ghtan Posted May 1, 2015 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 0 Topics Per Day: 0 Content Count: 422 Content Per Day: 0.12 Reputation: 216 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/21/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted May 1, 2015 I am not a preterist but I do think the most natural way to read Mt 24:34 is that Jesus was referring to the fall of Jerusalem in AD70. It was what Jesus was talking about in v 2 that led the disciples to enquire about timing (v 3). And that prediction was fulfilled within one generation. ~ Question Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled. Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away. But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only. Matthew 24:34-36 (NIV) Is This For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be. And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened. Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not. For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect. Behold, I have told you before. Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not. For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. Matthew 24:21-27 All Passed? But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only. Matthew 24:36 (NIV) Yes, I think so. Similar distress may recur in the last days but I believe the primary reference of v 21-27 is to AD70. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diaste Posted May 1, 2015 Group: Royal Member Followers: 14 Topic Count: 67 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 6,634 Content Per Day: 1.99 Reputation: 2,370 Days Won: 2 Joined: 03/17/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted May 1, 2015 I am not a preterist but I do think the most natural way to read Mt 24:34 is that Jesus was referring to the fall of Jerusalem in AD70. It was what Jesus was talking about in v 2 that led the disciples to enquire about timing (v 3). And that prediction was fulfilled within one generation. Hummmmm...... OK lets look at this closely Matt 24:32-35 32 "Now learn the parable from the fig tree: when its branch has already become tender, and puts forth its leaves, you know that summer is near; 33 even so you too, when you see all these things, recognize that He is near, right at the door. 34 "Truly I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things take place. 3 NASB So what is just before this that has to happen? I don't remember this in any history... Matt 24:29-31 29 "But immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, and the stars will fall from the sky, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken, 30 and then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of the sky with power and great glory. 31 "And He will send forth His angels with a great trumpet and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of the sky to the other. NASB Aah...but which is closer to v 34 - is it v 29-31 or v 33? Obviously v 33. And v 33 also contains the phrase "all these things". So "all these things" in v 34 must be referring to the same things in v 33. Now, wouldn't it have been insincere of Jesus to tell his disciples listening to him - note the emphatic "you" - to look out for "these things" if he knew full well that none of them would witness "these things"? All I can say is, Wow! I read a lot of these posts about this subject and....Wow! I know that's a bit emphatic but I have to express my admiration for such dismissive cognition. Do any of you realize that Jesus was speaking to all of 'them that believe'? As was Paul, and Matt, Mark, Luke, John, Peter, Jude, etc? Do any of you think that the apostles had an eternal view of history? They did. When they said 'we' and 'you' they meant all of us that believe. Scripture is replete with examples of the scope of time concerning the Coming of Jesus; eternity. None of these men were short sighted. They all knew when they died they would be resurrected in the Last Days. It would not matter if Jesus came tomorrow for them or in 10,000 years they would still have a place in the Kingdom, forever! The apostles frame of reference, as taught by Jesus in the entirety of the Word is eternity. Every believer and confessor in the resurrection and deity of Jesus is born again, resurrected and lives and reigns with Jesus in the kingdom, no matter when they lived or died! We are enslaved by time. Jesus and his words are not. When God sent the prophets to speak in his name about the things that God would bring to pass, those things would surely come to pass in God's time. For an eternal being time means nothing. For us centuries may pass yet for the Eternal Godhead it's mere moments. With the power of God even dead is not 'dead', time is not 'time' and eternity, the Kingdom and the people of God are the focus. All the posturing over 'this' or 'that' and 'you' and 'we' is meaningless when parsed in the context of eternity. It means a great deal if examined in the context of the span of man but is again rendered meaningless in that context, for different reasons. Honestly don't understand what point you are trying to make in relation to this thread. Perhaps it goes to show that different people find different things meaningless. That man tends to have short view of eternal things. We apply a very limited frame of reference to the concepts of an eternal being. Fair enough, but how does that explain what Jesus meant in Matt 24:34? I would assume he meant the generation that sees all the things he was taking about from Matt 24:4-33. Mark 13 and Luke 21 are quite similar. No generation has seen all those things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghtan Posted May 2, 2015 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 0 Topics Per Day: 0 Content Count: 422 Content Per Day: 0.12 Reputation: 216 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/21/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted May 2, 2015 I am not a preterist but I do think the most natural way to read Mt 24:34 is that Jesus was referring to the fall of Jerusalem in AD70. It was what Jesus was talking about in v 2 that led the disciples to enquire about timing (v 3). And that prediction was fulfilled within one generation. Hummmmm...... OK lets look at this closely Matt 24:32-35 32 "Now learn the parable from the fig tree: when its branch has already become tender, and puts forth its leaves, you know that summer is near; 33 even so you too, when you see all these things, recognize that He is near, right at the door. 34 "Truly I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things take place. 3 NASB So what is just before this that has to happen? I don't remember this in any history... Matt 24:29-31 29 "But immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, and the stars will fall from the sky, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken, 30 and then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of the sky with power and great glory. 31 "And He will send forth His angels with a great trumpet and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of the sky to the other. NASB Aah...but which is closer to v 34 - is it v 29-31 or v 33? Obviously v 33. And v 33 also contains the phrase "all these things". So "all these things" in v 34 must be referring to the same things in v 33. Now, wouldn't it have been insincere of Jesus to tell his disciples listening to him - note the emphatic "you" - to look out for "these things" if he knew full well that none of them would witness "these things"? All I can say is, Wow! I read a lot of these posts about this subject and....Wow! I know that's a bit emphatic but I have to express my admiration for such dismissive cognition. Do any of you realize that Jesus was speaking to all of 'them that believe'? As was Paul, and Matt, Mark, Luke, John, Peter, Jude, etc? Do any of you think that the apostles had an eternal view of history? They did. When they said 'we' and 'you' they meant all of us that believe. Scripture is replete with examples of the scope of time concerning the Coming of Jesus; eternity. None of these men were short sighted. They all knew when they died they would be resurrected in the Last Days. It would not matter if Jesus came tomorrow for them or in 10,000 years they would still have a place in the Kingdom, forever! The apostles frame of reference, as taught by Jesus in the entirety of the Word is eternity. Every believer and confessor in the resurrection and deity of Jesus is born again, resurrected and lives and reigns with Jesus in the kingdom, no matter when they lived or died! We are enslaved by time. Jesus and his words are not. When God sent the prophets to speak in his name about the things that God would bring to pass, those things would surely come to pass in God's time. For an eternal being time means nothing. For us centuries may pass yet for the Eternal Godhead it's mere moments. With the power of God even dead is not 'dead', time is not 'time' and eternity, the Kingdom and the people of God are the focus. All the posturing over 'this' or 'that' and 'you' and 'we' is meaningless when parsed in the context of eternity. It means a great deal if examined in the context of the span of man but is again rendered meaningless in that context, for different reasons. Honestly don't understand what point you are trying to make in relation to this thread. Perhaps it goes to show that different people find different things meaningless. That man tends to have short view of eternal things. We apply a very limited frame of reference to the concepts of an eternal being. Fair enough, but how does that explain what Jesus meant in Matt 24:34? I would assume he meant the generation that sees all the things he was taking about from Matt 24:4-33. Mark 13 and Luke 21 are quite similar. No generation has seen all those things. That is a common view, but what does it have to do with concepts of God as an eternal being? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diaste Posted May 2, 2015 Group: Royal Member Followers: 14 Topic Count: 67 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 6,634 Content Per Day: 1.99 Reputation: 2,370 Days Won: 2 Joined: 03/17/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted May 2, 2015 I am not a preterist but I do think the most natural way to read Mt 24:34 is that Jesus was referring to the fall of Jerusalem in AD70. It was what Jesus was talking about in v 2 that led the disciples to enquire about timing (v 3). And that prediction was fulfilled within one generation. Hummmmm...... OK lets look at this closely Matt 24:32-35 32 "Now learn the parable from the fig tree: when its branch has already become tender, and puts forth its leaves, you know that summer is near; 33 even so you too, when you see all these things, recognize that He is near, right at the door. 34 "Truly I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things take place. 3 NASB So what is just before this that has to happen? I don't remember this in any history... Matt 24:29-31 29 "But immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, and the stars will fall from the sky, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken, 30 and then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of the sky with power and great glory. 31 "And He will send forth His angels with a great trumpet and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of the sky to the other. NASB Aah...but which is closer to v 34 - is it v 29-31 or v 33? Obviously v 33. And v 33 also contains the phrase "all these things". So "all these things" in v 34 must be referring to the same things in v 33. Now, wouldn't it have been insincere of Jesus to tell his disciples listening to him - note the emphatic "you" - to look out for "these things" if he knew full well that none of them would witness "these things"? All I can say is, Wow! I read a lot of these posts about this subject and....Wow! I know that's a bit emphatic but I have to express my admiration for such dismissive cognition. Do any of you realize that Jesus was speaking to all of 'them that believe'? As was Paul, and Matt, Mark, Luke, John, Peter, Jude, etc? Do any of you think that the apostles had an eternal view of history? They did. When they said 'we' and 'you' they meant all of us that believe. Scripture is replete with examples of the scope of time concerning the Coming of Jesus; eternity. None of these men were short sighted. They all knew when they died they would be resurrected in the Last Days. It would not matter if Jesus came tomorrow for them or in 10,000 years they would still have a place in the Kingdom, forever! The apostles frame of reference, as taught by Jesus in the entirety of the Word is eternity. Every believer and confessor in the resurrection and deity of Jesus is born again, resurrected and lives and reigns with Jesus in the kingdom, no matter when they lived or died! We are enslaved by time. Jesus and his words are not. When God sent the prophets to speak in his name about the things that God would bring to pass, those things would surely come to pass in God's time. For an eternal being time means nothing. For us centuries may pass yet for the Eternal Godhead it's mere moments. With the power of God even dead is not 'dead', time is not 'time' and eternity, the Kingdom and the people of God are the focus. All the posturing over 'this' or 'that' and 'you' and 'we' is meaningless when parsed in the context of eternity. It means a great deal if examined in the context of the span of man but is again rendered meaningless in that context, for different reasons. Honestly don't understand what point you are trying to make in relation to this thread. Perhaps it goes to show that different people find different things meaningless. That man tends to have short view of eternal things. We apply a very limited frame of reference to the concepts of an eternal being. Fair enough, but how does that explain what Jesus meant in Matt 24:34? I would assume he meant the generation that sees all the things he was taking about from Matt 24:4-33. Mark 13 and Luke 21 are quite similar. No generation has seen all those things. That is a common view, but what does it have to do with concepts of God as an eternal being? If God is eternal and we are created in His image then we are also eternal. We should view things in that light. Unless the prophecy is already fulfilled unequivocally, fulfillment of any prophecy could occur at any time in the future. An hour from now, or a millennium from now it's all the same to the God who brings it to pass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghtan Posted May 4, 2015 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 0 Topics Per Day: 0 Content Count: 422 Content Per Day: 0.12 Reputation: 216 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/21/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted May 4, 2015 I am not a preterist but I do think the most natural way to read Mt 24:34 is that Jesus was referring to the fall of Jerusalem in AD70. It was what Jesus was talking about in v 2 that led the disciples to enquire about timing (v 3). And that prediction was fulfilled within one generation. Hummmmm...... OK lets look at this closely Matt 24:32-35 32 "Now learn the parable from the fig tree: when its branch has already become tender, and puts forth its leaves, you know that summer is near; 33 even so you too, when you see all these things, recognize that He is near, right at the door. 34 "Truly I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things take place. 3 NASB So what is just before this that has to happen? I don't remember this in any history... Matt 24:29-31 29 "But immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, and the stars will fall from the sky, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken, 30 and then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of the sky with power and great glory. 31 "And He will send forth His angels with a great trumpet and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of the sky to the other. NASB Aah...but which is closer to v 34 - is it v 29-31 or v 33? Obviously v 33. And v 33 also contains the phrase "all these things". So "all these things" in v 34 must be referring to the same things in v 33. Now, wouldn't it have been insincere of Jesus to tell his disciples listening to him - note the emphatic "you" - to look out for "these things" if he knew full well that none of them would witness "these things"? All I can say is, Wow! I read a lot of these posts about this subject and....Wow! I know that's a bit emphatic but I have to express my admiration for such dismissive cognition. Do any of you realize that Jesus was speaking to all of 'them that believe'? As was Paul, and Matt, Mark, Luke, John, Peter, Jude, etc? Do any of you think that the apostles had an eternal view of history? They did. When they said 'we' and 'you' they meant all of us that believe. Scripture is replete with examples of the scope of time concerning the Coming of Jesus; eternity. None of these men were short sighted. They all knew when they died they would be resurrected in the Last Days. It would not matter if Jesus came tomorrow for them or in 10,000 years they would still have a place in the Kingdom, forever! The apostles frame of reference, as taught by Jesus in the entirety of the Word is eternity. Every believer and confessor in the resurrection and deity of Jesus is born again, resurrected and lives and reigns with Jesus in the kingdom, no matter when they lived or died! We are enslaved by time. Jesus and his words are not. When God sent the prophets to speak in his name about the things that God would bring to pass, those things would surely come to pass in God's time. For an eternal being time means nothing. For us centuries may pass yet for the Eternal Godhead it's mere moments. With the power of God even dead is not 'dead', time is not 'time' and eternity, the Kingdom and the people of God are the focus. All the posturing over 'this' or 'that' and 'you' and 'we' is meaningless when parsed in the context of eternity. It means a great deal if examined in the context of the span of man but is again rendered meaningless in that context, for different reasons. Honestly don't understand what point you are trying to make in relation to this thread. Perhaps it goes to show that different people find different things meaningless. That man tends to have short view of eternal things. We apply a very limited frame of reference to the concepts of an eternal being. Fair enough, but how does that explain what Jesus meant in Matt 24:34? I would assume he meant the generation that sees all the things he was taking about from Matt 24:4-33. Mark 13 and Luke 21 are quite similar. No generation has seen all those things. That is a common view, but what does it have to do with concepts of God as an eternal being? If God is eternal and we are created in His image then we are also eternal. We should view things in that light. Unless the prophecy is already fulfilled unequivocally, fulfillment of any prophecy could occur at any time in the future. An hour from now, or a millennium from now it's all the same to the God who brings it to pass. "Eternal" when applied to God means that he is without beginning or end. Don't see how that can be said of humans. In any case, if a prophecy has not been fulfilled, it is obviously still awaiting fulfilment in the future. That is simply being logical; hardly anything to do with being "eternal." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
petula Posted May 4, 2015 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 8 Topic Count: 3 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,499 Content Per Day: 0.43 Reputation: 1,665 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/17/2014 Status: Offline Birthday: 03/31/1955 Share Posted May 4, 2015 This is an interesting thread , and I appreciate all your wisdom ,I have very little knowledge in this area , On the bus last week (sadly I'm one of those people you don't want to sit near ,....I talk about God) the driver who said he was a christian ,told me his church was preaching the end of the world was going to be on 23rd or 24th sept of this year and he cited the Isreal generation verse . I thought if anyone knew about this you people would ,sorry if I sound flippant , I have the utmost respect for all of you and our Lords word ,but I'm not sure about the bus driver ,and quite frankly I didn't know what to say . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angels4u Posted May 4, 2015 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 56 Topic Count: 1,664 Topics Per Day: 0.20 Content Count: 19,764 Content Per Day: 2.38 Reputation: 12,164 Days Won: 28 Joined: 08/22/2001 Status: Offline Share Posted May 4, 2015 This is an interesting thread , and I appreciate all your wisdom ,I have very little knowledge in this area , On the bus last week (sadly I'm one of those people you don't want to sit near ,....I talk about God) the driver who said he was a christian ,told me his church was preaching the end of the world was going to be on 23rd or 24th sept of this year and he cited the Isreal generation verse . I thought if anyone knew about this you people would ,sorry if I sound flippant , I have the utmost respect for all of you and our Lords word ,but I'm not sure about the bus driver ,and quite frankly I didn't know what to say . Hello Petula Matthew 24:36 But about that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
petula Posted May 4, 2015 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 8 Topic Count: 3 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,499 Content Per Day: 0.43 Reputation: 1,665 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/17/2014 Status: Offline Birthday: 03/31/1955 Share Posted May 4, 2015 I know Angel , that's what I quoted to him, but he was quite adament ,its this sept. I had never heard that before ,just wondered if anyone else had. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneLight Posted May 4, 2015 Group: Royal Member Followers: 22 Topic Count: 1,294 Topics Per Day: 0.21 Content Count: 31,762 Content Per Day: 5.22 Reputation: 9,763 Days Won: 115 Joined: 09/14/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted May 4, 2015 There have been many who have set previous dates, and every one of them were wrong ... so will this man be proven wrong. This is not the end of the world, though we are closing on the end of an age, the Chruch age. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
other one Posted May 4, 2015 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 29 Topic Count: 599 Topics Per Day: 0.08 Content Count: 56,200 Content Per Day: 7.56 Reputation: 27,929 Days Won: 271 Joined: 12/29/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted May 4, 2015 Israel became a nation in 1948. Many have taught that all the events following Matthew 24 were to occur within one generation from then, while ignoring the events surrounding the destruction of the second temple. Israel wandered the desert until that present generation passed. They wandered for forty years. But many of the twentieth century have been waiting for the current generation to pass. Well forty years brings us to 1988, nothing happened, It has also been stated a generation was 70 years. Well it has been 67 years since 1948. Nothing! Some even argued that a generation was 120 years. Well, let me make a prophecy. By 2168, 120 years from 1948, the results will be the same. Nothing. I have no doubt that not one of you reading this will live to see a rapture or the second advent. Depends on whether or not there is a pre trib rapture..... if not I'll loose my head over not worshiping the beast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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