What is the next sign to come?

[thereselittleflower]

 

thereselittleflower said in post 21:

 

And there is nothing requiring that the wailing wall was included.   Even if it was, it was torn down  and what we see today is the wall rebuilt in two stages.

 

Note that this is contradicted later in your post, where you quote:

 

"It is believed that more than half the current wall, including a large below current street level, was constructed around 19 BC by Herod the Great..."

 

 

 

thereselittleflower said in post 21:

 

The remaining layers were added from the 7th century onwards.

 

What is the proof of that? And how does it even effect the non-fulfillment of "not one stone" for the lower layer?

 

 

 

thereselittleflower said in post 21:

 

Additionally, it was not constructed by Herod at all.

 

Again, note that this is contradicted by your own quote above.

 

 

 

thereselittleflower said in post 21:

 

But archaeologists with the Israel Antiquities Authority now say diggers have found coins underneath the massive foundation stones of the compound’s Western Wall that were stamped by a Roman proconsul 20 years after Herod’s death.

 

Part of a treasure buried long after the wall was built?

 

And the wall was still built before Jesus spoke Matthew 24?

 

 

 

thereselittleflower said in post 21:

 

So it is OUTSIDE the temple mount itself, so not part of it, and was built later than the temple.

 

What happened with this wall had nothing to do with Jesus' prophecy.

 

Note that it held up the Temple Mount by the time Jesus spoke Matthew 24, and so was part of temple's "entire precincts" (see post #20 above).

 

Similarly, Matthew 24:2 wasn't referring only to the single, 2nd temple building which stood in the center of the Temple Mount and which contained the holy place and the most holy place, but was referring to "all these things", all the plural "buildings"/structures/oikodome (G3619) of the entire 2nd temple complex (Matthew 24:1). Indeed, Matthew 24:2 could even have been spoken just to the north and west of the Wailing Wall. For it was spoken just after Jesus had departed from the temple complex (Matthew 24:1), and one of the main temple complex exits (called Wilson's Arch and bridge by archaeologists) was just to the north of the Wailing Wall, and at the same level as the top of the Temple Mount (see the temple-complex map-insert in the December, 2008 issue of National Geographic magazine).

 

Also, in Matthew 24:2, the "here" can include not just the entire 2nd temple complex, but every structure throughout Jerusalem. For the similar statement in Luke 19:44 applied to the whole city (Luke 19:41-44). Matthew 24:2 and Luke 19:44 could be fulfilled at the very end of the future tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24, right before and at Jesus' 2nd coming (Zechariah 14:2-21, Revelation 19:7 to 20:6).

 

At the very end of the future tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24, the Antichrist (Daniel 11:45) and the world's armies will pillage Jerusalem right before Jesus' 2nd coming (Zechariah 14:2-21). And at the 2nd coming, there will be tremendous earth changes in the vicinity of Jerusalem (Zechariah 14:4-5). These events could result in all of Jerusalem's structures, including the 3rd temple and the Wailing Wall (also called the Western Wall), being broken down so that not one stone will be left on another (Luke 19:44, Matthew 24:2). Then the returned Jesus (Zechariah 14:4, Acts 1:11-12) will rebuild Jerusalem and make it the capital of the world (Zechariah 14:8-19, Micah 4:1-4). He will also build a 4th temple there (Zechariah 14:20-21, Zechariah 6:12-13). It will serve a similar function for the church during the future millennium (of Revelation 20:4-6) as the 2nd temple served for the church in the 1st century AD (Luke 24:53, Acts 2:46, Acts 22:17), and as the temple building in heaven (Revelation 11:19) serves for those in heaven (Revelation 7:15).

 

 

 

Bible2 I don't think it should be so difficult to follow argumentation that first presents a view held prior to the discovery of the coins under the wall and the adjusted view after the coins were found.

 

In either case, the wailing wall is not what you claim it to be.

 

It is not of the temple mount itself, so is not included in the prophecy Jesus gave of the destruction of the temple.  

 

Additionally what we see today is the result of two eras of rebuilding.

 

Did you even bother to read the article I linked to you about the finding of the coins?  Evidently not, since you think it would be possible to bury coins under a massive wall decades after it was thought to have been built. Do you have any concept of how massive those stones are?  

 

If you had taken the time to read the article, you would have discovered:

 

The coins were found inside a ritual bath that predated construction of the renovated Temple Mount complex and which was filled in to support the new walls, Reich said.

They show that construction of the Western Wall had not even begun at the time of Herod’s death. Instead, it was likely completed only generations later by one of his descendants.

 

But you believe they could have been buried AFTER the wall was constructed?  In a ritual bath that had been filled in?  Under MASSIVE stones?

 

I don't think so.

 

In addition, it is not even thought to have been completed until generations after Herod's death - and all this information about the change in dating etc as a result of finding the coins is from the Israel Antiquities Authority.  

 

I think it is a wiser course of action to take what the archaeologists with the Israel Antiquities Authority have to say as actual experts in the field rather than such wild conjectures as the coins could have been somehow buried under the massive stones of the wall once constructed or what the wailing wall is and isn't.

 

So that it is as clear as I can possibly make it -  the first quote was what was believed BEFORE the coins were found -  and even then the wall was not part of the Temple Mount; and the second quote was AFTER the coins were found, which changes the dating of everything, and even still, the Wailing Wall is not part of the Temple Mount.

 

Your hopes for proving that Jesus' prophecy was not fulfilled in 70 AD because of the wailing wall seem to have no actual foundation.

[Last Daze]

If I was a betting man, I would pick Isaiah 19:4 as the next sign

 

I'll go with Revelation 17:16 followed quickly by Daniel 7:24; i.e. the destruction of the world's capital by the 10 followed by three of them being uprooted by the false prophet.

[Bible2]

thereselittleflower said in post 23:

 

The coins were found inside a ritual bath that predated construction of the renovated Temple Mount complex . . .

 

Why couldn't someone have dug down to bury a treasure there after the building of the wall? They wouldn't have to dig through its huge stones, but could simply dig down through the soil right next to the stones, until they reached the bottom of the stones, and then dig under them. (How do you think the archaeologists reached the coins?) Also, are you aware of Hezekiah's Tunnel, proof of ancient Jewish digging prowess, even through solid rock?

 

Also, what is "the renovated Temple Mount complex"? Who renovated it? And why? And when?

 

After 70 AD? What is the proof of that?

 

And if before 70 AD, then the point is moot, for (whoever built it, or whenever it was built) the Western Wall of the Temple Mount existed at the time Jesus spoke Matthew 24; and so "not one stone" remains unfulfilled, for the reasons given in posts #20 and #22 above.

 

Also, the Jews are not stupid. They do not make a meaningless wall their most holy place of worship on the earth.

[thereselittleflower]

 

thereselittleflower said in post 23:

 

The coins were found inside a ritual bath that predated construction of the renovated Temple Mount complex . . .

 

Why couldn't someone have dug down to bury a treasure there after the building of the wall? They wouldn't have to dig through its huge stones, but could simply dig down through the soil right next to the stones, until they reached the bottom of the stones, and then dig under them. (How do you think the archaeologists reached the coins?) Also, are you aware of Hezekiah's Tunnel, proof of ancient Jewish digging prowess, even through solid rock?

 

Also, what is "the renovated Temple Mount complex"? Who renovated it? And why? And when?

 

After 70 AD? What is the proof of that?

 

And if before 70 AD, then the point is moot, for (whoever built it, or whenever it was built) the Western Wall of the Temple Mount existed at the time Jesus spoke Matthew 24; and so "not one stone" remains unfulfilled, for the reasons given in posts #20 and #22 above.

 

Also, the Jews are not stupid. They do not make a meaningless wall their most holy place of worship on the earth.

 

 

 

My goodness  bible2   Are you even reading anything?    I can't believe you are if you say something like that.

 

You are seriously suggesting that someone dug UNDER MASSIVE blocks of stone - stones that stand well over a man's height,  and then dug INTO the ancient baths that were FILLED IN to support the wall, and put the coins at the BOTTOM of those ancient baths that sit UNDER the wall?

 

We have entered the twilight zone.

 

There is no point in continuing if you can't do the simple courtesy of reading what you are responding to, or think that something as you claim would even be feasible.

[other one]

What sign is next.....

 

[thereselittleflower]

What sign is next.....

 

 

 

Love it.  

[Bible2]

.

[Sister]

Here are the events leading up to the Wrath of God.

 

 

Matthew 24:5   For many shall come in my name, saying, ..I am Christ;.... and shall deceive many.

This is the White Horse, the First Seal

 

Revelation 6:2   And I saw, and behold a white horse: and he that sat on him had a bow; and a crown was given unto him: and he went forth conquering, and to conquer.

This is history for us now.  The rider of this horse was spreading Christ's name, but not according to the truth.  A worldwide "universal" church had arised. They were not claiming to be "Christ" but declared "Christ" saying "he was Christ".  People had no access to the holy scriptures, and they were conquered through religion, taking part in the new rituals and religious practices designed to go with this new doctrine.  Today she is still the largest church worldwide and many many churches have branched out of her keeping close to her traditions and others not keeping her traditions.

Nevertheless, Christ's name was spread to the gentile world, where he was once never heard of.

This horse started running and the first seal was opened about 1700 years or so ago. 

This horse is still running.

This is not the wrath of God but leading up to it.

 

 

  Matthew 24:6   And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.

Now the 2nd horse, ...2nd seal;

 

Revelation 6:3   And when he had opened the second seal, I heard the second beast say, Come and see.
Revelation 6:4   And there went out another horse that was red: and power was given to him that sat thereon to take peace from the earth, and that they should kill one another: and there was given unto him a great sword.

Wars have always been, but not on the same scale as the 1st and 2nd world wars.

This horse started running then, and is still running.

This is not the wrath of God, but leading up to it.

 

 

  Matthew 24:7   For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.
  Now the 3rd horse, ...3rd seal; - WE ARE HERE

Revelation 6:5   And when he had opened the third seal, I heard the third beast say, Come and see. And I beheld, and lo a black horse; and he that sat on him had a pair of balances in his hand.
Revelation 6:6   And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts say, A measure of wheat for a penny, and three measures of barley for a penny; and see thou hurt not the oil and the wine.

We have always had famine in various places, but this one will affect the whole earth.  This will be caused by a collapse in our economies world wide.  The central banks of the whole world are owned by the same small elite group.  They are running the earth and they will collapse this current system on purpose to cause chaos, ....making way for a New World Order.

When this New World Order comes, people will welcome it.  It will be a quick fix, but the intentions are to cause the troublemakers (christians) to be put out of the way for once and for good, because from here on, these times are going to be so evil spiritually, although it will be made to look as if the world is under control.

 

This has not come yet, but when it does, time to prepare for what they do next...

This is not the wrath of God but so close now, because this new guy has to emerge first.

 

 

 

Matthew 24:8   All these are the beginning of sorrows.

The end is at it's doors

 

Revelation 6:7   And when he had opened the fourth seal, I heard the voice of the fourth beast say, Come and see.

Revelation 6:8   And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him. And power was given unto them over the fourth part of the earth, to kill with sword, and with hunger, and with death, and with the beasts of the earth.

The 10 Kings bring in the New World Order.  They will introduce their man to the world, the Son of Perdition.  He has been groomed and all has been prepared for him.  God will let it happen now.  This man "the false prophet" will "rise" to popularity.  He will sway everyone with his smooth words of peace, and the people will elect him to lead because he sounds so good,..... but listen carefully to what he says, God says he will be speaking dark sentences.  Those who do not know the Word of the Lord will not pick up on this.  He is going to speak against the truth and the world will love him.

This is still not the wrath of God yet, but so very close.

 

 

 

Matthew 24:9   Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.
Matthew 24:10   And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.
Matthew 24:11   And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.
Matthew 24:12   And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.
Matthew 24:13   But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

This is the 5th Seal

 

 

Revelation 6:9   And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:

Revelation 6:10   And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?

  Revelation 6:11   And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.

 

Now the wrath begins on the world,...on all those who received the Mark of the Beast and worshiped his image.  God is going to revenge his saints now.

The revenge starts on the 6th seal.

 

 

 

Be strong brothers and sisters.  To not know all this is to be in darkness.  Christ has pre-warned us.  They are persecuting us because we love the Lord.  Satan is behind all this.  I do not look forward to this time, and I wish it would be different, but who am I to question what God has got planned?  Remember the Lord loves us and wants us to love him with our whole heart, soul and mind.  Put him first, don't be proud.  Listen to his instructions, his word washes us clean if we follow what he is saying.  He wants to find us with no spots, he wants us to repent and change all those bad things we hold on to.  Some of those things are obvious, but some we don't even realise.  He wants us to up the ante, walk the talk, lift our game in our daily walk. Love one another is a big one and humbleness he loves.

If we do this, and be prepared to go all the way for him, not being too confident or cocky ...thinking we have eveything nailed, he will spare some of us, that is a fact, but not all can be spared, only a few.  So, feed on Christ's flesh and he will feed us,..... for those who do are the ones who will be sealed.  They are the ones who are following the Lamb, whether Jew or gentile it makes no difference, all these are feeding on the same meat which is the food Christ gives for he is "The Word of God"

 

But let's take the lower seat with all meekness willingly, not the higher seat, in case we are not chosen to be in the elect. 

 

I'm sorry if this all offends you, but please don't be offended, I am only quoting what's already written. 

There is a light that shines in this darkness, so keep all eyes to Christ.

God bless you all.

 

[Last Daze]

Those who have taken Romans 12:2 to heart will fare well.

 

And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.  Romans 12:2

 

Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him. For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world. And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever.  1 John 2:15-17

[Sister]

Those who have taken Romans 12:2 to heart will fare well.

 

And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.  Romans 12:2

 

Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him. For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world. And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever.  1 John 2:15-17

Amen.