the bride of Christ

[OneLight]

I think this thread needs a break so people can read it through as AI just did and reflect on the questions that have gone unanswered and the statements people have made.  Sometimes posts move too fast for people to take in all of what someone is saying.  I will open it again in the morning.

[OneLight]

I reopened this thread with hope that everyone took the time to review the thread, looking for answers you missed and question you did not answer.  Arguments arise when people put their blinders on and refuse to see what others are saying.  Please take the time to read all of what someone is saying, not just what you want to see in their words.

[other one]

thanks for reopening it.  I've been following it along.  It's an interesting thread.

[Guest shiloh357]

Hebrews 12:22 is not eschatological.   It is talking about the Church, now.  It says that you have come to heavenly Jerusalem.  It doesn't say you ARE the heavenly Jerusalem.   

 

But Revelation 21 is talking about a city with borders and walls and gates  that comes down out of heaven, after the New Heavens and New Earth are created.

[WilliamL]

..The New Jerusalem is a literal city, not a people group.   It is a foursquare city.

Yes, a city of the 8th millenium. On an earth with no sea. A city 12,000 furlongs = 1500 miles in height, which on a terrestrial earth which would put most of it above the atmosphere. Anyone who tries to materialize this city doesn't understand it in the least. This city comes down out of heaven from God: it is a spiritual creation of God, not a physical creation. This Bride of Christ is made of spirit, specifically the collective spirit of all those who are bound together as one in the Holy Spirit, the Spirit of Christ. Spiritual things can manifest in strange ways: does Jesus have a literal sword go out of his mouth when he comes to smite the nations? (Rev. 19:15) I think not.

 

YHWH was betrothed to Israel at Mount Sinai, via a marriage covenant. Israel is a race, the bloodline descendants of Abraham. "The soul of the flesh is in the blood." Lev. 17:11

 

Jesus was betrothed to the Church in the Upper Room, via a marriage covenant. The church is a spiritual lineage, not a blood lineage; different lineages, different marriages, both equally valid, the latter of greater authority that the former.

[Guest shiloh357]

The New Jerusalem is described as a physical city in which the residents of the New Earth will inhabit.  It has walls and gates.  It is  a literal city.

 

 

Where does the Bible indicate that Jesus was "betrothed"  to the Church in the upper room?   The Church didn't begin until Acts 2.

[pomegran]

I’ve found other people discussing the Bride on other forums as well. Someone brought up that in Mark 2:19 some Bible versions (KJV, ASV, ERV, YLT) translate a description of the apostles as “children of the bridechamber”,

 

19 And Jesus said unto them, Can the children of the bridechamber fast, while the bridegroom is with them? as long as they have the bridegroom with them, they cannot fast.

 

Other versions translate this as “friends of the bridegroom” or “groomsmen”. However, taking the translation “children of the bridechamber” led me to consider another verse, where Paul is speaking of our mother from above, free Jerusalem, in Gal 4:26-27

26 But the Jerusalem above is free, and she is our mother. 27 For it is written:

“Rejoice, childless woman,

who does not give birth.

Burst into song and shout,

you who are not in labor,

for the children of the desolate are many,

more numerous than those

of the woman who has a husband”

We know Jesus is the Bridegroom and if the apostles are “children of the bridechamber” as well as having free Jerusalem from above as their mother, then it follows that Jerusalem is the Bride. This would then bring us full circle to Revelation 21:9-10.

“Come, I will show you the bride, the Lamb’s wife.”[g] 10 And he carried me away in the Spirit to a great and high mountain, and showed me the great city, the holy[h] Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God

 

Considering the other translations with Jesus saying the apostles are "friends of the Bridegroom" or "guests of the Bridegroom", it makes me wonder why he didn’t explicitly state them as Bride in these analogies if they were intended to be understood as the Bride.

[Openly Curious]

Where does the Bible say that the church is  a part of the New Jerusalem??

Where does it say it isn't ?

Just who do you believe is going to inhabit the New Jerusalem if not the believers from every dispensation ?

I'm not talking about during the Millienial either.

I'm talking about the city mentioned in Revelation 22 in the new heavens and new earth when the former heavens and earth have been melted away with fervent heat.

[Openly Curious]

Marriage is a covenant relationship and God has never made a covenant with the Church.  

God has onlymade covenant with Israel and the Church is not Israel.

Do you not think that the blood covenant is a covenant with the Church ?

Matthew 26:28 - For this is my blood of the new testament,(covenant) which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

There would be no Church without the blood covenant as nobody could be saved without it.

The nation of Israel itself is not the Church no more than the nation of America is the Church or any other nation on the earth. But the Church in this dispensation of grace is made up of those who have been born again (Jews and Gentiles alike) and have accepted the sacrifice of Jesus'a body he gave on the cross for the remission of their sins. The blood covenant is to whosoever will call on the name of the Lord shall be saved they are included whomever they maybe.

Below in the scripture is the Church and household of God, the chosen and elect in this dispensation of grace which we are in right now. The dispensation of grace will end when the church is taken out and the seven year tribulation period (dispensation) will begin. Those who will be saved during that dispensation will be those who refuse to worship the beast and refuse his mark and the 144,000 Jews who will purify and set themselves a part during those seven years. There are believers or saints from every dispensation that are saved according to the plans of God within each dispensation.

Ephesians 2:11-22 - Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcism by that which is called the Circumcisisn (Jews)in the flesh made by hands; That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in this world; But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ. For He is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us; Having abolished in his flesh the enmity even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace, And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross having slain the enmity thereby. And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh. For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father. Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God. And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief cornerstone; In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord; In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.

The marriage covenant is sealed by blood. The covenant with the Church has been sealed with the blood of Christ.

[Marilyn C]

Thanks One Light,

 

for holding the thread a while. I`ve been on holidays & was travelling yesterday & now I am ready to read all the comments & reply (as well as Shiloh who has done a wonderful job).

 

Marilyn.