should CHRISTIANS OWN WEAPONS OR FIGHT BACK AGAINST THE SYSTEM?

[The_Patriot21]

well, if it was for any kind of selfish gain, I would agree with you hmbld, or if I was to set up the rules, sure, but the Bible does outline when its appropriate-value of life. Like my scenario I listed above, you come across a man, trying to kill a young woman walking home from the store. Either way one of them is going to die...if you stand by and do nothing, that young woman who did nothing, will die, if you intervene, the guy who was trying to murder that person, dies. So either way you look at it, someone died, and either way, you played a part in it, because inaction, is in itself a choice, and if there was something you could do to rescue that lady, and you don't, then your in essence guilty to.

Now, Im not saying you have to carry a gun, or that you should shoot that guy, if you can find a way to intervene and save that girls life without a firearm thats great....but personally, I feel my chances are better with a firearm, and if I have to hurt someone (I really dont want to) Id just as soon do it to that criminal who is trying to murder the person who hasnt done anything wrong.

[oldzimm]

I had to do some catching up on the reading here, what a debate you folks have going on here and at times it seems to be straying from the topic. I totally agree with you Pat, I pray that I will never have to use violence to protect my family or anybody. If the situation to protect should arise, I will use whatever means necessary to protect.

One post did humor me, thanks for the chuckle Bopeep and I'm not saying that in a bad way, you just made me smile (tough day, I needed a smile). Bopeep when you said "If I was standing in the middle of Syria I might need a weapon" I had to smile. Why would it be any different if I were in Syria or downtown USA, evil is all over the world and all around us, I wore the target (American Flag) on my sleeve for nearly a year in Iraq and I was armed to the hilt, my weapons were a rifle, the Holy Bible and prayer. With those weapons I felt that I was well prepared for whatever evil would lie before me. Out of the three I would have to say prayer was my most powerful weapon, every night I prayed to our Father in Heaven to help this old man make it through another day.

Truth be told, after being in a country where I was a target and the way our country is deteriorating today, I feel I was more safer in Iraq then here in my own country and that is sad.

I feel the use if any of those weapons is right and covered under the last line of that sermon I posted earlier (When is it right? To bring about justice. To preserve freedom. To reduce evil in the world).

 

Oldzimm 

[gdemoss]

Pat, you said Jesus used a whip to chase out the money changers.  Can you prove that statement as true for me please?

[The_Patriot21]

Most certainly, John 2:15

 

And making a whip of cords, he drove them all out of the temple, with the sheep and oxen. And he poured out the coins of the money-changers and overturned their tables.

[gdemoss]

Most certainly, John 2:15

 

And making a whip of cords, he drove them all out of the temple, with the sheep and oxen. And he poured out the coins of the money-changers and overturned their tables.

So by this verse you infer that Jesus used a whip to beat people?

[The_Patriot21]

Not at all-the verse does not say that. But, it is an act of violence-you don't have to kill anyone or maim them for it to be violence.

[hmbld]

So at best your example allows a tool commonly used to move animals to be used as it was intended to be used?  Violence is defined as moving livestock?

[oldzimm]

So at best your example allows a tool commonly used to move animals to be used as it was intended to be used?  Violence is defined as moving livestock?

Do you know the number one assault weapon used in the United States is a hammer, is using a hammer to build a home considered violent?

Anything could be used as a weapon when a weapon is needed at the time. Yes using a whip to move livestock can be considered violent, but it sure gets their attention and they move. I have been around livestock for most of my life and I know what may seem cruel to some people is a really a necessity. Cows are some of the most stubbornness creature God has created and a little smack with a whip or a jab with a stick is needed to get their attention. I'm not saying we should beat them half to death, only a fool would do something like that and I would consider that cruelty to animals.

 

Oldzimm  

[hmbld]

My point being the verse states He drive them. Cattle seldom need to be touched to drive them. Are we reading more into the verse than it states?  I can also overturn tables without being violent. 

[oldzimm]

Now think about it, if you are in a room full of people and somebody comes in flailing a whip, do you actually think people will stand there and wait to get hit? Even if nobody was hit with the whip it was still an act of violence. If I go into a room full of people and start shooting up the place without intending to hit anyone, wouldn't that be an act of violence? (I'm sure Mr Policeman would understand it was just for fun. )

 

If you read John 2:15, it really doesn't say if Jesus hit anybody or not, you can only assume he didn't.

 

Oldzimm