the bride of Christ

[Marilyn C]

 

Openly Curious, on 03 March 2015 - 11:37 PM, said:

 

Who do you say is the body of Christ?

 

 

 

 

Marilyn C, on 05 April 2015 -02:23 AM, said:

 

Hi Openly Curious,

 

I appreciate your question & think it would be a good topic on its own.

 

Blessings, Marilyn.

 

 

 

If you want to start your own thread on it you can. 

 

But just a simple answer would have sufficied me.

 

Hi Openly Curious,

 

To me the Body of Christ are the `called out ones` from Israel & the nations, set in one Body by the Holy Spirit. When Christ has completed building it to maturity in Him, it will be taken to its eternal setting in the third heaven where it will rule & reign as KingPriests, with Christ over all.

 

Marilyn.

[Guest Butero]

Premillennialism is far more correct than amillennialism, preterism or covenant theology.

You say that pre-millennialism is more correct than amillennialism, preterism or covenant theology, meaning you see some issues with all of them.  I would like to have your explanation of what all of these different views are, and what points you agree with them in and what points you disagree with them in.  Thanks in advance.  This isn't a trick question, but I am trying to understand exactly what you do believe, not what you think is less in error. 

[Willa]

No Willa, the New Covenant is not with the Church.  It is with the House of Israel and the House of Judah.   Gentiles are grafted into covenant community.  They are brought into a covenant that already exists.   God did not start a new Covenant with anyone other than Israel and Judah.

Jer. 31:31 does say with the house of Israel and the house of Judah. But that became a reality by Christ's blood on the cross and when the Holy Spirit was poured out on Jewish believers at Weeks/Pentacost. The beginning of the church was all Jewish. We gentiles were grafted in later beginning with the house of Cornelius and then with Paul and Barnabus' ministry. I don't think of the church as being gentile. I do think of it being a Jewish entity that has, by the blood of Christ which brings us into one body, been chosen to be enlarged by gentile believers. And I believe that the time of the gentiles is soon coming to an end. The mystery of the body of Christ is the mystery of the church. We are made one in Christ. We both are so endebted to God's grace since we are certainly not getting what we deserve. For while we were yet sinners Christ died for us.

Mat 26:28 was given to the Jewish disciples with the promise of drinking of it again in our Father's Kingdom..

[Openly Curious]

the New Covenant is not with the Church.

According to the words of Jesus in the scripture the New Covenant IS with the Church.

Matthew 26:28 - For this is my blood of the new testament (covenant) which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

It is with the House of Israel and the House of Judah.

In the covenant (oath) of promise God made with Abraham in Genesis 12:1-3 it includes "all" nation(s) not just Israel and Judah as you've stated...

Genesis 12:1-3 - vs.3(latter part of the covenant was)..."and in thee shall "All" families of the earth be blessed.

The covenant includes both Jew and Gentile nations.

 

Gentiles are grafted into covenant community.

What is your difinition of "covenant community" what do you mean by that term ?

 

They are brought into a covenant that already exists.

What specific covenant would that be ?

 

God did not start a new Covenant with anyone other than Israel and Judah.

Then just how do you think the Gentile nations can be saved today without there being covenant with God ?

Is the body of Christ still divided in your beliefs meaning the Jewish believers and Gentile believers are not in the same body in Christ.

Either they are one body or two seperate bodies.

It looks as if you have now come up with three trees, two of them are the same tree being Israel and Judah and - the third tree is the Gentiles. Interesting...

[Guest shiloh357]

Matt. 26:28 says that the blood of Jesus is shed for the remission of sins, it  does not say that the New Covenant is with the Church.   The ONLY ones with whom the covenant is made.  Gentiles are grafted in. 

 

Gen. 12:1-3  simply says that Abraham will be a blessing to all nations.  It does not say that the Abrahamic Covenant is WITH all nations.

 

According to Paul, in Eph. 2, the Gentiles who had no covenant and no hope and no God were brought near.   They were grafted into the New Covenant that was cut in Jesus blood.  No where does it say that God made a new covenant with the nations.

 

The nations are beneficiaries of the Covenant by faith. But they are not in Covenant with God.  

[Openly Curious]

Premillennialism is far more correct than amillennialism, preterism or covenant theology.

I do not believe in either of these 3 groups Premillennialism, Amillennialism or Preterism. I am not exactly sure of your difinition of what covenant theology means to you.

[Guest shiloh357]

Butero,

 

Amillennialism means that there is no millennial reign of Christ.  There is no thousand years.   They view the church age  being symbolized by the thousand years.  "Thousand" is not viewed a  literal, but rather symbolic number.

 

Preterism is wrong because Preterism claims that ALL Bible prophecy was fulfilled n 70 AD including the return of Christ.  Preterists do not believe in a literal return of Jesus.  They believe that Jesus' "return"  was in 70 AD with the destruction of the Temple.   So they are not looking for Jesus to return.   Covenant Theology teaches that there is a covenant of works vs. a covenant  of grace.  Those are not biblical terms and they are based in the Reformed Calvinist view which teaches the false doctrine of total depravity another term that goes against Scripture.

[Openly Curious]

Matt. 26:28 says that the blood of Jesus is shed for the remission of sins, it  does not say that the New Covenant is with the Church.   The ONLY ones with whom the covenant is made.  Gentiles are grafted in.

Matthew 26:28 - For this is my blood of the new testament (oath, covenant) which is shed for "many" for the remission of sins.

Just who do you think that the "many" are that Jesus is speaking of ? 

 

 

Gen. 12:1-3  simply says that Abraham will be a blessing to all nations.  It does not say that the Abrahamic Covenant is WITH all nations.

 

Genesis 12:3 - (latter part)...and "in thee" shall all families (nation(s)) of the earth be blessed.

The scripture does "not" say that Abraham will be a blessing to all nations. It says "in thee" speaking concerning Christ Jesus who would be born into the world through the lineage and line of Abraham would be blessed. Christ was the promised seed of Abraham. The stone which the builder's rejected.

 

The nations are beneficiaries of the Covenant by faith. But they are not in Covenant with God.

Just how can they be beneficiares of a Covenant you say does't even exist ?  

[Guest shiloh357]

I didn't say the covenant doesn't exist. It does exist.   It was made with Israel and Judah.  The Gentiles are brought into it.  But they are not "in" covenant with God.  They the included by faith, but the covenant isn't "with" them.

 

Yes, Genesis 12:3 says "in thee"  shall all nations be blessed  I don't see how that is different than what I said.   The nations will be blessed because of Abraham's obedience.  it doesn't say that all nations are in Abrahamic covenant.   It looks forward to the time when Gentiles will be the seed of Abraham by faith.

 

And again, Matt. 26: says His blood is shed for many.  But that doesn't mean that all of those "many" are in covenant with God.   It simply says his blood was shed for them

[Marilyn C]

Openly Curious said this -

Matthew 26:28 - For this is my blood of the new testament (oath, covenant) which is shed for "many" for the remission of sins.

 

Testament & Covenant are two different things. Will put some notes together for this.

 

Marilyn.