People are basically good, right?

[Guest shiloh357]

My point is that with God, thanks to our sinful nature, we are inherently evil, because we are born in original sin. But thanks to be to God who gives us His forgiveness and life!  The wrong belief that people are basically good makes people think that the gospel is a bonus in life, not life that we need, which could not be farther from the truth.  Unless we abide in Him, of ourselves we can do nothing.  Bless God that we live in Him, and He in us!

I would say we are inherently wounded  so that our communion with God is lost.  That does not make us inherently evil.

 

 

Not wounded, dead.  Sin is in and of itself evil. Evil is that which exalts itself against, seeks to defy or in rebellion unto God Most High.  

God bless you.

Yes, we have lost, in the Church today, the realization that we are sinners and what that means.  We have lost the realization of just how ugly sin is and how much God hates it.   We muddy the waters about sin these days, and we stop operating from the biblical assessment of humanity and prefer to a milder, unbiblical approach to sin.     We are dead with out Christ, in trespasses and sins.   We are not wounded, sick or whatever.  We are dead and completely cut off from God.  That's what the Bible teaches.

[AllTheGoodNamesAreTaken]

"Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me. For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it. For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul?"

[Kan]

Jesus said, "If ye being evil know how to give good gifts to your children..." How do evil men know to do good except by a good gift of God to them? "All good gifts come from the Father of lights in whom there is no shadow of turning." Evil men are doing good, why?

Christians are quick to declare all men as evil except the ones that are churched. This is supposed to place them in a privileged position with something to offer others - "come here all you sinners and join us." They even declare themselves "saved" before anyone has reached heaven.

This dramatic contrast to the unsaved, is contradicted by them only being 'accounted' as righteous, while still full time sinners, except with an escape route for guilt called forgiveness. No wonder people are confused.

What Jesus said, agrees with the initial condition of fallen man, that they needed to have some kind of goodness in their lives, and God gave it to them through the "enmity" within -the need for good to conquer evil. That is a gift from God placed there on the basis of the cross.

So God has given the world hope, a conscience, the call of love, the discipline and comfort of the Holy Spirit through the benefits of the cross, past present and future, to all men. Are they aware of it? No they prefer not to inquire by thought. 

Only religions make a difference between their members and the world.

Are people basically good? Yes, we cannot have a functioning world without basic goodness. 

Did you know that correct measurements are a good thing? All functionality is good. Goodness is not an impractical halo, an unemployed monk. Goodness is about meeting real needs, and not giving people lessons in "how to thrill their souls."

The only difference between a believer and non believer, is the conscious choice not to sin, because of the love shed abroad in the heart.

If a person does not know Christ, the love of God may be shed abroad in their hearts in the gratitude for what God has made in nature, and by the good deeds done to them, or by them. The Holy Spirit rewards good deeds for all who do them. He sheds the light of gratitude, comfort and love in people's hearts. That is why the apostles taught to do good to others that the receivers may glorify God in their hearts.

On the day of judgement it will be asked by God, "What did you do with my Gift?" 

"I gave you life, a conscience, nature, the conviction and comforts of my Spirit, my sacrifice to take away the sins of the world, the angels to bring protection and opportunity to appreciate my Gift. I sent you messengers, prophets and the written word, I warned you in disasters, I saved your life so many times, what have you done for me? I allowed the world to have its miseries to wake you up, I faced you with death, I showed the results of sin, you have felt it... and yet you turned down my offers. I caused the sun to shine on all, and gave the rain and food, and you wasted it and caused suffering, for which you blamed and blasphemed me." 

So while all men are fallen and evil by nature, all men are touched by the gifts of God, and therefor are basically kept good. It just happens that sin is so degrading that life is ruined because of it, so that even paradise can be living hell with sin around.

[SavedOnebyGrace]

Indeed, there is not a righteous man on earth who continually does good and who never sins.  [NASB, Ecclesiastes 7:20]

as it is written, "THERE IS NONE RIGHTEOUS, NOT EVEN ONE; [NASB, Romans 3:10]

There is no one righteous, not one by themselves.  It's is by the indwelling of the Holy Spirit that we can even come close to a righteous life.  Jesus paid the price for our sins; past, present and future.  We accept His free gift of salvation by faith, and try to live righteous lives by the power of the Holy Spirit.  Even then, we will not be perfect.

My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous; and He Himself is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for those of the whole world. [1 John 2:1-2]

[RustyAngeL]

On 8/20/2015 at 0:09 PM, Willa said:

People are basically selfish.  People use others for their own advantage and rarely seek the benefit of others.  The reason acts of heroism make the newspaper is because they are not commonplace.  

We become like what we focus on, according the psychiatrists.   So if we focus on Jessie James, or the person who abused us, we become like that person.  But if we focus on Christ we grow to be more like Him.  Praise God!

Heb 12b:1b-2 NKJV  let us run with endurance the race that is set before us, looking unto Jesus, the author and finisher of our faith, who for the joy that was set before Him endured the cross, disposing the shame, and has sat down at the right hand of the throne of God.

2 Cor., 3;18   But we all, with unveiled face, beholding as in a mirror the glory of the Lord, are being transformed into the same image from glory to glory, just as by the Spirit of the Lord.  

 

I think your right to a point Willa.  I always try and give people the benefit of the doubt and see if I can see the best in them.  Sometimes I find the good, sometimes not so much.

[Guest shiloh357]

On ‎2‎/‎26‎/‎2016 at 11:29 PM, Kan said:

 

So while all men are fallen and evil by nature, all men are touched by the gifts of God, and therefor are basically kept good. It just happens that sin is so degrading that life is ruined because of it, so that even paradise can be living hell with sin around.

No, man is not basically good.  All men are born basically evil.   "Goodness"  has to be trained into man. Children have to be taught not to lie, not to be violent, etc.   Man left to his own devices is basically evil.  Man is selfish and prideful by nature.

As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one: There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God. They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one. Their throat is an open sepulchre; with their tongues they have used deceit; the poison of asps is under their lips: Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness: Their feet are swift to shed blood: Destruction and misery are in their ways: And the way of peace have they not known: There is no fear of God before their eyes.  (Rom 3:10-18)

That is the Bible's assessment of man's basic nature.   Man is in rebellion against God. Nowhere does the Bible teach that man is basically good.  

[Kan]

37 minutes ago, shiloh357 said:

No, man is not basically good.  All men are born basically evil.   "Goodness"  has to be trained into man. Children have to be taught not to lie, not to be violent, etc.   Man left to his own devices is basically evil.  Man is selfish and prideful by nature.

As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one: There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God. They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one. Their throat is an open sepulchre; with their tongues they have used deceit; the poison of asps is under their lips: Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness: Their feet are swift to shed blood: Destruction and misery are in their ways: And the way of peace have they not known: There is no fear of God before their eyes.  (Rom 3:10-18)

That is the Bible's assessment of man's basic nature.   Man is in rebellion against God. Nowhere does the Bible teach that man is basically good.  

I did not say men are basically good...

"So while all men are fallen and evil by nature, all men are touched by the gifts of God, and therefor are basically kept good. It just happens that sin is so degrading that life is ruined because of it, so that even paradise can be living hell with sin around."

There is a difference between being "kept good" by God and being "good." Only God is good.

And behavioral training does not make a child good, it just makes them well behaved. Nevertheless a child is generally better than an adult, because they are allowing more of the life of God flow through them uninhibited. That is why doing harm to a child, or trying to use them for personal gain is unforgivable. 

[Guest shiloh357]

17 minutes ago, Kan said:

I did not say men are basically good...

 

From your post above:  "Are people basically good? Yes, we cannot have a functioning world without basic goodness."

[enoob57]

I think the overall can be assessed quite easily in present times.... when self centeredness is held
in restriction by self striving to keep existence >a tension< of slow decline can be seen \! Example:
The pollution of the world is becoming more apparent that if a radical change in Babylonian
system structure - gold, silver, precious jewels being of greater importance than basic material
of agricultural necessity for continued food supply to future generations- our natural direction
appearing good is actually death on a slow moving wheel of turning... hence the self centered
living in a system of false equality will have it's day in court. The Tribulation....  Love, Steven

[MorningGlory]

8 minutes ago, enoob57 said:

I think the overall can be assessed quite easily in present times.... when self centeredness is held
in restriction by self striving to keep existence >a tension< of slow decline can be seen \! Example:
The pollution of the world is becoming more apparent that if a radical change in Babylonian
system structure - gold, silver, precious jewels being of greater importance than basic material
of agricultural necessity for continued food supply to future generations- our natural direction
appearing good is actually death on a slow moving wheel of turning... hence the self centered
living in a system of false equality will have it's day in court. The Tribulation....  Love, Steven

Amen, Steven.