By Faith Posted June 5, 2015 Group: Junior Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 0 Topics Per Day: 0 Content Count: 94 Content Per Day: 0.03 Reputation: 110 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/17/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted June 5, 2015 Unbelief does not limit God and none of the verses say that God is limited by unbelief. The verses in Hebrews says that the children of Israel could not enjoy the promised land because of their unbelief. They don't say that God was in any way limited by their belief. Jesus upbraided the disciples in Mark 4 for their lack of faith and fearfulness. But their lack of faith did not hinder Jesus. All things are possible to them that believe, but that is tempered by what is in line with God's sovereign will. James was also talking about what is in line with God's will, and specifically he was talking about wisdom. Anyone can string verses together and make the Bible say whatever they want it to say. False teachers are good at that. Heb_4:6 Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief: Psa 78:41 Yea, they turned back and tempted God, and limited the Holy One of Israel. Here is your scripture Shiloh, why do I even have to post it? You can't connect dot 1 to dot 2, on and on about what Shiloh believes despite the scriptures I give. They limited God because of unbelief!!!!! Now go tell me the scripture does not really say that. Go ahead. Believe what you want, I have wasted enough of my time. I have been trying to get you to see something, and the eyes stay closed. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omegaman 3.0 Posted June 5, 2015 Group: Graduated to Heaven Followers: 57 Topic Count: 1,546 Topics Per Day: 0.21 Content Count: 10,320 Content Per Day: 1.41 Reputation: 12,323 Days Won: 9 Joined: 04/15/2004 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/05/1951 Share Posted June 5, 2015 Unbelief does not limit God and none of the verses say that God is limited by unbelief. The verses in Hebrews says that the children of Israel could not enjoy the promised land because of their unbelief. They don't say that God was in any way limited by their belief. Jesus upbraided the disciples in Mark 4 for their lack of faith and fearfulness. But their lack of faith did not hinder Jesus. All things are possible to them that believe, but that is tempered by what is in line with God's sovereign will. James was also talking about what is in line with God's will, and specifically he was talking about wisdom. Anyone can string verses together and make the Bible say whatever they want it to say. False teachers are good at that. 58And He did not do many miracles there because of their unbelief. Perhaps it is not that He is limited - perhaps it is just His policy or choice! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 By Faith, the word used for "limit" in Ps. 78:41 is hitav-oo and it means to "grieve." it doesn't mean that God was limited. My eyes are not closed. I just don't buy into your false teaching that seems to diminish the sovereignty of God Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
By Faith Posted June 5, 2015 Group: Junior Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 0 Topics Per Day: 0 Content Count: 94 Content Per Day: 0.03 Reputation: 110 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/17/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted June 5, 2015 Unbelief does not limit God and none of the verses say that God is limited by unbelief. The verses in Hebrews says that the children of Israel could not enjoy the promised land because of their unbelief. They don't say that God was in any way limited by their belief. Jesus upbraided the disciples in Mark 4 for their lack of faith and fearfulness. But their lack of faith did not hinder Jesus. All things are possible to them that believe, but that is tempered by what is in line with God's sovereign will. James was also talking about what is in line with God's will, and specifically he was talking about wisdom. Anyone can string verses together and make the Bible say whatever they want it to say. False teachers are good at that. 58And He did not do many miracles there because of their unbelief. Perhaps it is not that He is limited - perhaps it is just His policy or choice! There are divine set spiritual laws God set in place, and won't break despite wanting to help us. Jesus was stopped because of their unbelief, but most important their total lack of respect for him while he was there put them in a position to not receive from him what He had to offer. Let's face it, if you think I am dumb, and can't do things right, the despite me knowing how to paint, may stop you from asking me to be the one to pain your house, even for free. So you would not receive what I was offering you, even for free based on what you thought of me. They Saw Jesus no better than they where........ "Is this not Joseph boy who we grew up with? Who is he coming in here with all this revelation?" Satan, the other factor: For some odd reason, by what the Lord and Satan worked out long ago, the devil has rights. Even the devils accused Jesus and rebuked him in the name of God for coming to torment them the before it was time. They felt Jesus has no legal ground to operate on earth in the Power of the Son of God. Jesus has a flesh body though, and was born of a women which gave him the right. unbelief, sides with the devil who tells you that your not going to make it. Unbelief sides with God not supplying all your needs, and fear things are not going to turn out well. We can't pick and side with one Kingdom, and expect the other Kingdom to just over run who we take sides with. The Kingdom we take sides with, is the one that will rule over us. So, it's not that God could not just squash the devil and do what God really wants to do. However, If God did that, He would have to violate his own Word, and eternal spiritual laws He set fourth. Those Laws work for people, or they work against, everything is being upheld by the Word of his power, and God is not changing what is already been declared. Some think Sovereign means God is an outlaw, and does what He wants, when He wants. Sovereign to God is that He had it all planed out perfectly the first time, spoke, and the right thing stood fast and correct though eternity. By Faith, the word used for "limit" in Ps. 78:41 is hitav-oo and it means to "grieve." it doesn't mean that God was limited. My eyes are not closed. I just don't buy into your false teaching that seems to diminish the sovereignty of God I already told you that you would say the scripture does not mean that. Tavah -scraping the pieces together through confusion and grief was translated limited in the YLT (Youngs litteral) the KJV the Web Bible NLT translates it into frustrated. You can' work with someone who constantly frustrates you. NIV says vexed, something they did. The whole descriptor of the Word and the way it was translated is in line with Hebrews. They did not enter in because of unbelief, and unbelief limits what God can do for someone not in agreement with him. Why???? Let your Sovereign God Doctrine shut your understanding. Sovereign is not even in scriptures, You cling to something not even mentioned, and allow it to shut off understanding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 By Faith, I read and speak Hebrew and I know how this word is used. It is hitav-oo and thus tavah is in the hiphil form. In the hiphil It means to cause pain. It is used here and only here in the Bible and is used to mean that it causes emotional grief. It does not mean, "limit." It doesn't mean that God was unable to operate sovereignly. Yes, they did not get to enjoy what God wanted them to have, but that doesn't mean God was limited. God responded to their unbelief by not allowing them to enter the promised land. But that is not the same thing as we were originally talking about when it Charismatics claim that God is limited by unbelief. Charismatics like the Copelands, Joyce Meyer, Creflo Dollar, Benny Hinn and others believe teach that God is not sovereign that he cannot operate legally in our world and thus if we don't permit him to operate, He cant. They argue that the reason that God offered Abraham a covenant is that God needed the legal right to operate in our world on the grounds that this world belongs to Satan, via the fall of man in the Garden. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
By Faith Posted June 5, 2015 Group: Junior Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 0 Topics Per Day: 0 Content Count: 94 Content Per Day: 0.03 Reputation: 110 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/17/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted June 5, 2015 By Faith, I read and speak Hebrew and I know how this word is used. It is hitav-oo and thus tavah is in the hiphil form. In the hiphil It means to cause pain. It is used here and only here in the Bible and is used to mean that it causes emotional grief. It does not mean, "limit." It doesn't mean that God was unable to operate sovereignly. Yes, they did not get to enjoy what God wanted them to have, but that doesn't mean God was limited. God responded to their unbelief by not allowing them to enter the promised land. But that is not the same thing as we were originally talking about when it Charismatics claim that God is limited by unbelief. Charismatics like the Copelands, Joyce Meyer, Creflo Dollar, Benny Hinn and others believe teach that God is not sovereign that he cannot operate legally in our world and thus if we don't permit him to operate, He cant. They argue that the reason that God offered Abraham a covenant is that God needed the legal right to operate in our world on the grounds that this world belongs to Satan, via the fall of man in the Garden. Will you Stop keeping in your mind all those WOF teachers. This prejudice Hinders talking with you. It started with me saying God is limited by unbelief. You stated God is not limited by unbelief. There is a big disconnect here with post after post before being able to get a connection with you. Nobody said God if He wanted could stick his head through the clouds and say "Everyone bow" and every knee on the planet would hit the ground. No question in my mind, and that would be despite those that did not believe in him. Then you say because of unbelief, God did not give them the things God had planned for them. Certainly God said I am giving you the promise land, then in Numbers 14 God said I am breaching my promise to you. Why? Those people did not trust God in anything, despite God showing himself strong. Had God just taken them to the promise land anyway, it would not have been long they would have lost it all again. So, if God set the system by where Unbelief in Him, makes him say that man will receive nothing of me, then for the person who did not trust God or believe what He had said has limited God by their actions toward God. So, by your last statement (Finally) I agree. You get this idea that by some will of our own we make God do this or that. We limit God through our own ability. That is what appears you think some believe. Faith, does what God says do, not what we want to do. It's only though obedience of faith in What God wanted and said do we see miracles. Not of ourselves, or some force of faith we have. Faith does it God's way, though it may not look like it will work. That is faith, and to think you can march around a city and have it just fall would take that faith. Blessing Shiloh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 Everything you say is in agreement with the same false doctrines and sloppy theology I hear from the WoF teachers. Yes, I said that God is not limited by unbelief. So far you have not provided one Scripture that you haven't misinterpreted and mishandled to prove a false claim about God. God didn't breach his promise. The only people who broke any promises or covenant was Israel, not God. By saying that they limited God, you are diminishing God's sovereignty, no matter how you spin it. Our lack of faith never limits God. It limits our ability to enjoy God. The limit is on our end, not his. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RustyAngeL Posted June 6, 2015 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 23 Topic Count: 155 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 7,464 Content Per Day: 1.02 Reputation: 8,810 Days Won: 57 Joined: 03/30/2004 Status: Offline Birthday: 12/12/1952 Share Posted June 6, 2015 It would be interesting to see this "documentation." The thing is, we normally hear about this stuff after the fact, and no one actually captures an actual resurrection on video of known dead person. It would not be hard to ask someone to get their doctor to officially confirm that they had diagnosed this person as either having cancer, or some other malady or disability. That's what they wanted Benny Hinn's ministry to seek from the people that he claimed has been healed of missing body parts or whatever. But Hinn ignored those requests or when he claimed he would get such documentation, it got lost. What people DON'T want to talk about is how many of these people are "healed" of terminal diseases end up dying from them, anyway. I used to live in Tulsa/Broken Arrow which used to be the headquarters for the charismatic people and it is amazing how many people leave that movement when they discover that this stuff is all deception. The Charismatic movement is a revolving door and people come into it about as fast as other people are leaving it. I mean if I is always God's will to heal, why does Kenneth Hagin Jr. and Bill Johnson still have to wear glasses?? The bottom line is not everyone is healed. I don't understand why some are and why some are not. But being sarcastic about it I think is uncalled for. My friend Katie who passed away from breast cancer believed she could be healed, if that is what God chose to do. The way she looked at it was this. "If God heals me I win, if He doesn't I still win" I would say being with the Lord is winning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D-Dawn Posted June 6, 2015 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 5 Topic Count: 10 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 277 Content Per Day: 0.05 Reputation: 270 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/13/2008 Status: Offline Birthday: 03/23/1967 Share Posted June 6, 2015 I can't let this go...the reason Israel did not go into the Land was because of disobedience primarily. Most of the Old Testament is about Israel's disobedience. God's conditional Covenant had nothing to do with whether the Israelites believed hard enough or not...the condition was obedience. Also, it amazes me how some claim to be healers yet they steer clear of hospitals and poverty stricken places. The majority of the alleged healings seem to take place in particular churches that over-emphasize the Holy Spirit. If Jesus is not the focus of a church, things are not right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MorningGlory Posted June 6, 2015 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 1,022 Topics Per Day: 0.16 Content Count: 39,193 Content Per Day: 6.10 Reputation: 9,977 Days Won: 78 Joined: 10/01/2006 Status: Offline Share Posted June 6, 2015 It's interesting, once again, how none this stuff is EVER actually caught on camera. We always hear about it after the fact. Always. Even when objective groups have tried to truly document these things with Dr.'s reports they can't. No one ever submits to a review of their medical records or anything else to documents that the illnesses were in fact real. No one has ever produced actual medical evidence/proof of one of these extra-ordinary healings. For years, attempts were made documents incredible claims of the false prophet Benny Hinn as to some pretty amazing healing testimonies, but he has resisted any attempt to truly document things like resurrections, and new body parts created and so on, only to be shut out from anyone being able to confirm the accuracy of those reports. Benny Hinn has been discovered over and over to be a false prophet. Same goes for these other healers, who for some reason, can't actually demonstrate the accuracy of their claims. Jesus has nothing to do with it. If Hinn and others are doing these things, and I believe they are, they will have to account for their actions when they stand before the Lord. Wouldn't want to be in their number. Using Jesus to promote yourself and raise money is unbelievably appalling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.thumb.jpg.78a316778a2b75f1377c52957d74a45f.jpg)
Recommended Posts