Eph 6:18 Praying in the spirit?

[1to3]

It was my understanding that their are two types of speaking in tongues, one is from another "known language" and the other kind is a unknown language only understood by God,

so that the devils cannot understand.

From The Living Bible -Paraphrased- Self-HelpEdition

1Corinthian14:2

But if your gift is that of being able to "speak in tongues",

that is to speak in languages you haven't learned,

you will be talking to God but not to others,

since they won't be able to understand you.

You will be speaking by the power of the Spirit but it will be a secret.

 

3-But one who proĥesies, preaching the message of God, is helping others

grow in the Lord, encouraging and comforting them.

 

4-So a person "speaking in tongues" help himself grow spiritually,

but one who prophesies, preaching messages from god, helps the entire church grow

in holiness abd hapiness

 

The KingJames version :

1 Corinthians 14:2

For he who speaks in a tongue does not speak to men but to God,

for no one understands him;

however, in the spirit he speaks mysteries.

3- But he who prophesies speaks edification and exhortation to men,

4-He who speaks in a tongue edifies himself,

but he who prophesies edifies the church.

 

The above shilow357 was what I was trying to say .

 

the idea of two types of tongues, one being a human language and one being a supernatural language, is not supported in the Greek of the New Testament.  

[1to3]

Is this verse speaking of praying in tongues?

And is there anyone with a lot of experience with speaking in tongues that would be willing to chat through email because I have a lot of questions about it?

 

From my understanding Ephesians 6:18 is explaining to us how to effectively pray :IN THE SPIRIT of GOD.

 

Asking God for anything in line with what  the Holy Spirit of Gods wishes.

 

What the Holy Spirit of God wishes for us is written in the Holy Bible.

So when we pray, our prayers need to be aligned with what is written in His Word.

 

The Living Bible-paraphrased- Self Help Edition-

Ephesian 6:18

 

18-Pray all the time.

ask God for anything in line with the Holy Spirit"s wishes.

Plead with him,reminding Him of your needs and praying earnestly

for all Christians everywhere.

 

King James version:

Ephesians 6:18

 

18- Praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit,

being watchful to the end with all perseverance and supplication for all the saints.

 

 

 In Ephesians ch6, Paul is explaining to us that we do not only wrestle with flesh and blood but also with the evil spirit world.

Paul teaches us as Christians in chapter 6 HOW TO arm ourselves everyday.

 

Praying to God everyday is part of applying the armor of God in our lives.

Ephesian 6:18  is about praying to God

 

 edited :spelling corrections

Edited February 15, 2015 by 1to3

[wingnut-]

 

There are two types of tongues:

 

1. Language of Earth

2. Language of Angels (Heaven)

 

Paul said " If I could speak all the languages of earth and of angels, but didn't love others, I would only be a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal." - 1.Cor. 13:1.

 

I believe it would be a gross error to conclude from this verse that there are two types of tongues. 

 

 

There are certainly those today who claim that they speak "angelic tongues", but there is no Scriptural authority for that.  As a matter of fact, Paul clearly stated that tongues would cease (1 Cor 13:8-10) and cease they did.  There are three superntural gifts associated with Divine revelation -- prophecies, tongues, and knowledge.  As long as the New Testament was incomplete, these gifts were necessary in the churches. 

 

After the book of Revelation was completed, these gifts were withdrawn because "when that which is complete (perfect = Gk teleios = complete) is come, then that which is in part shall be done away" (1 Cor 13:10).  There are many who misapply this Scripture deliberately to Christ, but if that were the case then Paul would have said "when He who is perfect is come...", but that would be meaningless in this context (since only three gifts are to be terminated). 

 

 

 

 

Hello ezra,

 

There seems to be some inconsistency in your approach.  In another conversation we were having, you stated that if something is said "once" in scripture, then you accept that without question.  In the case of angelic language, we see just that.  Yet you are dismissing it, abandoning your own methodology simply because it doesn't support your theological conclusions.

 

In regards to your suggestion that Revelation is complete, thus doing away with certain gifts, perhaps you would like to explain the scriptures below.

 

Revelation 10:³ and he cried out with a loud voice, as when a lion roars; and when he had cried out, the seven peals of thunder uttered their voices. ⁴ When the seven peals of thunder had spoken, I was about to write; and I heard a voice from heaven saying, “Seal up the things which the seven peals of thunder have spoken and do not write them.”

 

Do you know what the seven thunders said?  If not, then you cannot claim that all has been revealed.  Which would explain why the prophet Joel wrote this.

 

Joel 2:²⁸ “It will come about after this

That I will pour out My Spirit on all mankind;

And your sons and daughters will prophesy,

Your old men will dream dreams,

Your young men will see visions.

²⁹ “Even on the male and female servants

I will pour out My Spirit in those days.

 

I myself do not have the gift of tongues, maybe because I have never asked for it.  This does not mean that my brothers and sisters who say otherwise are mistaken, because I know many strong and devout Christians that insist they have, and based on their fruits, I do not doubt their sincerity.  Who am I to question that?  What would I know of the things the Holy Spirit has spoken to any other person?

[OneLight]

I see the question raised is derived from which version of the bible one uses.  For 1 Corinthians 13:1, some start the verse with "If I could", while others start "Though I speak".  Depending on which version you use, Paul is indication that if he could, while others claim he can.  The Greek I use states:

 

IF-EVER to-THE TONGUES OF-THE humans I-MAYBE-TALKING AND OF-THE MESSENGERS LOVE YET NO I-AM-HAVING I-HAVE-BECOME COPPER RESOUNDING OR cymbal SCREAMING.

 

IF-EVER does not indicate if he could, but if he ever does/did/will.

 

Hope I didn't confuse the issue.

[Ezra]

I see the question raised is derived from which version of the bible one uses.  For 1 Corinthians 13:1, some start the verse with "If I could", while others start "Though I speak".  Depending on which version you use, Paul is indication that if he could, while others claim he can.  The Greek I use states:

 

IF-EVER to-THE TONGUES OF-THE humans I-MAYBE-TALKING AND OF-THE MESSENGERS LOVE YET NO I-AM-HAVING I-HAVE-BECOME COPPER RESOUNDING OR cymbal SCREAMING.

 

IF-EVER does not indicate if he could, but if he ever does/did/will.

 

Hope I didn't confuse the issue.

No you did not confuse the issue but clarified it further.  That remark by Paul was purely hypothetical to emphasize that even the most accomplished (or exalted) tongue-speaking had no value without charity.

He was certainly not promoting "angelic tongues".  At the same time "ever" is not found in the Greek text (either TR or WH).  The word is ean = if translated as "though".

[OneLight]

I see the question raised is derived from which version of the bible one uses.  For 1 Corinthians 13:1, some start the verse with "If I could", while others start "Though I speak".  Depending on which version you use, Paul is indication that if he could, while others claim he can.  The Greek I use states:

 

IF-EVER to-THE TONGUES OF-THE humans I-MAYBE-TALKING AND OF-THE MESSENGERS LOVE YET NO I-AM-HAVING I-HAVE-BECOME COPPER RESOUNDING OR cymbal SCREAMING.

 

IF-EVER does not indicate if he could, but if he ever does/did/will.

 

Hope I didn't confuse the issue.

No you did not confuse the issue but clarified it further.  That remark by Paul was purely hypothetical to emphasize that even the most accomplished (or exalted) tongue-speaking had no value without charity.

He was certainly not promoting "angelic tongues".  At the same time "ever" is not found in the Greek text (either TR or WH).  The word is ean = if translated as "though".

 

Interesting that you are only addressing one side of tongues.  Paul, when speaking in 1 Corinthians 14, opens up with this statement:

Pursue love, and desire spiritual gifts, but especially that you may prophesy. For he who speaks in a tongue does not speak to men but to God, for no one understands him; however, in the spirit he speaks mysteries.

Following the above statement, Paul explains why prophecies are better than speaking in a tongue, yet he does not eliminate speaking in tongues while not speaking to the body, for we read in verse 18 and 19:

I thank my God I speak with tongues more than you all; yet in the church I would rather speak five words with my understanding, that I may teach others also, than ten thousand words in a tongue.

You see, when we speak, or pray in tongues, we speak directly to God, not men. When we pay in our own language, we do the same, but we understand what we are praying about. Why is it so hard to see that God offers us a gift that will benefit us, and through us, others, using our tongue to pray? God uses every part of us as He wills, not as man believes. He uses our tongue to speak prophecies, words of wisdom, words of knowledge, perform miracles, speak in tongues and interpretation of tongues. Through the laying of hands He heals and performs miracles. Through our heart and spirit, He gives faith and discernment of spirits.

We read in 1 Corinthians 12:4-6:

There are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit. There are differences of ministries, but the same Lord. And there are diversities of activities, but it is the same God who works all in all.

Just because you may not agree does not mean they praying in tongues are not real. God uses us in every way He sees fit, whether or not we believe.

[OneLight]

As for your translation of eán (G1437), what I have is the following from The Complete Word Study Dictionary (ISBN 0-89957-663-X)

Formed by the combination ei (1487), a conditional particle meaning if, and án (302), a particle denoting supposition, wish, possibility or uncertainty. What, where, whither, whosoever. Sometimes eán is contracted to án. It differs from ei in that ei expresses a condition which is merely hypothetical, a subjective possibility; eán implies a condition which experiences must determine, an objective possibility, and thus refers always to something future.

There are another two pages. I have found this dictionary very useful in rightly dividing His word.

[Ezra]

Interesting that you are only addressing one side of tongues.

 

For the purpose of this thread, all we need to establish is that "praying in the Spirit" (Eph 6:18) is quite different from "praying with the spirit" (1 Cor 14:15). Since "angelic tongues" came up, it was sufficient to note that all that Paul was saying is if that were a possibility (purely hypothetical) then even that would be worthless without charity.  But the fact that Paul also said that tongues would cease (1 Cor 13:8) has an important bearing on the subject. 

Edited February 16, 2015 by Ezra

[OneLight]

 

Interesting that you are only addressing one side of tongues.

For the purpose of this thread, all we need to establish is that "praying in the Spirit" (Eph 6:18) is quite different from "praying with the spirit" (1 Cor 14:15). Since "angelic tongues" came up, it was sufficient to note that all that Paul was saying is if that were a possibility (purely hypothetical) then even that would be worthless without charity. But the fact that Paul also said that tongues would cease (1 Cor 13:8) has an important bearing on the subject.

 

You didn't pay attention to what I posted.  The Greek word "ei" is the hypothetical expression, but what is used in the verse is "eán", which is not hypothetical, but possible.  You really need to understand the difference if you are going to bring the discussions of Greek definitions into the discussion.

 

Trying to add that tongues will cease, from 1 Corinthians 13, would also mean all in that verse is true.

 

Love never fails. But whether there are prophecies, they will fail; whether there are tongues, they will cease; whether there is knowledge, it will vanish away.

 

Has knowledge vanished?  Are prophecies failing? The next two verses state:

 

For we know in part and we prophesy in part. But when that which is perfect has come, then that which is in part will be done away.

What Paul meant when he claimed "that which is "perfect"", in the basic of terms, means complete. This time is not complete, so none has passed.

You should reconsider looking deeper into scripture. I can see you have a zeal for understanding. As Paul stated, we know in part. Yet, he also said:

 

Love suffers long and is kind; love does not envy; love does not parade itself, is not puffed up; does not behave rudely, does not seek its own, is not provoked, thinks no evil; does not rejoice in iniquity, but rejoices in the truth; bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things. Love never fails ...

[lavey.online]

Paul said " If I could speak all the languages of earth and of angels, but didn't love others, I would only be a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal." - 1.Cor. 13:1.

I wonder many times, why Paul tells as the "Languages of Angels" (in plural) instead to tell "Language (singular) of Angels".

Is it correct, Angels are speaking more than one language ?

Did God confused the language of Angels in Heaven, when they rebelled against His rule ? ... as He did in Genesis 11, in case of human.

Since Jesus prays like this : "Father ... your will may be fulfilled in earth as in Heaven ..."