Defense of the Post-Trib / Pre-Wrath Position

[Uriah]

3 hours ago, WilliamL said:

Don't know where you got your ideas from.

Hi WilliamL

I got it from sooo many people telling me over a long time that 1 Thes 5:9 proves it AND the Vials in Rev 16 ARE the wrath (which it states in the 1st verse) making so we aren't subjected to it.

This is why JoeCanada referred to different versions of pre-wrath. 

And yet Rev 6 and 16 contain the same event: 

ch 6:14- And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.

Ch 16:20- And every island fled away, and the mountains were not found.

Rev 6:17- the great day of his wrath is come

And so yes, I concur. It as at the time Jesus comes as a thief (v.15) and the time to appear on the white horse (v.19:1) at the battle of Armageddon (16:16)

Rev 19:1 depicts the people raptured/resurrected lifted into the sky as Jesus riding to the battle! 

 

 

 

[JoeCanada]

3 hours ago, Uriah said:

Hi WilliamL

I got it from sooo many people telling me over a long time that 1 Thes 5:9 proves it AND the Vials in Rev 16 ARE the wrath (which it states in the 1st verse) making so we aren't subjected to it.

This is why JoeCanada referred to different versions of pre-wrath. 

And yet Rev 6 and 16 contain the same event: 

ch 6:14- And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.

Ch 16:20- And every island fled away, and the mountains were not found.

Hi Uriah

"This is why JoeCanada referred to different versions of pre-wrath."

Not so. This is what I said:... "

Hi Uriah,

Which post trib view do you hold to, as there are several different versions.

Also, verse 6:14 and verse 16:20 do differ:

In verse 6, it is said that every mountain and island were moved out of their places.

In verse 16, it says every island fled away and the mountains were not found.

That is a big difference.

3 hours ago, Uriah said:

Rev 19:1 depicts the people raptured/resurrected lifted into the sky as Jesus riding to the battle! 

Don't think so.

John says "he heard"....not...."he saw.

And what he heard was "in heaven"....... not in the sky on the way to heaven

[Uriah]

49 minutes ago, JoeCanada said:

Not so. This is what I said:... "

Thanks Joe, sorry about that! Should have caught it in review.

49 minutes ago, JoeCanada said:

That is a big difference

I don't think so.

49 minutes ago, JoeCanada said:

John says "he heard"....not...."he saw.

Well they have to be heard FROM where they are.

49 minutes ago, JoeCanada said:

And what he heard was "in heaven"....... not in the sky on the way to heaven

Joe said- John says "he heard"....not...."he saw.

I pasted the exact quote/verse. What I said was, "WE SEE..." Not "he saw". Check that post again.

Yes, "heaven" has more than one meaning. Context in scriptures makes it clear.

Edited January 4, 2023 by Uriah

[Diaste]

7 hours ago, Uriah said:

I don't think so.

I agree 6:14 and 16:20 are the same. The wording is different but the affect is the same. I have had other discussions about this and always wondered how that would work if they were not the same event. 

Were the mountains  and islands regrown to then flee away or not be found at a later time?

The idea of 'fled away' in Rev 16:20 is probably the poetic use of pheugo which means 'to vanish'.

I think the idea Rev 6:14 and 16:20 are not the same come from the problem of the timeline so popular with the western church. If they are the same event the 6th seal and 7th bowl happen in a conjunction of some sort of concurrence. 

And that means the trumps have definitely sounded before the 6th seal. 

And that we just cannot have. [sar]

 

 

[Uriah]

1 hour ago, Diaste said:

And that means the trumps have definitely sounded before the 6th seal.

 

Right, I'd say the seals, trumpets and vials are pretty much simultaneous. Once again, my timeline: (click to enlarge)

 

Edited January 4, 2023 by Uriah

[Diaste]

On 1/4/2023 at 5:48 AM, Uriah said:

 

Right, I'd say the seals, trumpets and vials are pretty much simultaneous. Once again, my timeline: (click to enlarge)

 

I'm still convinced there's 7 years of the end of the age and the A of D is the point at which we are to take up the full strength of spiritual armor in Christ. 

[JoeCanada]

On 1/4/2023 at 4:48 AM, Uriah said:

 

Right, I'd say the seals, trumpets and vials are pretty much simultaneous. Once again, my timeline: (click to enlarge)

 

Do you mean that the seals, trumpets and vials are concurrent?

As in one seal, one trumpet and one vial opening at the same time?

Then another s,t and v opening?

[Uriah]

4 hours ago, JoeCanada said:

Do you mean that the seals, trumpets and vials are concurrent?

As in one seal, one trumpet and one vial opening at the same time?

Then another s,t and v opening?

Pretty much, yes. Although it is really the SIXTH seal that aligns with the trumpets and vials. The other seals hold a different aspect.

 

trumpets and vials 2.pdf

[DeighAnn]

On 1/4/2023 at 5:48 AM, Uriah said:

Right, I'd say the seals, trumpets and vials are pretty much simultaneous. Once again, my timeline: (click to enlarge)

Were the seals or were not the seals opened around 2000 years ago?  It is a book with INFORMATION we need to learn.  That information tells us what is coming but the time of the unsealing is past, though I agree not every event foretold has come to take place.   Or am I just saying what you are saying in a different way?

[Diaste]

I don't think we know much about the 1st half of the week as that isn't as clear as the second half.

I think it's pretty clear Jesus told us what will happen in the 2nd half.

The A of D, then a time where all the elect are in danger of dying a physical death, then those days immediately following the A of D, called great tribulation such as was not nor ever will be, will be cut short; short of the end of the week. Then the gathering occurs and Jesus fights His enemies. 

Post trib is post GT, not post end of the week. That is also pre-wrath as wrath begins when the day of GT are cut short of the end of the last half of the week.

No seals have yet been opened. But it's coming. Soon.