Revelation 10 - the Q'uran?

[Last Daze]

 

 

This is not a game of chess, so that analogy doesn't fit   He is not glorifying an angel.   This is an angel of the same kind as the ones mentioned in chapter nine.  None of them were Jesus, either.

 

You are grabbing one verse from one context, and using it to define the same thing in a totally different context.   The rainbow around the throne of God is not the same rainbow around the head of the angel.   Your just putting forth nonsense.

 

The Bible identifies that angel as an angel and YOU are trying impose something on the text that is not there.   YOU are the one without evidence.  

 

Angels, do reflect to a limited degree, the glory of God..   Every time someone sees an angel, they are terrified.    Angels are to our eyes, being surrounded by the glory of God.  

 

But the Bible nowhere in the OT or the New Testament, ever picture Jesus as an angel.  Nowhere in the Bible does Jesus ever appear to anyone as an angel and you are helpless to provide one example, including Revelation 10.

 

An angel might resemble Jesus based on what we see, but angels themselves are always, in Scripture, very quick to distinguish themselves separately from God.  

 

You have little to no discernment in the Scriptures and are not qualified to teach given that you promote such gross heresy.

Shiloh, I know how passionate you are about Scripture and I highly respect you for that.  But I have to tell you this; speaking harshly to other believers because they disagree with you and maybe believe wrongly on some things will not win over anyone nor will it stimulate discussion.  If you come out swinging  and trampling on others you will only harden their positions.  It's just how we humans are.  

 

One of the things that I like about shiloh is that he is honest and tells it like it is.We can not be wishy washy about people who are posting false doctrine.We need to let them know in a firm way that we just will not buy that garbage.Actually I respect someone who is going to stand up firm for the true literal word of God.

 

 

Seeing how the subject is prophecy, I think the term "false doctrine" is an inaccurate over-statement.  Marilyn is explaining her interpretation of the vision / symbolism in Revelation 10 as is Shiloh357.  She has actually brought up some good points that I find compelling which don't seem to have been refuted.

[Guest shiloh357]

It is false doctrine because it touches on the nature and person of Christ.    While prophecy itself is pretty much speculative in many areas, the person of Christ is part of established doctrine and Jesus is never presented in the Bible as an angel.

[MorningGlory]

 

 

 

 

This is not a game of chess, so that analogy doesn't fit   He is not glorifying an angel.   This is an angel of the same kind as the ones mentioned in chapter nine.  None of them were Jesus, either.

 

You are grabbing one verse from one context, and using it to define the same thing in a totally different context.   The rainbow around the throne of God is not the same rainbow around the head of the angel.   Your just putting forth nonsense.

 

The Bible identifies that angel as an angel and YOU are trying impose something on the text that is not there.   YOU are the one without evidence.  

 

Angels, do reflect to a limited degree, the glory of God..   Every time someone sees an angel, they are terrified.    Angels are to our eyes, being surrounded by the glory of God.  

 

But the Bible nowhere in the OT or the New Testament, ever picture Jesus as an angel.  Nowhere in the Bible does Jesus ever appear to anyone as an angel and you are helpless to provide one example, including Revelation 10.

 

An angel might resemble Jesus based on what we see, but angels themselves are always, in Scripture, very quick to distinguish themselves separately from God.  

 

You have little to no discernment in the Scriptures and are not qualified to teach given that you promote such gross heresy.

Shiloh, I know how passionate you are about Scripture and I highly respect you for that.  But I have to tell you this; speaking harshly to other believers because they disagree with you and maybe believe wrongly on some things will not win over anyone nor will it stimulate discussion.  If you come out swinging  and trampling on others you will only harden their positions.  It's just how we humans are.  

 

One of the things that I like about shiloh is that he is honest and tells it like it is.We can not be wishy washy about people who are posting false doctrine.We need to let them know in a firm way that we just will not buy that garbage.Actually I respect someone who is going to stand up firm for the true literal word of God.

 

 

As I said, bopeep, I respect Shiloh as well.  And I have no problem if he wants to  throw brick bats at ME because I love a knock down/drag out. Not everyone feels that way though. My concern is that coming down too hard on other believers won't turn them from incorrect doctrine at all but, rather, push them to either keep defending their position or to leave this forum (which has happened many times before).  I'm not talking about Shiloh here but others who have been a part of Worthy in the past. I'm all for honesty and I, personally, will speak my mind and let the chips fall where they may but rudeness is not a Christian attribute. 

 

I do not think it is a knock down drag out.I have seen those on other boards and what shiloh says does not come near to that.I think that if someone is posting false doctrine you need to kick Satan right in the rear and not let it go on any farther.If someone is using harsh language and calling some a bad name...yes that is wrong.I have seen you definitely speak your mind to others Morning on here.If someone continues to post false doctrine I think we need to be all over it.There are some Christian message boards Morning that Satan has taken control.Very sad to see it.And the really sad part of it is the moderators have Satan in their back pocket.

 

 

No, I meant that I, personally, love a knock down, drag out when I am a PARTICIPANT, not when it's other people doing the knocking and dragging. There are a lot of people who are hurt by that kind of thing tough. The problem I have with being 'all over it' is that first we have to be certain we are correct and then go about opposing false doctrine in the right way.  You can't just browbeat someone else into seeing the light.  As for the mods having satan in their back pockets?  I am totally stumped as to what you mean by that. Do you mean on other forums?  Because I have posted to a few that definitely are not Scriptural in either content or moderators myself.  I have not encountered that here at Worthy.  

[missmuffet]

 

 

 

 

 

This is not a game of chess, so that analogy doesn't fit   He is not glorifying an angel.   This is an angel of the same kind as the ones mentioned in chapter nine.  None of them were Jesus, either.

 

You are grabbing one verse from one context, and using it to define the same thing in a totally different context.   The rainbow around the throne of God is not the same rainbow around the head of the angel.   Your just putting forth nonsense.

 

The Bible identifies that angel as an angel and YOU are trying impose something on the text that is not there.   YOU are the one without evidence.  

 

Angels, do reflect to a limited degree, the glory of God..   Every time someone sees an angel, they are terrified.    Angels are to our eyes, being surrounded by the glory of God.  

 

But the Bible nowhere in the OT or the New Testament, ever picture Jesus as an angel.  Nowhere in the Bible does Jesus ever appear to anyone as an angel and you are helpless to provide one example, including Revelation 10.

 

An angel might resemble Jesus based on what we see, but angels themselves are always, in Scripture, very quick to distinguish themselves separately from God.  

 

You have little to no discernment in the Scriptures and are not qualified to teach given that you promote such gross heresy.

Shiloh, I know how passionate you are about Scripture and I highly respect you for that.  But I have to tell you this; speaking harshly to other believers because they disagree with you and maybe believe wrongly on some things will not win over anyone nor will it stimulate discussion.  If you come out swinging  and trampling on others you will only harden their positions.  It's just how we humans are.  

 

One of the things that I like about shiloh is that he is honest and tells it like it is.We can not be wishy washy about people who are posting false doctrine.We need to let them know in a firm way that we just will not buy that garbage.Actually I respect someone who is going to stand up firm for the true literal word of God.

 

 

As I said, bopeep, I respect Shiloh as well.  And I have no problem if he wants to  throw brick bats at ME because I love a knock down/drag out. Not everyone feels that way though. My concern is that coming down too hard on other believers won't turn them from incorrect doctrine at all but, rather, push them to either keep defending their position or to leave this forum (which has happened many times before).  I'm not talking about Shiloh here but others who have been a part of Worthy in the past. I'm all for honesty and I, personally, will speak my mind and let the chips fall where they may but rudeness is not a Christian attribute. 

 

I do not think it is a knock down drag out.I have seen those on other boards and what shiloh says does not come near to that.I think that if someone is posting false doctrine you need to kick Satan right in the rear and not let it go on any farther.If someone is using harsh language and calling some a bad name...yes that is wrong.I have seen you definitely speak your mind to others Morning on here.If someone continues to post false doctrine I think we need to be all over it.There are some Christian message boards Morning that Satan has taken control.Very sad to see it.And the really sad part of it is the moderators have Satan in their back pocket.

 

 

No, I meant that I, personally, love a knock down, drag out when I am a PARTICIPANT, not when it's other people doing the knocking and dragging. There are a lot of people who are hurt by that kind of thing tough. The problem I have with being 'all over it' is that first we have to be certain we are correct and then go about opposing false doctrine in the right way.  You can't just browbeat someone else into seeing the light.  As for the mods having satan in their back pockets?  I am totally stumped as to what you mean by that. Do you mean on other forums?  Because I have posted to a few that definitely are not Scriptural in either content or moderators myself.  I have not encountered that here at Worthy.  

 

I am certain that what I have posted is the true literal word of God.I feel that I have a sharp discernment and I can see false doctrine from a mile away.I do not call browbeating telling someone that they are wrong.Basically that is what shiloh is doing but he does not beat around the bush.

I mean on a couple of other Christian message boards which is not Worthy I have seen some very sad displays of false doctrine and if a person would post the true word of God the moderators would not like that.They preferred the false doctrine.And that is why Satan is a huge influence in those boards.

[missmuffet]

[MorningGlory]

 

 

No, I meant that I, personally, love a knock down, drag out when I am a PARTICIPANT, not when it's other people doing the knocking and dragging. There are a lot of people who are hurt by that kind of thing tough. The problem I have with being 'all over it' is that first we have to be certain we are correct and then go about opposing false doctrine in the right way.  You can't just browbeat someone else into seeing the light.  As for the mods having satan in their back pockets?  I am totally stumped as to what you mean by that. Do you mean on other forums?  Because I have posted to a few that definitely are not Scriptural in either content or moderators myself.  I have not encountered that here at Worthy.  

 

I am certain that what I have posted is the true literal word of God.I feel that I have a sharp discernment and I can see false doctrine from a mile away.I do not call browbeating telling someone that they are wrong.Basically that is what shiloh is doing but he does not beat around the bush.

I mean on a couple of other Christian message boards which is not Worthy I have seen some very sad displays of false doctrine and if a person would post the true word of God the moderators would not like that.They preferred the false doctrine.And that is why Satan is a huge influence in those boards.

 

 

I know that what you posted is the true Word, bopeep, and I know Shiloh does as well.  My point is that when you're dealing with a fellow believer, and you believe they are wrong in their interpretation, you have to go about trying to point out their error in the right way.  No one is going to listen to someone who insults them or cuts them down.  They will either come back swinging or decide they can't take the abuse.  I've seen it dozens of times right here on this forum, usually resulting in closed threads and complaints to the mods.  Reason wins the debate, every time. 

[MorningGlory]

 

Amen!  That's neat; you should make it your sig. 

[missmuffet]

 

 

Amen!  That's neat; you should make it your sig. 

 

No I am bopeep and that avatar would not look right.But anyone here is welcome to use it.

[Last Daze]

I am certain that what I have posted is the true literal word of God.I feel that I have a sharp discernment and I can see false doctrine from a mile away.

 

Just like everyone else.

 

It's one thing to discern when something goes against one's beliefs.  It's quite another to discern whether that something is true or not.

[Last Daze]

This is not saying that God or Jesus is a created angel

 

I think this is where the rub is.  By using the term "angel" people automatically associate that with a created spirit being which is largely true but not exclusively so.  An angel is a messenger.  Deity has been known to have been referenced as an angel before.  Granted, most of God's messages are sent via created spirit beings but that does not preclude a message from coming directly from God.  The description of this messenger in Rev 10 lends itself to being a divine messenger (angel).