Why did God create evil?

[Sister]

it does neither giver clear enough evidence of certitude that the angels existed before God began

 the creation of the universe and would be in contradiction

with Genesis ch2:4:4- This is the history of THE HEAVENS and the earth WHEN they were created, 

Genesis ch2:1,4

1-Thus the heavens and the earth and all the host of them, were finished.

2- And on the seventh day God  ended His work which He had done,

and He rested on the seventh day from ALL His work which He had done.

3- then God blessed the seventh day and sanctified it, because in it He rested

from ALL His work which God had created and made.

4-That is the history of the heavens and the earth when they were created, in the day

that the Lord God made the earth and the heavens

 1to3

Please note: I have deleted my whole post. I have to look at what I said again with fresh eyes.  I could be wrong big time. Also re the star formation article I found on the net,  I was not aware it was from an evolution site.  I'm not convinced that it takes 10 million years to form a star as God can bring it into existence with just his command.  Thank you sister.

 

Edited September 2, 2015 by Sister

[1to3]

Dear Sister;

As a believer of the Word of God, I stick to the Word of God as my reference.

Other outside knowledge about creation away from holy Scripture can be factual or not but the Word of God stands as my first and only Truth to have faith and confidence in.

Science, astrologers, soothsayers may have a part of creation truth of God, but God in holy scripture tells us to rely in Him and His word alone,

as man and his words can be deceptive and taking away from our obedience and honor and faith in  God alone.

 

if we look at John ch1:1,2

-1 In the BEGINNING, was the WORD,and the WORD was with GOD, and the WORD was GOD.

-2 He(Christ Jesus) was in the beginning with God.

 

After the beginning that is :God the Father,Son, Holy Spirit  comes God creating .

 

Genesis ch2:1-4 tells us when God began CREATING

Genesis ch2:1,4

1-Thus the heavens and the earth and all the host of them, were finished.

2- And on the seventh day God  ended His work which He had done,

and He rested on the seventh day from ALL His work which He had done.

3- then God blessed the seventh day and sanctified it, because in it He rested

from ALL His work which God had created and made.

4-That is the history of the heavens and the earth when they were created, in the day

that the Lord God made the earth and the heavens

 

That, that was Gods CREATION TIME of both HEAVEN-S- and EARTH.

That to me is quite clear that ALL of CREATION was accomplished in the CREATION TIME of GOD.

To begin to create -change- TIME needs to be, as it is an unfolding of equations put into matter.

In the BEGINNING= ETERNAL ZONE =IS =ETERNITY =IS the I AM=GOD=

Conscious intelligence=the complete equation= maker of ALL equations.

The heavens, the earth, the planets, the stars, the galaxies ALL of Gods creation was created AFTER  and IN the creation Time zone.

The bridge (pathway) made available to us into the eternal no time zone is Christ Jesus.

Addendum:

God reference of time is not completely understood by our concept of time.

See:

Psalm 90

-1 Lord You have been our dwelling place in all generations.

-2 Before the mountains were brought forth.

Or ever. You had formed the earth and the WORLD

Even from everlasting to everlasting You are God.

-3 You turn man back into dust And say, "Return, O children of men." 4For a thousand years in Your sight Are like yesterday when it passes by...

2 Peter 3:8

But beloved , do not forget this one thing,

that which the Lord one day is as a thousand years.

and a thousand years as one day

 

Edited September 1, 2015 by 1to3
adding on another note,

[Sister]

Enoob

I'm sorry I got upset with you.  I am normally quite thick skinned but have my moments.

I had to look up the word exegetical.  I don't approach the scriptures like a theologian, I just say what's on my mind with scripture in mind, thinking everybody is on the same page.  It's good that you challenge me because it makes me go back to the scriptures to see how I got to my conclusion and go over it again.

There's some things I just can't prove.  I don't see the scriptures like reading a newspaper with all the details in it.  I see them as something we have to seek in order to be given understanding from above....otherwise no one would seek and everyone would know everything plain as day.  The hidden jewels don't come that easy.

 Isaiah 28:13   But the word of the LORD was unto them precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little; that they might go, and fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken.

Anyway, sorry brother I hope you will forgive me for being short with you. 

 

[enoob57]

Enoob

I'm sorry I got upset with you.  I am normally quite thick skinned but have my moments.

I had to look up the word exegetical.  I don't approach the scriptures like a theologian, I just say what's on my mind with scripture in mind, thinking everybody is on the same page.  It's good that you challenge me because it makes me go back to the scriptures to see how I got to my conclusion and go over it again.

There's some things I just can't prove.  I don't see the scriptures like reading a newspaper with all the details in it.  I see them as something we have to seek in order to be given understanding from above....otherwise no one would seek and everyone would know everything plain as day.  The hidden jewels don't come that easy.

 Isaiah 28:13   But the word of the LORD was unto them precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little; that they might go, and fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken.

Anyway, sorry brother I hope you will forgive me for being short with you. 

 

Loved one I as you and others are under a mandate to Love God back through obedience to his Word...
John 16:1
These things have I spoken unto you, that ye should not be offended
KJV
by the study of God's Words I am not to be able in offense nor am I to offend
Rom 14:21-22
21 It is good neither to eat flesh, nor to drink wine, nor any thing whereby thy
brother stumbleth, or is offended, or is made weak. 22 Hast thou faith? have
it to thyself before God. Happy is he that condemneth not himself in that thing
which he alloweth.
KJV
So I forgave you before you asked but now I tell you thank you for your humble submission before these
fine people
We all have short comings to the understandings of God's Word within us... also a finding of this is when
we believe an understanding, within, base on God's Word and have an offense when it is challenged - we need
to study what we have more deeply-> for it should be as from God with no offense but merely what shall be...
Love, Steven
 

 

[enoob57]

Not going to debate what the Bible clearly teaches that hell is the place where the condemned will suffer forever.

JohnD
The clarity within hell will be and increasing of needs with no fulfillment and within a flame where  no escape can be found forever...
Those not there but In Life with God shall have no knowledge in this for in the New Life with God-He shall wipe away all tears in eternal state!
 Now whatever you wish to add or take away from this truth I believe within the Scriptures go ahead   Love, Steven

 

Please show me in Scripture where there is beginning before Gen 1:1 ?
Your poor exegetical skill is evident in the very simple reasoning of Gen 1:1 "in the beginning" -> this is a conclusive statement
of the communication of God to all that had beginning! Even a child knows God has no beginning yet that same child  knows
angels began, heaven and earth began, man began...  "In the beginning" encompasses all that began and is written to that which
has beginning! Context Gen 1:1 is God's Word to that of beginning ... to the eternal state Rev 22:17 all will be judged within these
parameters of God's Word to His creation!

Enoob

You've missed something very important;

 Genesis 1:1   In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
(THIS IS ALL BEFORE DAY ONE.  HEAVEN IS MADE FIRST AND THEN ALL THE ANGELS ARE CREATED.  THE EARTH IS MADE BUT NOT COMPLETED.  THE EARTH IS JUST SITTING THERE WITHOUT FORM AND VOID FOR HOW MANY YEARS WE DON'T KNOW, COULD BE THOUSANDS, OR MILLIONS OF YEARS)

NOTE: THE HEAVEN - NOT THE HEAVENS.  So when God started creating, he did not start with us but first completed heaven with his heavenly host.

Now start counting, day 1 starts here;

 Genesis 1:2   And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters. (THE EARTH IS ALREADY SITTING THERE, A GREAT BIG BALL FULL OF WATER.  BEEN THERE FOR A LONG LONG TIME, NOW HE STARTS FORMING IT)

 Genesis 1:3   And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.
 Genesis 1:4   And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.
 Genesis 1:5   And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.
 

Now according to your reasoning Lucifer was made on day 1? 

Ezekiel 28:14   Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.

Ezekiel 28:15   Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.

Ezekiel 28:17   Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty, thou hast corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness: I will cast thee to the ground, I will lay thee before kings, that they may behold thee.

All that wisdom and beauty he had was only for a very very short time?  His experience and authority in heaven was only what, a few weeks, or few months? maybe even a few years?  Lucifer is only a babe then according to you?  Sorry this doesn't gel, Genesis is only giving an account of the creation of earth and the universe.  Just because it doesn't give details of before that doesn't mean it wasn't already created. 

(forgiven)

 

 I just need Scripture to fundamentally back up your statements!
Like before day one? Was God and God 'IS' Spirit in Substance
John 4:24
24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.
KJV

Isa 46:9
Remember the former things of old: for I am God, and there is none else; I am God,
and there is none like me,
KJV
because we are born in this creation of beginning we with our senses forming thoughts into mind
cannot reason past this but being born of God with His Spirit we are set free to accept that which
we cannot receive with our five sense formed into faith that will become clear when we are with
Him (Jesus)... now we merely wait to where the scripture takes us (objectively through hermeneutic
principles) in growth through sanctification by the self same Word written and Spirit taught...
Love, Steven

[Sister]

 

 

 I just need Scripture to fundamentally back up your statements!
Like before day one? Was God and God 'IS' Spirit in Substance
John 4:24
24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.
KJV

Isa 46:9
Remember the former things of old: for I am God, and there is none else; I am God,
and there is none like me,
KJV
because we are born in this creation of beginning we with our senses forming thoughts into mind
cannot reason past this but being born of God with His Spirit we are set free to accept that which
we cannot receive with our five sense formed into faith that will become clear when we are with
Him (Jesus)... now we merely wait to where the scripture takes us (objectively through hermeneutic
principles) in growth through sanctification by the self same Word written and Spirit taught...
Love, Steven

 

Hi Enoob

Thank you for your humble forgiveness!

Now for me to give scripture showing why I believe that heaven was already established with all the angels before God started creating the earth is what I explained to 1to3.

I will paste it again;

 

That whole chapter to me is very clear that it is speaking of the creation of the earth.

 

 Job 38:1   Then the LORD answered Job out of the whirlwind, and said,

  Job 38:2   Who is this that darkeneth counsel by words without knowledge?

  Job 38:3   Gird up now thy loins like a man; for I will demand of thee, and answer thou me.

  Job 38:4   Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding.

  Job 38:5   Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it?

  Job 38:6   Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof;

  Job 38:7   When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?

 

God was asking Job, was he there when the foundations of the earth were laid? 

....and then he goes on to ask Job, on what are the foundations fastened on, or who laid the corner stone? 

....when the morning stars sand together  and all the sons of God shouted for joy.  At that same time when the foundations were being laid (of the earth)

This tells me that at the beginning of creation (of the earth) the angels were watching when they all shouted for joy. Now the foundations being laid could even be the plans, the design of the earth with it's measurements.  I don't know for sure, but the cornerstone being laid was the start of this building called earth.

 

Now, one could say that God started with the heavens and the earth on day 1.  That means if the angels were created on day one, then they were just newborn freshly made babes!  Where does this leave room for Lucifer to be walking amongst the fiery stones (in heaven), being the annointed covering cherub full of wisdom?   To me he must have experience in heaven to know God's ways and how he operates.  He's been watching and being taught of God..  His wisdom and beauty made him puffed up.  This seems unreasonable to happen overnight, but over time seems more possible.  This is my reasoning, which I cannot prove with scripture.

Like Job, we were not there either when the foundations were laid. We can only go by what is written, and I know that Genesis gives an account of the 6 days creation of the earth. 

Day 1. God started with the light for the day and darkness for the night.

Day 2. The firmament.

Day 3.  The dry land and the seas separated, the grass, the herb and fruit trees etc created.

Day 4.  The lights for the night, the stars, the moon.

Day 5.  The creatures in the waters, and the fowls that fly created,

Day 6.  The land animals and finally man created.

I don't see any account in there of the angels being made within the 6 days.  So proving that the angels were not created within this time frame is easier than proving that they did because there is no account for it, and therefore cannot be based on scripture, because it's simply not there.  To say they were created in this time frame, is in my opinion adding to scripture where it clearly does not state.

So this is why we have to reason, and reason cannot be based solely on whats written in scripture but with understanding which only God can give us through the spirit of truth, and yes I agree one day it will be as clear as day!

 

 

Edited September 3, 2015 by Sister

[Ezra]

 

It was through the eating of the fruit of this latter tree, at Satan’s instigation, that evil contaminated the human race and the goodness of creation was corrupted.

Deborah,

Did you notice how this writer tip-toed around the origin of evil, and then threw Satan into the mix right at the end? It was the rebellion of Lucifer which created ha Satan -- the Adversary whom we call Satan or the Devil -- that brought sin and evil into the universe, and then into humanity.  But both Adam and Eve had free wills and could have chosen strict obedience or flagrant disobedience. Because God gave men and angels free will, none can hold God responsible for evil in the universe. God HATES iniquity.  But He knew it would enter into His universe for a season, and He allowed it to make known His own grace and glory through the Lord Jesus Christ.

[Hall7]

WHY DID GOD CREATE EVIL? Can someone counsel me on the reason why God created evil. I believe that the eyes of God is too pure to behold evil, I desire to know the reason why God created evil. your contribution can be of help.

Not sure if anyone has said this on this thread yet because I haven't read all the replies but here is my take on that question-

Everything God created was good, the devil wasn't always evil and wasn't known by that name nor had an evil mind when he was created, he was one of the good guys until- Evil created itself out of pride, a prideful angel who thought himself better than God and in turn became evil-  After God created man and the fall of man, He decided to use this fallen angel as a tool here on Earth, for many good reasons as stated in the above replies-

[enoob57]

 

 

 I just need Scripture to fundamentally back up your statements!
Like before day one? Was God and God 'IS' Spirit in Substance
John 4:24
24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.
KJV

Isa 46:9
Remember the former things of old: for I am God, and there is none else; I am God,
and there is none like me,
KJV
because we are born in this creation of beginning we with our senses forming thoughts into mind
cannot reason past this but being born of God with His Spirit we are set free to accept that which
we cannot receive with our five sense formed into faith that will become clear when we are with
Him (Jesus)... now we merely wait to where the scripture takes us (objectively through hermeneutic
principles) in growth through sanctification by the self same Word written and Spirit taught...
Love, Steven

 

Hi Enoob

Thank you for your humble forgiveness!

Now for me to give scripture showing why I believe that heaven was already established with all the angels before God started creating the earth is what I explained to 1to3.

I will paste it again;

 

That whole chapter to me is very clear that it is speaking of the creation of the earth.

 

 Job 38:1   Then the LORD answered Job out of the whirlwind, and said,

  Job 38:2   Who is this that darkeneth counsel by words without knowledge?

  Job 38:3   Gird up now thy loins like a man; for I will demand of thee, and answer thou me.

  Job 38:4   Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding.

  Job 38:5   Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it?

  Job 38:6   Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof;

  Job 38:7   When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?

 

God was asking Job, was he there when the foundations of the earth were laid? 

....and then he goes on to ask Job, on what are the foundations fastened on, or who laid the corner stone? 

....when the morning stars sand together  and all the sons of God shouted for joy.  At that same time when the foundations were being laid (of the earth)

This tells me that at the beginning of creation (of the earth) the angels were watching when they all shouted for joy. Now the foundations being laid could even be the plans, the design of the earth with it's measurements.  I don't know for sure, but the cornerstone being laid was the start of this building called earth.

 

Now, one could say that God started with the heavens and the earth on day 1.  That means if the angels were created on day one, then they were just newborn freshly made babes!  Where does this leave room for Lucifer to be walking amongst the fiery stones (in heaven), being the annointed covering cherub full of wisdom?   To me he must have experience in heaven to know God's ways and how he operates.  He's been watching and being taught of God..  His wisdom and beauty made him puffed up.  This seems unreasonable to happen overnight, but over time seems more possible.  This is my reasoning, which I cannot prove with scripture.

Like Job, we were not there either when the foundations were laid. We can only go by what is written, and I know that Genesis gives an account of the 6 days creation of the earth. 

Day 1. God started with the light for the day and darkness for the night.

Day 2. The firmament.

Day 3.  The dry land and the seas separated, the grass, the herb and fruit trees etc created.

Day 4.  The lights for the night, the stars, the moon.

Day 5.  The creatures in the waters, and the fowls that fly created,

Day 6.  The land animals and finally man created.

I don't see any account in there of the angels being made within the 6 days.  So proving that the angels were not created within this time frame is easier than proving that they did because there is no account for it, and therefore cannot be based on scripture, because it's siply not there.  To say they were created in this time frame, is in my opinion adding to scripture where it clearly does not state.

So this is why we have to reason, and reason cannot be based solely on whats written in scripture but with understanding which only God can give us through the spirit of truth, and yes I agree one day it will be as clear as day!

 

 

 

There is nothing in the hermeneutic of Genesis to allow this kind of thinking... you see I believe that when
God had His Word written down it was for all mankind down through the ages... therefore in that reasoning
there are strict laws of writing that must be adhered to-in order for you  to arrive at same meaning as written
source. This is called hermeneutics and I believe it is the most important begin in understanding literary
sense of what God's distinct meanings are in the whole of Scripture....

Your last statement of
(") reason cannot be based solely on whats written in scripture (")
I fear for your heart in this... your saying Scripture is not enough or you need outside source to complete the
reasoning of things. God says this is incorrect by this verse
2 Tim 3:15-17
15 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make
thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus. 16 All scripture is given
by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for
instruction in righteousness: 17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly
furnished unto all good works.
this last portion of the writ 'thoroughly furnished unto all good works' may be understood  that the Scripture is
all we need to maintain Godly understanding, thoughts, activities, works till we enter His presence... Scripture
expressly states you are not to add one iota to anything that is written Rev 22:18. You  may of course do as
you wish but I will stay with within the boundaries of what God has written for God in His Word has given me
no place else for my feet to trod and remain in His path... 
Ps 119:105
 Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path.
KJV
I seriously suggest you study Ps 119 with all meditative diligence and pray God grant you repentance for the
direction of your thoughts...      Love, Steven  

Edited September 3, 2015 by enoob57

[jmldn2]

Why would God create evil when He hates even the appearance of anything evil?  I believe evil came into existence through the pride of Satan.  Satan wanted to be like God.  Satan was puffed up with pride.  Do we not see such actions in today's world?