Why is Eternal Life a Free Gift?

[enoob57]

Rev 22:18
18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:
KJV
 

Yes, that's what John said about the Book of Revelation.

It scares me to see how much people add to, and take away from, that book.

 

 

The seal of Revelation is much deeper than just  the book... for in context the prophetic utterance goes into the eternal state-
all of anything that was is now swallowed up and burnt up and the new heaven and new earth in The fullness of God is realized...
Here lies the prophetic utterance of adding and taking away and is the eternal seal of God's Word to man and it is enough for
this to be true
2 Tim 3:16-17
16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine,
for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: 17 That the man
of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.
KJV
Oral tradition outside of God's Word is the addition warned of and one who relies on it receives what is warned about...
Love, Steven
 

I am sorry enoob, but to apply the words in Revelation to the entire bible is simply a matter of interpretation, and not what the original writer intended.

The BOOK of Revelation is the BOOK John referred to when he said  THIS BOOK.

Revelation 22:18

And I solemnly declare to everyone who hears the words of prophecy written in this book: 

 

You are adding to the words of the BOOK of Revelation by making those words apply to all of scripture.

 

 

 

But the Spirit of God intended all that John had witnessed, is witnessing, and was shown to be...
Rev 1:19
19 Write the things which thou hast seen, and the things which are, and the things which shall be hereafter;
KJV
Love, Steven

Again, you are personally interpreting these passages in a particular way, but there is nothing mandating such interpretation.

 

 

Within the hermeneutic:
1. 'which thou hast seen'  as John was of the OT period seeing God The Son bringing into a living format the NT covenant.
2. 'Things which are' as John was were he was as a living epistle with The Holy Spirit able to recall perfectly his past and present.
3. 'Things which shall be hereafter' God in His revelation of all things to the eternal state.
the mandate becomes itself in the written Scripture becoming the hermeneutic of letting the passage (book) speak for itself...
as this is the introductory of the written that follows- composing the specific of said book thus placing the seal of books end
upon the introductory purpose of writing in its begin.  Love, Steven

This is all simply your personal interpretation.  

Nothing more.

 

 

It is what the Scripture says your unwillingness to stay within it's boundaries contextually is your sway to a religious bent.
And this you are saying has no backing at all "oral tradition" ... it is an affront to the Biblical witness of itself, saying, that The
Scripture is enough for all godliness enabling a life to satisfy God by walking within its boundaries...   Love, Steven 

[thereselittleflower]

Rev 22:18
18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:
KJV
 

Yes, that's what John said about the Book of Revelation.

It scares me to see how much people add to, and take away from, that book.

 

 

The seal of Revelation is much deeper than just  the book... for in context the prophetic utterance goes into the eternal state-
all of anything that was is now swallowed up and burnt up and the new heaven and new earth in The fullness of God is realized...
Here lies the prophetic utterance of adding and taking away and is the eternal seal of God's Word to man and it is enough for
this to be true
2 Tim 3:16-17
16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine,
for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: 17 That the man
of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.
KJV
Oral tradition outside of God's Word is the addition warned of and one who relies on it receives what is warned about...
Love, Steven
 

I am sorry enoob, but to apply the words in Revelation to the entire bible is simply a matter of interpretation, and not what the original writer intended.

The BOOK of Revelation is the BOOK John referred to when he said  THIS BOOK.

Revelation 22:18

And I solemnly declare to everyone who hears the words of prophecy written in this book: 

 

You are adding to the words of the BOOK of Revelation by making those words apply to all of scripture.

 

 

 

But the Spirit of God intended all that John had witnessed, is witnessing, and was shown to be...
Rev 1:19
19 Write the things which thou hast seen, and the things which are, and the things which shall be hereafter;
KJV
Love, Steven

Again, you are personally interpreting these passages in a particular way, but there is nothing mandating such interpretation.

 

 

Within the hermeneutic:
1. 'which thou hast seen'  as John was of the OT period seeing God The Son bringing into a living format the NT covenant.
2. 'Things which are' as John was were he was as a living epistle with The Holy Spirit able to recall perfectly his past and present.
3. 'Things which shall be hereafter' God in His revelation of all things to the eternal state.
the mandate becomes itself in the written Scripture becoming the hermeneutic of letting the passage (book) speak for itself...
as this is the introductory of the written that follows- composing the specific of said book thus placing the seal of books end
upon the introductory purpose of writing in its begin.  Love, Steven

This is all simply your personal interpretation.  

Nothing more.

 

 

It is what the Scripture says your unwillingness to stay within it's boundaries contextually is your sway to a religious bent.
And this you are saying has no backing at all "oral tradition" ... it is an affront to the Biblical witness of itself, saying, that The
Scripture is enough for all godliness enabling a life to satisfy God by walking within its boundaries...   Love, Steven 

The bible is not one book

It is a collection of many books - a mini library bound between two covers.

The book of Revelation is ONE book of many

The words in the book of Revelation were written before there was a NT even.

You are presenting your interpretation, making words written about ONE book and trying to focrce them to include all the books in the bible.   I disagree with that approach as John obviously did not have that in mind as there was not yet a canon of scripture, so scripture was not yet closed.

 

We will have to agree to disagree.

 

 

[enoob57]

 

It is what the Scripture says your unwillingness to stay within it's boundaries contextually is your sway to a religious bent.
And this you are saying has no backing at all "oral tradition" ... it is an affront to the Biblical witness of itself, saying, that The
Scripture is enough for all godliness enabling a life to satisfy God by walking within its boundaries...   Love, Steven 

The bible is not one book

It is a collection of many books - a mini library bound between two covers.

The book of Revelation is ONE book of many

The words in the book of Revelation were written before there was a NT even.

You are presenting your interpretation, making words written about ONE book and trying to focrce them to include all the books in the bible.   I disagree with that approach as John obviously did not have that in mind as there was not yet a canon of scripture, so scripture was not yet closed.

 

We will have to agree to disagree.

What I showed you is within the book of Revelation and how it pertained to the what God had shown
to John, past=OT fulfilled in Christ, present=NT Church being formed, future=all the way to eternal state.
This is what the book states its about and then at the end it is sealed by God not John but God... The
written Scripture is all God intended us to foundation ourselves upon John 1... Love, Steven
 

[Reinitin]

On 9/14/2015 at 2:41 PM, Riverwalker said:

It is a free gift simply because it cannot be earned. There is no task we can do, there is no price we can pay.

That does not mean Salvation comes without a cost.  We must be willing to sacrifice our life and our will to follow the will of God

 

Romans 12:I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that you present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable to God, which is your reasonable service. 2 And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God.

 

I think what people forget and where an obstacle of understanding sometimes stands is in understand it is the finished man in the image and likeness of God is made new  in incorruptible flesh with all things made new living eternally with Christ. People try to make this sinful flesh and world that is destined for the grave worthy of his eternal kingdom and it living eternally at peace with God. His gift freely given Is the eternal waters of life and to be made by Him a new creation in Christ. We are all gonna die in the flesh cause the flesh is sinful and this world will be destroyed purified and made new. But Now we can choose to live and die in the mercies and grace of Christ or live and die in rebellion and sin with no hope of new creation. 

[Guest Thallasa]

On ‎14‎/‎09‎/‎2015 at 10:23 PM, Omegaman 3.0 said:

 

I am not a fan of the term Calvinism, as Calvin had some character flaws, and there was much more to Calvin's theology than just just doctrines about election and free will, grace and works, predestination, etc, etc.

Of course, numbers of adherents say nothing about what is true and what is not, If theological truth was up for a democratic vote, then Jesus would be wrong on this point:

" “Enter through the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is broad that leads to destruction, and there are many who enter through it. 14“For the gate is small and the way is narrow that leads to life, and there are few who find it."

Of course the name Calvinism aside, you have correctly identified my thought with a set of teaching I prefer to call reformed theology.

Of course as one who seems focused on the ideas held in Roman Catholicism, I would not expect you to share my position. I do think that reformed theology is consistant with the Bible, and the ideas contained in it, are expressed in pretty clear terms if one really examines it open mindedly, and is willing to accept scripture at face value, without trying to impose instinct and human pride and limited logic to how we think the Bible should read, but to me, what is says is more important. 

I am ashamed to say, that for probably the first three decades of my life as a believer, I failed to see what Paul, John, et all, were saying, so I am kind of late to the party.

I think your comment

OMM , Very interesting, the idea of free choice, against free will .  Would you care to expand a little ? 

[Guest Thallasa]

On ‎21‎/‎09‎/‎2015 at 7:38 AM, thereselittleflower said:

 

I have to disagree with you about the surest way to communicate.  Written language can be ambiguous and unclear.   When one teaches by speaking one has the chance for feedback and clarification.    Even written language changes in meaning from when it was first written and people thousands of years later have difficulty understanding what was written.  I found I had to ask, if scriptures alone are enough, then why is there is so much disagreement on what the written word says in protestantism, and no universal agreement on basic doctrines such as salvation?   If scripture alone was sufficient, there should not be division upon division upon division on and on and on as we have seen since the Reformation in protestantism.

If scripture alone was able to convey all that was needed for christians, then there would be agreement on such basic doctrines, but there isn't.  I found the very nature of all these disagreements with scripture alone cries out for attention to be paid to Paul's command to us:

2 Thessalonians 2:15 

So then, brothers and sisters, stand firm and hold fast to the teachings we passed on to you, whether by word of mouth or by letter.

 

Is God unable to preserve what was spoken but only what was written?  

That would make no sense.

 

 

 

 

 

 Then I entirely disagree with Paul . The idea that the O.T. and Paul's teachings, are above and beyond the Gospels

of Jesus Christ, is in my opinion heresy of the first order ,and calls into question Paul ,and those who would accept this ?

[thereselittleflower]

1 minute ago, Thallasa said:

 Then I entirely disagree with Paul . The idea that the O.T. and Paul's teachings, are above and beyond the Gospels

of Jesus Christ, is in my opinion heresy of the first order ,and calls into question Paul ,and those who would accept this ?

I don't understand how you got "O.T. and Paul's teachings" are above the Gospels from what I said?

 

[Guest Thallasa]

On ‎29‎/‎09‎/‎2015 at 6:02 AM, thereselittleflower said:

This is all simply your personal interpretation.  

Nothing more.

 

 

   Finally ,it's only yours too ,that is personal .Just because someone else says it ,your acceptance of it makes it personal.   

[thereselittleflower]

Just now, Thallasa said:

   Finally ,it's only yours too ,that is personal .Just because someone else says it ,your acceptance of it makes it personal.   

But what do we base it on?  

 

 

[Omegaman 3.0]

On 2/9/2016 at 3:47 PM, Thallasa said:

OMM , Very interesting the idea of frre choice against free will .  Would you care to expand a little ? 

Well just a little.

I think we are all used to experiencing the exercise of our will. As nearly as we can tell, we are not coerced to think or act in certain ways.  However our free will does have some limitations. I might be able to make some decisions, like at a restaraunt, I might order a medium steak, instead of one well done. That kind of choice is open to me, and I have no reason the think that choice is not mine alone. Personally, I would not choose a raw steak.

On the other hand, if I was at a zoo and I placed a raw steak in front of a lion, and another in front of a zebra, the lion would likely eat the steak, but the zebra probably would not. Could they both choose to eat steak? Yes, they could. Why would I think the lion would, but the zebra would not?

The answer lies in their natures. By nature, the lion eats meat, by nature, the zebra avoids it. We also have nature. We have a sinful nature. That sin nature makes us slaves to sin, and slaves to not have totally free choice. 

Check here to see instances where our sinful nature is referred to.

Roman 6: 20 For when you were slaves of sin, you were free in regard to righteousness. 21 Therefore what benefit were you then deriving from the things of which you are now ashamed? For the outcome of those things is death. 22 But now having been freed from sin and enslaved to God, you derive your benefit, resulting in sanctification, and the outcome, eternal life. 23 For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Now, God also has a nature, He has a righteous nature. I might shock you to realize, that there are things that you and I can do, that God cannot do.

Example, Titus 1:2

1 Paul, a bond-servant of God and an apostle of Jesus Christ, for the faith of those chosen of God and the knowledge of the truth which is according to godliness, 2 in the hope of eternal life, which God, who cannot lie, promised long ages ago, 3 but at the proper time manifested, even His word, in the proclamation with which I was entrusted according to the commandment of God our Savior.

Everything does what it does, within it's own nature. That limits our real choices. I might like to choose to fly. It is not in my nature to fly. No matter how hard I flap my arms, not matte how much I desire to fly, I cannot do what is an easy thing for most birds, due to differences in our natures.

Read Romans 7. There you see a description of an inability to carry out what one wishes to do. Sin in us is so compelling. Our flesh, our nature, is at war with the spiritual side of us that would desire to please God.

In one verse of that chapter, Paul says:

  14 For we know that the Law is spiritual, but I am of flesh, sold into bondage to sin. 15 For what I am doing, I do not understand; for I am not practicing what I would like to do, but I am doing the very thing I hate.

There again, we see that idea of slavery, not freedom. In verse 18 it says:

18 For I know that nothing good dwells in me, that is, in my flesh. For I have the desire to do what is right,but not the ability to carry it out.

I think that is a  strong indicator, that our will is not as free, as some like to make it.

Thankfully, God gives a new nature, at the new birth. We still, in this life have the old nature, and will as long as we are stuck in these bodies, the body that Paul called the body of death in Roman 7:24:

24 Wretched man that I am! Who will set me free from the body of this death?

In other places, the Bible tells us that no one seeks God, no one does good, etc.

We are told that we are blind, deaf, have hard hearts, are dead in our sins, and are slaves to sin. Basically, because of these things, we will not seek God, we cannot see or hear Him, we have no real understanding, and we are not truly free. We are lost and in desperate need of a savior.

However, God, and God alone, can fix that. We are not drowning, gasping for air, seeking rescue. We are already dead, stuck in the mud at the bottom, and it is God who reaches down, and pulls us up to Him, and breathes life into us.

Then, we are no longer deaf, no longer blind, we can begin to understand the things of God, and hear His voice. Then, we are given a new heart, a heart of flesh, instead of stone. Then we are given freedom, and can resist sin (1 Cor 10:13) and we pursue a life of righteousness, as we are being conformed to the image of His Son. Then, we have crossed over, from death, to life.

Is that enough expansion to give you an idea of what I am talking about?