feminine but in a different way than our culture defines femininity. Is it okay to willingly have a flat chest? And if so, how do I answer the tactful question of "where did your boobs go?" to the people I know in less words than these?

 

I'd really like to hear people's opinions because this question has been nagging at me for a long time and maybe it's not a big deal but maybe it is and I didn't know where else I could go to find answers because it's not exactly a common problem apparently.

 

I think androgynous is going a bit too far. Think about Amish women and how they dress. The women dress very differently from the men and are obviously female, yet they are still very modest.

I'm not suggesting that you dress like an Amish woman and wear 19th Century clothes, but what I am suggesting is that you dress in a way that clearly shows that you are a woman.

You don't have to bag yourself from head to foot - you are not a Muslim (and don't forget that Satan loves to oppress women), so you must not hide who you are. There are plenty of feminine styles out there that protect your modesty but don't confuse anybody as to what sex you are. Your obsession with flat-chestedness sounds to me like a denial (or fear) of your womanhood. You were made a woman for a reason, God made you like that. Don't hide or deny your femininity. A woman can look desirable to men without tempting men. Finding a woman attractive is not the same as lusting after her. After all, it's what makes the World go round.

[1to3]

Hi Bad Wolf;

 

This time of your life is truly a wonderful time of discovery.

 

Its important that you feel well and at ease in college and concentrate on your studies and dress to fit your comfort zone, so your concentration remains on your goal of accomplishing an important step into adulthood, that is finishing your studies.

 

If for now you feel more comfortable wearing the chest binder and somebody that you know happens to asks you about it, you can just say, that for now you are wearing a style sports garment that helps with your posture, and freedom of movement.

If they persist with more questions, just say polity : like I said, for now what I choose to wear is really helpful and comfortable for my posture .And if they keep at it, just say: That's about as much of an answer that I can give you on the subject at the moment, and if they keep still asking you, just say: I think I' ve said about as much as I can on the subject and go to another topic of discussion. Keep your cool, and keep a friendly disposition while you say what you have to say. They should not persist and respect your privacy if you address them in a friendly and confident manner.

 

Also I think it is wise what has been already mentioned :not make it a bigger issue than it need be.

 

Best wishes;

    1to3

Edited January 30, 2015 by 1to3

[another_poster]

I know in the Old Testament they mention men aren't supposed to wear women'd clothes and vice versa, but I don't want to look like a man, I just want to look a little less like a woman while still being feminine but in a different way than our culture defines femininity. Is it okay to willingly have a flat chest? And if so, how do I answer the tactful question of "where did your boobs go?" to the people I know in less words than these?

 

In biblical times clothing for men and women did not look that different but it was still distinctly male clothing and female clothing. I guess that with womens jeans one often finds some pattern or design that would never be on mens jeans. So they are both jeans but still distinctly male and female. As for dressing modestly it is worth noting that the bible does not actually mention clothing when discussing how to dress modestly but rather teaches the principle not to dress to show off and get attention. Sounds like your doing that. In reality there is no way to dress so no man will like it. Tastes are just to varied to be able to do that. I for example much prefer ankle length dresses or skirts to short skirts or revealing tops. Yet those kinds of clothes would be considered modest. Others have a foot fetish which I don't understand myself but once again the kind of clothes you wear won't make much of a difference. So don't spend too much time worrying about modesty. Dress in a way that you find comfortable.

 

Like OakWood I also wonder if this is a part of you not wanting to grow up. Being comfortable being home schooled and now you go to college it is different and perhaps you are wanting something more familiar. It is not something to be concerned about but just different and different is okay.

[Guest Butero]

The Bible is clear that God wants men to look and dress like men and he wants women to look and dress like women.  If your concern is over people looking at you in a lustful way because of how much society has become over sexed due to all the things we see in movies and tv shows, as well as billboards and just about everywhere else, you are dealing with a modesty issue.  I know some ladies that are part of a conservative Independent Baptist Church that teaches women are to wear dresses and skirts all the time, and there is nothing in the way they dress that would cause people to lust after them, unless they are the type that will have those feelings regardless.  They are opposed to clothes that are "form fitting," so even though the women are feminine in their appearance, they aren't wearing dresses that are meant to draw unwanted attention.  It is a little hard to find clothes that are modest these days, but there are web-sites that have clothing for conservative, Christian women, who are trying to dress modest but feminine at the same time.  Here is a link to a web-site that has some information about conservative clothes for women.

 

http://www.achristianhome.com

[Littlelambseativy]

I find nothing wrong in wearing jean, and any top you want ...have you considered a sports bra which my make you a little more feminine without restricting your appearance completely.

I understand your concern about today's culture at university or college in regard to men/ women and the current news of sexual verbal and physical abuse of young women by the young men at those Institutions. University or college has become a place of loose morals and if you wish to protect yourself that is understood. However when you go hone can you take that time to be your feminine self?

Just don't make yourself an image for scorn by others. You are who God made you. Trying to protect yourself is fine as long as you do not attract the type of attention you do not desire by making yourself less feminine. There is the wanton look that some young ladies like and then there is the far opposite.

Dress the way that makes you comfortable without denying the beauty God gave you.

[OakWood]

Some of this comes down to whether or not women should wear what pertains to a man, and in another post, you yourself stated Littlelambseativy, that women who wear jeans and slacks are dressing like a guy.  That is contrary to Deuteronomy 22:5.  In your attempt to defend women having short hair, you made the following admission.

 

 

Well, I guess that means that any woman who dresses as a man, wearing shirts/blouses and slacks/jeans is also a disgrace to her husband.

 

 

I guess you must have figured that everyone would take your side that it was ok for women to wear jeans, and that is dressing like a man, so they would therefore conclude the teachings on hair length were not important.  I can't come up with any other reason you would have said this out of the blue since we weren't talking about clothes at the time. 

 

The woman shall not wear that which pertaineth unto a man, neither shall a man put on a woman's garment:  for all that do so are abomination unto the LORD thy God.  Deuteronomy 22:5

 

A woman wearing jeans is not dressing like a man. A man and a woman look very different in jeans and women's jeans are cut differently to men's. Deuteronomy is referring to deceit. If a woman dresses like a man or a man dresses like a woman then that person can look (at least on first glance) that they are of the opposite gender. A man in drag, for example does actually look like a woman to greater or lesser extent, but a man in a kilt does not. Society nowadays expects women to be able to wear jeans and a woman dressed in jeans fools no one.

[1to3]

Oh my goodness!  If wearing jeans or pants is wrong than I might as well just give up now.

Elderly ladies are doomed, the handicapped are doomed, because most wear pants instead of skirts, out of protection, comfort, warmth and convenience.

 

Pants are very, very convenient and practical and warm to wear in the winter.

There are different times to wear different attires.

For everyday living and going to school, your dress should be practical, comfortable and sensible so you can focus on the job at hand.

 

I like to wear different clothes for different occasions.  Skirts, dresses, pant suits, skirts suits, jeans, corduroys, other...depending on occasion and situation.

 

To be told that it is wrong and ungodly to wear pants just makes no sense. Common sens is needed.

 

 2 Timothy 1:7 For God has not given us a spirit of fear and timidity, but of power, love, and of a sound mind

 

If you are saved, and have a personal relationship with God, go and pray about it and ask God to show and give  you the right and sensible way and answer.

Trust yourself in God and in His word.

God looks beyond the physical, its what's in your heart that counts for Him.

 

 

Men in Jesus times wore robes, should men today wear robes as part of their everyday living?

or are only the Franciscans monks allowed and can get away with wearing them?

What if you live in a hot climate? What if your a Scottish bag pipe player? or part of some Scottish heritage where the dress code are kilts?

L.L.Bean was selling a few years back mens long sleep shirts gowns to wear for bed.

It is very customary in Europe to wear these long sleep shirts for men

Is that considered also sin?

 

And just pondering some more... some men have breast and also use certain types of close attire to discreetly keep their breast in place. Is that considered a sin?

 

Their is a degree to what is sensible and a degree to when sensible becomes perverse.

 

What you think so you are.

 

Think on good things,

Philippians 4:8

Think on These Things
8Finally, brethren, whatever is true, whatever is honorable, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is of good repute,

if there is any excellence and if anything worthy of praise, dwell on these things. 9The things you have learned and received and heard and seen in me, practice these things, and the God of peace will be with you.

 

be very careful of prejudice

judge not so you will not be judged.

 

Matthew 7: 1-3

 Judge not, that ye be not judged.

² For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.

³ And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?

 

 

 

Become the child of God that Gods wants you to become according to His word .

 

Regardless of superficiality, do good anyway;

 

   

___________________________________________

1. This version found written on the wall in Mother Teresa's home for children in Calcutta:

People are often unreasonable, irrational, and self-centered. Forgive them anyway.

If you are kind, people may accuse you of selfish, ulterior motives. Be kind anyway.

If you are successful, you will win some unfaithful friends and some genuine enemies. Succeed anyway.

If you are honest and sincere people may deceive you. Be honest and sincere anyway.

What you spend years creating, others could destroy overnight. Create anyway.

If you find serenity and happiness, some may be jealous. Be happy anyway.

The good you do today, will often be forgotten. Do good anyway.

Give the best you have, and it will never be enough. Give your best anyway.

In the final analysis, it is between you and God. It was never between you and them anyway.

-this version is credited to Mother Teresa ..

 

 

 

About the Amish?

 

They live separate away form main stream society and have little interaction with outside society.

They live cocooned in their view point christian ideology.

They also sing a mixture of Swiss German hymns and talk Swiss/German amongst themselves

and live by other restrictions to be deemed worthy to be called a true Amish

 

The Amish are not alone in wearing long dress attire

 

 monks who also live separate from the world in their monasteries have no problem with wearing robes.

 

and nuns who also live separate from the world in convents also have their very own separate dress code of long black attire .

 

Muslim woman also wear long robes and long veils.

 

 

God called us to go into the world, be ambassadors of Christ and preach the Good News to all.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited January 30, 2015 by 1to3